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(TOR/OTT) - future considerations for Murray + 2023 3rd rd pick + 2024 7th round pick

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11 juill. à 21 h 4
#76
Formerly Jamiepo
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Quoting: sensonfire
It should cost a second to dump Matt Murray, not a third.

And Toronto has no business taking cap dumps.



Ottawa wins the trade.


By a country mile. Dubas should be fired.
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11 juill. à 21 h 10
#77
sensonfire
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Quoting: GenXHockey
By a country mile. Dubas should be fired.


The upside for the Leafs is that they have a couple more picks to spend at the trade deadline.
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11 juill. à 21 h 10
#78
First NY Then LA
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Quoting: aadoyle
I mean does Toronto really care about actual money as MLSE is the 2nd richest organization in the NHL

So if all goes well its pocket change to them


You might be surprised to learn that just because big corporations have lots of cash doesn't mean that they're happy to spend it on what may feel to them like losing operations. Never underestimate the power of the bean counters.

And if I sound unduly cynical, it's because my abysmal expectations of humanity are so seldom disappointed.
11 juill. à 21 h 12
#79
Chad of Chads
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
You might be surprised to learn that just because big corporations have lots of cash doesn't mean that they're happy to spend it on what may feel to them like losing operations. Never underestimate the power of the bean counters.

And if I sound unduly cynical, it's because my abysmal expectations of humanity are so seldom disappointed.


Good things its not MLB or NBA bad. Like man some ass pitchers in the MLB are making more than McDavid tears of joy
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11 juill. à 21 h 12
#80
No regretzkys
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Gotta be honest, I like the idea of Matt Murray and I thought this trade had some real potential with double retention or 50% retention, but man...
4.7mill for Murray is a tough pill to swallow
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11 juill. à 21 h 14
#81
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Quoting: MadLin27
Gotta be honest, I like the idea of Matt Murray and I thought this trade had some real potential with double retention or 50% retention, but man...
4.7mill for Murray is a tough pill to swallow


Its actually 4.68 no round up but I get it. That said Murray was on the right track for Ottawa this year then he had 2 bad games dropped to 0.906 and then got hurt

Cause funny enough in 18 games for the Sens he had a 0.920 SV
11 juill. à 21 h 16
#82
ALjet12
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Quoting: aadoyle
Id be more concerned with Lou trading away Toews for 2 2nds than paying more for Romanov or protecting 4th liners over Eberle


Even though the trade of Toews was a bad trade and is going to haunt the organization for years, Lou didn't have many options when he went into a pandemic no wanted to take on big contracts and had to pay Barzal their #1 center and Pulock the #1 Dman.
Dubas had tons of options for a goalie with ton of time to use at his discretion
11 juill. à 21 h 19
#83
No regretzkys
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I'm just gonna go on record here and say I think Matt Murray is gonna have a really good year with the Leafs.
My only issue is the cost/lack of retention, but again, Murray will bounce back with the Leafs
11 juill. à 21 h 21
#84
Western Champs
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Why did Giordano lowered his salary for again 🤔😄
11 juill. à 21 h 35
#85
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id rather have my nonna run the leafs than this fool
11 juill. à 21 h 36
#86
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Quoting: nintendofan721
Time for another leafs first round exit!


If they even make it there
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11 juill. à 21 h 36
#87
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Dubas is a total MORON
11 juill. à 21 h 37
#88
FireKyle
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Quoting: DongLord23
Dubas is a total MORON


As you said that Matt Murray became Jack Campbell 2.0
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11 juill. à 21 h 43
#89
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It's worth noting Murray's most recent performance on the Senators:


After returning from injury in Jan 2022, he played quite well:

14 games played
2.68 goals against
0.918 save percentage

Murray has also played well in the playoffs for his entire career:

51 games played
2.18 goals against
0.921 save percentage

And he's never had a stretch as bad as Jack Campbell's last 32 games:

30 games played
3.44 goals against
0.886 save percentage

Nor a playoff series under 0.906 SV%. Campbell vs Tampa was 0.897 SV%.
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11 juill. à 21 h 45
#90
couldnt afford 2nd t
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Originally, it was going to cost the Senators extra value to Chicago to dump Murray. This is because Ottawa had a deal to send Murray to Buffalo. As compensation for taking Murray with 25 percent of his salary retained, Ottawa was going to five Buffalo the 7th overall pick for the 16th overall pick. The 1st round pick Ottawa owned was still going to Chicago for Debrincat. Only, it would be the less valuable 16th overall pick. Ottawa was supposed to send Chicago an additional prospect, whose name hasn't leaked.

With the above in mind, it is astounding that Ottawa got away with dumping Murray with the same 25 percent retention, and it only cost them a 3rd and a 7th. They even received Future Considerations!

This is a swing for the fences move by the Leafs. They put themselves in a bad situation by being without a goalie in one of the most challenging off seasons to find a goalie in recent memory. As bad as this pickup might seem, I'd like to see people suggest realistic alternatives. Signing Campbell to a big UFA deal would be worse than taking on Murray for 2 years. Let Edmonton make that mistake. Gibson clearly isn't going to Toronto. At that point, who is their starter going to be, Martin Jones? It seems like there might be options of goalies who have higher floors and much lower ceilings than Murray, but there isn't a clear cut starter available. There is a reason why at least two teams so far have tried to acquire Murray this off season. That reason is the goalie market is brutal, and there are almost no legitimate starters available.

The Leafs seemed to know they were going to move on from Campbell, since they apparently low balled him early in the process. The big lesson here is that they should have done a better job at recognizing how difficult of a market it was going to be for teams needing goalies this off season. They shouldn't have put themselves in a position where they not only have no starting goalie, they have no legitimate backup goalie either.

Once you excuse that, this trade isn't that bad for Toronto. It's the best of a bunch of bad options. When you look at the trade up value they gave up at the draft, and the picks they got back today, while it isn't quite the same, it is close enough that I'd be willing to look at it as a wash in value. They gave up a small amount of draft capital and roughly 1 million per season in cap space to "upgrade" from Mrazek to Murray. They should have gotten a lot more for taking Murray, but Dorion likely recognized the leverage he had over Dubas when he saw his iPhone wallpaper of Matt Murray in a Soo Greyhounds jersey.

Conversely, the Senators side of things is similar. Dorion signed Murray to that terrible contract. He put the team in this position. Once you ignore that and accept that they are in the position of having to dump one of the worst goalie contracts in the league, Dorion did a great job to get out of 75 percent of the contract while only giving up a 3rd and a 7th.

I see a lot of people making fun of the Maple Leafs, as they should, since it is a national right to do so in Canada. I don't see a lot of people make any realistic suggestions of who the Leafs could acquire in net instead of Murray. Most of the options are equally as risky, and don't have the ceiling that Murray has.
11 juill. à 21 h 52
#91
Let's go Pens!
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I can't wait to see Steve Dangle reacting this trade...Lol
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11 juill. à 21 h 54
#92
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Quoting: OutDoorRinkBoy
Absulotely agree. But I think they should still sign someone like Comrie to let Gustavsen develope in the minors for a bit more and then have a better tandom.


The problem with that with Gus on a one way I believe he’s have to clear waivers so there’s a good chance Ottawa loses him for nothing if he doesn’t take the backup spot. Or possibly worse than that is he beats someone like Comrie out for the backup spot and we lose Comrie for nothing.

Bit if a lose lose but if it makes the team better then I’m all for bringing a third goalie in again.
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11 juill. à 21 h 55
#93
couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: MadLin27
Gotta be honest, I like the idea of Matt Murray and I thought this trade had some real potential with double retention or 50% retention, but man...
4.7mill for Murray is a tough pill to swallow


If you want to delude yourself into looking at this positively it's basically:

Marzek (3.800M x 2)+25th 2022 for Murray (4.687M x 2)+38th 2022+2023 OTT 3rd+2024 OTT 7th

Meaning, the Leafs increased their payroll by 887k.

A counter argument would be that they could have spent that 3.8M on different pieces, but the response to that would be which goalie do they realistically acquire? Kuemper is the only legitimate starter, and there is no guarantee he would sign in Toronto when he will have multiple suitors. Campbell is going to get overpaid by virtue of being in the right market at the right time. Gibson's agent roasted the Leafs.

There are no starters rumored to be available in a trade.

d27wZaH.png

That is who is available as of now. Minus Kuemper (already tied to another team), Campbell (EDM), Holtby (retired). So you have Comrie, Jones as the only goalies available who played more than 20 games and had .900+ save percentages last season. Comrie has never played a full season as a starter. Jones is not a starter.

Samsonov is available, but has been underwhelming for years, and is likely to get an inflated AAV based on his potential. Point being, there is nobody who isn't a risk like Murray is. There are players who are cheaper, but their ceiling is much lower.

Dubas put the Leafs in an awful situation goalie wise. They were left as one of the last teams without a goalie in a market where there aren't enough to go around. In that context, this move might have been his best option. Which is why Dorion managed to dump 75 percent of Murray for effectively nothing.
11 juill. à 21 h 56
#94
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If Matt Murray remains healthy, he could bounce back and this will be an amazing deal with Toronto. If not, meh to both sides.
11 juill. à 21 h 56
#95
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Quoting: sensonfire
The upside for the Leafs is that they have a couple more picks to spend at the trade deadline.


There is no upside. Leafs just helped the sens and may now be looking up at them in the standings. If Dorion doesn't **** up on wednesday.
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11 juill. à 22 h 1
#96
couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
The problem with that with Gus on a one way I believe he’s have to clear waivers so there’s a good chance Ottawa loses him for nothing if he doesn’t take the backup spot. Or possibly worse than that is he beats someone like Comrie out for the backup spot and we lose Comrie for nothing.

Bit if a lose lose but if it makes the team better then I’m all for bringing a third goalie in again.


Gustavsson is going to be thrown into a trade for a different player.

Dorion never intended to roll with three goalies. He said he did, but that was a smoke screen. He's been grinding away to GIVE UP assets to dump Matt Murray, who in those same conversations about three goalies, Dorion praised. It is pretty clear the three goalies talk was a smoke screen.

Even if Gustavsson will clear waivers, the Senators do not want to waste nearly a million dollars on Gustavsson playing in the minors. They are rumored to want a stable veteran backup. Mads Sogaard is their goalie of the future, not Gustavsson. They cannot risk losing additional games by developing Gustavsson in the NHL.

Saying they want to bring in another goalie to challenge Gustavsson for the starting job is them being polite. First chance they get, Gustavsson will be dumped as a moving part in a multi-man trade in order to equalize cash.
11 juill. à 22 h 11
#97
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Leafs NEW GM next year will have to buyout Murray.
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11 juill. à 22 h 11
#98
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Quoting: svensk_forskare
the real winner here is connor brown bc everyone thought he was going back to the leafs, but instead he'll be playing in the 2nd round with debrincat and stutzle this year smile


(He's probably still going somewhere)
11 juill. à 22 h 21
#99
Evans truther
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Toronto, it's not even funny anymore.
11 juill. à 22 h 29
#100
This team kills me
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Dorion has fleeced 2 different kyles in 2 different trades within the span of like 5 days
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