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(TOR/OTT) - future considerations for Murray + 2023 3rd rd pick + 2024 7th round pick

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11 juill. à 22 h 39
#101
LetsGoSens
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
The problem with that with Gus on a one way I believe he’s have to clear waivers so there’s a good chance Ottawa loses him for nothing if he doesn’t take the backup spot. Or possibly worse than that is he beats someone like Comrie out for the backup spot and we lose Comrie for nothing.

Bit if a lose lose but if it makes the team better then I’m all for bringing a third goalie in again.


Oh yeah I forgot about that.
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11 juill. à 23 h 12
#102
You know nothing JS
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TML should just be renamed "The Fancy Club of Past Glories".

Dubas is just making moves to get players who used to be good to create a hype amongst fans who will sold out their arena all season long in the hope of passing the first round...
11 juill. à 23 h 14
#103
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Why was a 3rd team not brought in to take another 50% of the contract?
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11 juill. à 23 h 38
#104
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One thing is for sure, either this will make Dubas look like a genius or he'll be gone by this time next year.

Talk about putting all your eggs....errr... magic beans in a basket. If it works, BRAVO. If it doesn't, LMFAO.
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11 juill. à 23 h 42
#105
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This could be the beginning of the end for Dubas. Desperate move
11 juill. à 23 h 49
#106
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Quoting: budgeteam
Gustavsson is going to be thrown into a trade for a different player.

Dorion never intended to roll with three goalies. He said he did, but that was a smoke screen. He's been grinding away to GIVE UP assets to dump Matt Murray, who in those same conversations about three goalies, Dorion praised. It is pretty clear the three goalies talk was a smoke screen.

Even if Gustavsson will clear waivers, the Senators do not want to waste nearly a million dollars on Gustavsson playing in the minors. They are rumored to want a stable veteran backup. Mads Sogaard is their goalie of the future, not Gustavsson. They cannot risk losing additional games by developing Gustavsson in the NHL.

Saying they want to bring in another goalie to challenge Gustavsson for the starting job is them being polite. First chance they get, Gustavsson will be dumped as a moving part in a multi-man trade in order to equalize cash.


Time will tell but I think he’s much more than a throw in for a bigger deal. He looked great the season before this one and for a while him and Dac were looking the part of the goalie of the future. They kept him over Dac for a reason and one down year shouldn’t be reason to oust him.

He was handed the one way for a reason as well. Let’s see how he plays in camp before passing judgment. He does well with a structured defence in front of him and if Ottawa can add Marino/Weegar/Chychrun/Manson then this would be far and away the best core he’s ever had in front of him.

There’s a future in which Mads and Gus could both be manning the crease for the Sens.
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12 juill. à 0 h 5
#107
Hockey God Genius
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All I have to say is..........................................................................


OUCH
12 juill. à 0 h 50
#108
couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
Time will tell but I think he’s much more than a throw in for a bigger deal. He looked great the season before this one and for a while him and Dac were looking the part of the goalie of the future. They kept him over Dac for a reason and one down year shouldn’t be reason to oust him.

He was handed the one way for a reason as well. Let’s see how he plays in camp before passing judgment. He does well with a structured defence in front of him and if Ottawa can add Marino/Weegar/Chychrun/Manson then this would be far and away the best core he’s ever had in front of him.

There’s a future in which Mads and Gus could both be manning the crease for the Sens.


He will be a throw in, because there is no trade market for him, and the Senators don't want to waste 825k in salary for him not to play with their NHL club.

That doesn't mean it is impossible that he doesn't find is game else where and become an NHLer. Chris Driedger was released by Ottawa, worked his way back up through the ECHL and AHL, and became an NHL goalie. There are numerous examples where that has happened.

The point is that the timing is wrong for the Senators to continue his development, and there probably is not a trade market for him. If there is a trade market, it will be a nothing pick like a 4th to 7th rounder, or a nothing prospect that comes back.

I assume the Senators are only holding on to him until they are sure they have another goalie coming in. Then he will somehow be moved out. If he is still a Senators come training camp, and they acquire another goalie before then, it means there was zero market for him in a trade.
12 juill. à 3 h 24
#109
No regretzkys
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Quoting: GenXHockey
There is no upside. Leafs just helped the sens and may now be looking up at them in the standings. If Dorion doesn't **** up on wednesday.


Sorry but this is laughable.
Sens are on a great trajectory, but they aren't close to Toronto right now.
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12 juill. à 6 h 35
#110
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Quoting: Random2152
Wow if that's the kind of loss that makes you stop cheering for a team maybe hockey's not for you eh bud?

I just stopped cheering for them because they can’t ever make it past the first round I’ve been cheering for them since 2009. I just wanted to cheer for a new team.
12 juill. à 7 h 12
#111
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Quoting: GenXHockey
There is no upside. Leafs just helped the sens and may now be looking up at them in the standings. If Dorion doesn't **** up on wednesday.


Alright, I may hate this trade, but let's just relax here a little bit.
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12 juill. à 9 h 32
#112
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This is not the answer I was expecting from Dubas. Toronto above many teams needs Elite Exceptional goaltending with its marginally adequate defence. Couple premium goaltending with its loaded offence then it contends for Cups. Kind of a big gamble on a win now team to go with a goalie you hope makes a comeback to previous form.. Kuemper or Campbell even though a bit of a stretch is what I’d like to see for the Leafs right now.
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12 juill. à 9 h 47
#113
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I liked the idea of targeting Murray, but it was because it was an opportunity to have All of the leverage. There is no sure fire good bet in this goalie market. I don't think the Georgiev deal was a better use of assets, Campbell getting #1 money despite severe volatility and never playing over 40 games is a bad risk, Keumper's getting even more after a weak playoff hampered by a scary eye injury isn't enticing, so I get the idea of buying very low on Murray or getting some significant assets to take a shorter term bet, but Dubas fell in love with Murray as a player rather than falling in love with the idea of making a smart bet where he could extract max value.

Had the Leafs managed to get Murray for free at a $2.5M cap hit or lower by forcing Ottawa to pay assets to a 3rd team for retention, then great. Had Dubas gotten significantly more value in futures for taking on Murray than was reported on the table for Buffalo, then again, acceptable. Getting significantly less than a deal that was nixed, that's throwing away assets.

Ottawa does well here. The money matters as much as the cap hit, and they got out from under approximately $11M in real dollars over the next couple of years, and they did so without giving up much of anything. Dorion was up against a wall. We know what he was prepared to do to move Murray, we know after taking on Debrincat's salary along with future QO that his motivation level should have gone up and not down, and we know that there was basically no competition for this deal. Despite all of that, Dorion negotiates the price to take on Murray downward, and somehow creates enough Urgency that Dubas pulls the trigger early, despite the fact Dubas could easily have circled back later. So what if one of Washington or Edmonton makes the deal first, that just means you are one of the two teams bidding for one of the two starters. Let one of those teams take themselves out of the running if that's the case, and then you can squeeze whichever UFA doesn't get the biggest deal.

This is the deal you make when all other options are completely off the table. Ottawa wins, and Toronto takes a worthy gamble, but doesn't get paid even close to enough of a risk premium to do so.
12 juill. à 10 h 15
#114
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The more I think about this trade, the more I hate it.

Dubas should have gotten Ottawa's 2023 2nd on top of what they did get in this deal, and even then it's underwhelming, but the 2nd should have been automatically included to even start the framework. That 2nd has some additional importance, because now Ottawa has the cap space, and a 2nd, which they can easily use to offersheet Sandin at around $4M per, which Toronto probably has to walk away from.

Can you imagine if Dorian uses the 2nd that he managed to keep to turn around and get Sandin ? That possibility existing alone is a reason you should have demanded that 2nd. I kind of want to see Dorian do it.
12 juill. à 10 h 31
#115
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Quoting: Danny12357
I liked the idea of targeting Murray, but it was because it was an opportunity to have All of the leverage. There is no sure fire good bet in this goalie market. I don't think the Georgiev deal was a better use of assets, Campbell getting #1 money despite severe volatility and never playing over 40 games is a bad risk, Keumper's getting even more after a weak playoff hampered by a scary eye injury isn't enticing, so I get the idea of buying very low on Murray or getting some significant assets to take a shorter term bet, but Dubas fell in love with Murray as a player rather than falling in love with the idea of making a smart bet where he could extract max value.

Had the Leafs managed to get Murray for free at a $2.5M cap hit or lower by forcing Ottawa to pay assets to a 3rd team for retention, then great. Had Dubas gotten significantly more value in futures for taking on Murray than was reported on the table for Buffalo, then again, acceptable. Getting significantly less than a deal that was nixed, that's throwing away assets.

Ottawa does well here. The money matters as much as the cap hit, and they got out from under approximately $11M in real dollars over the next couple of years, and they did so without giving up much of anything. Dorion was up against a wall. We know what he was prepared to do to move Murray, we know after taking on Debrincat's salary along with future QO that his motivation level should have gone up and not down, and we know that there was basically no competition for this deal. Despite all of that, Dorion negotiates the price to take on Murray downward, and somehow creates enough Urgency that Dubas pulls the trigger early, despite the fact Dubas could easily have circled back later. So what if one of Washington or Edmonton makes the deal first, that just means you are one of the two teams bidding for one of the two starters. Let one of those teams take themselves out of the running if that's the case, and then you can squeeze whichever UFA doesn't get the biggest deal.

This is the deal you make when all other options are completely off the table. Ottawa wins, and Toronto takes a worthy gamble, but doesn't get paid even close to enough of a risk premium to do so.


I have to agree, the return here is very underwhelming.

I have a feeling they probably did try to get a third team to retain, it's possible that neither side would agree to pay the third team.

The plus is that Murray's contract ends at the time as Matthews and Nylander. If they inked Campbell to the contract he's asking for, it would have been an issue getting AM and WN extended in two years. So there's a positive there.

I find it ironic that everyone is praising Dorion for getting rid of the ugly contract he signed, but Dubas gets ridiculed for offloading a bad contract he signed. Standard TOR hate. You could make the argument that Dorion gave up less to get rid of Murray than Dubas did with Mrazek, but we'd be splitting hairs on the value.

At the end of the day, this is Dubas' big gamble. If Murray turns it around and stays healthy, Dubas looks like a genius. If not, his job may be on the line. Only time will tell.
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12 juill. à 10 h 34
#116
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Quoting: mondo
Well, this is it. I've been a Leafs fan for about 10, maybe 11 years now, but I can't take this stupid trade. The team had so much promise with their core, but acquiring Matt Murray seals the deal. The trade could've been better! I really think it could've been! But Kyle Dumbas doesn't know how to work the phones properly and he got ****ed hard by Ottawa. This stinks. I'm packing my **** and going to Arizona where they know how to run a team. Nice knowing you.


lol Bye we dont want you as a fan anyways.
12 juill. à 10 h 43
#117
too dumb to log off
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Quoting: python3504
lol Bye we dont want you as a fan anyways.


the joke understander has logged on
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12 juill. à 11 h 31
#118
couldnt afford 2nd t
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Quoting: SlicedCheese
Why was a 3rd team not brought in to take another 50% of the contract?


The cost may have been too high for Toronto.

Teams only get 3 retention slots. They need these at the deadline to move pending UFAs. Matt Murray would eat up a slot for two seasons.

It also likely makes it difficult that Murray's salary is higher than his cap hit. Teams like Buffalo or Arizona want contracts with salaries lower than their cap hit. That way, they hit the floor with less real money paid.

Ultimately, Toronto subsidized Murray's cap mostly by dumping Mrazek.
12 juill. à 12 h 29
#119
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This deal stinks....for both teams.
Assuming the Sens get nothing (maybe a switch of picks in the same round?, otherwise why the throw in of a 7th?)....I wouldve thought Murray wouldve had some value to a team thats not competing this year, and needs to spend $$ and needs a goalie- like Buffalo,Arizona- maybe San Jose, with Ottawa retaining more salary for a pick or prospect- or possible short term dead weight contract.

The only way this deal made sense for the Leafs- is with 50% retained, otherwise this is just Mrazek 2.0 only with a bigger cap hit.
Theyre still paying more for an oft-injured hasnt been good in 4 years Murray than Detroit just signed Husso for.... I wouldve taken Husso in a heartbeat over Murray. Major fail on Dubas.
12 juill. à 12 h 48
#120
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So when Murray goes on a 5 game win streak and the Toronto fans and media starts touting him for the Vezina...you know the groin injury is just around the corner, just like last season where they would have you believe that Campbell was one of the top 3 goalies in the league.
12 juill. à 13 h 14
#121
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God damn Dorion, you’re making every other GM look like chumps this off-season!
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12 juill. à 13 h 27
#122
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After much reflection I’ve changed my mind about the Murray trade. This guy has so much passion he basically bleeds blue, and we got him for nothing?? And better yet, we have him for two years?? My last rant was nothing short of some crybaby vent because we got a player I perceived to be bad, but passion/60 is the ONLY stat that matters and if this guy is gonna bring that every night you can SIGN ME UP!
12 juill. à 13 h 30
#123
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Quoting: mondo
After much reflection I’ve changed my mind about the Murray trade. This guy has so much passion he basically bleeds blue, and we got him for nothing?? And better yet, we have him for two years?? My last rant was nothing short of some crybaby vent because we got a player I perceived to be bad, but passion/60 is the ONLY stat that matters and if this guy is gonna bring that every night you can SIGN ME UP!


Stop it, you're going to make a believer out of me.
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12 juill. à 13 h 37
#124
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I don’t get this for Toronto. They get rid of their bad signing (Mrazek), only to take on Ottawa’s bad signing (Murray) at a higher cap hit. Hopefully both of these goalies benefit from the change of scenery and regain their former glory, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

If Campbell and Kuemper want too much term, then I can understand the Leafs not wanting to sign them, but I find it difficult to believe that Murray was their best trade option. They don’t have a proven backup either, so that seems doubly risky, unless they’re still looking.

For Ottawa, this is a small price to pay to get rid of most of the financial responsibility for two more years of a player who hasn’t worked out for them.
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12 juill. à 14 h 25
#125
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Quoting: Ritzy
Alright, I may hate this trade, but let's just relax here a little bit.


Dorion just got another 4.7m to do damage in FA. It cost him nothing. I stand by my statement.
 
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