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St. Louis Blues signed Jordan Kyrou (8 Years / $8,125,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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13 sept. à 16 h 30
#51
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Quoting: Tarlam01
Suzuki*


A side effect of younger players with less games/points getting long term deals in the 7-9 million dollar range is that in every single contract signing thread we're going to have a ton of people being skeptical of the contract and that team's fanbase vigorously defending it. Repeat ad-nauseum for every subsequent contract.
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13 sept. à 16 h 32
#52
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Quoting: Ritzy
STL seem to be the kings of matching contracts.

Kyrou/Thomas
Schenn/Faulk/Krug/Parayko
ROR/Tarasenko


Straight facts
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13 sept. à 16 h 52
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Quoting: jr400
Another huge contract after only one good season. This makes Tage Thompson look like a bargain.


Prior to last season Thompson had 18 goals and 35 points in 145 GP
Over 82 thats the equivalent of 10 goals and 20 points a year. ie a 4th liner

Kyrou had 19 goals and 47 pts in 99 games
Over 82 thats the equivalent of 15 g and 39 pts
He also had good second line numbers the year before. Thompson's is more of an outlier, Kyrou a normal progression
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13 sept. à 16 h 55
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Try not paying a fringe 1st liner around 8mil challenge is clearly impossible


If he's a "fringe 1st liner" what does that say about montreal? The last time a Montreal player has had 75 or more points (what Kyrou got last year) was Kovalev in 2007-2008 with 84 points. Koivu had 75 in 2006/2007

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20052006&seasonTo=20212022&gameType=2&playerPlayedFor=franchise.1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50
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13 sept. à 16 h 59
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Quoting: Random2152
If you haven't figured out how big the cap jump is going to be this should really have you clueing in by now with another one of these 8 year mega bet deals.

If your team has signed a high profile bridge deal this year, (or is likely going to DALLAS) you're in for a bad time.


When will it start?
13 sept. à 17 h 0
#56
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Crazy... all these mega 8 year contracts after 1 good season...

Maybe teams think the cap will go way up or are just desperate to find value contracts.
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13 sept. à 17 h 7
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Quoting: yikes
Cant wait to see the praise for this deal compared to the criticisms of Stutzle's.


In your opinion ...


Is Kyrou's 75 points in 74 games (1.01 ppg)


better or worse than


Stutzle's 58 points in 79 games (0.73 ppg)?


And do you have an opinion on who got paid more?
13 sept. à 17 h 22
#58
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Quoting: BCAPP
If he's a "fringe 1st liner" what does that say about montreal? The last time a Montreal player has had 75 or more points (what Kyrou got last year) was Kovalev in 2007-2008 with 84 points. Koivu had 75 in 2006/2007

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?aggregate=0&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20052006&seasonTo=20212022&gameType=2&playerPlayedFor=franchise.1&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists&page=0&pageSize=50


Kyrou's had one season there, i voted yes but there's no guarantees Kyrou hits point per game again, i"d be willing to bet he becomes a consistent 60+ point guy, maybe 70 point guy
13 sept. à 17 h 22
#59
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Quoting: drewjenkins
In your opinion ...


Is Kyrou's 75 points in 74 games (1.01 ppg)


better or worse than


Stutzle's 58 points in 79 games (0.73 ppg)?


And do you have an opinion on who got paid more?


Stutzle's also younger and has a higher ceiling, they're not comparables
13 sept. à 17 h 36
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Quoting: yikes
Cant wait to see the praise for this deal compared to the criticisms of Stutzle's.


They really aren't comparable at all though. One of them is the team betting on the upside of a 20 year old C the other is a 24 year old winger cashing in after a monster season. Very different situations imo.
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13 sept. à 18 h 10
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Quoting: drewjenkins
In your opinion ...


Is Kyrou's 75 points in 74 games (1.01 ppg)


better or worse than


Stutzle's 58 points in 79 games (0.73 ppg)?


And do you have an opinion on who got paid more?




I mean, obviously Kyrou had a much better season than Stützle, I don't think anyone would really dispute that. I don't really understand why one compares to the other though. 24 year old winger vs 20 year old centre, two players at different positions and different stages of their career. If you wanted to compare them at the same age, Stützle scored 22G, 58pts while Kyrou was a 39G, 109P junior player.

The better comparison for either player was the Thomas contract. Stützle because he's an actual centre coming off the kind of production you're probably betting on Stützle being able to reach if you're Ottawa(1.1 P/GP). Kyrou because obviously those two are good comparables for one another, they've been on the same team and been compared their whole careers, and had very similar production.
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13 sept. à 18 h 40
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Quoting: drewjenkins
In your opinion ...


Is Kyrou's 75 points in 74 games (1.01 ppg)


better or worse than


Stutzle's 58 points in 79 games (0.73 ppg)?


And do you have an opinion on who got paid more?


Quoting: Claesson4Norris
They really aren't comparable at all though. One of them is the team betting on the upside of a 20 year old C the other is a 24 year old winger cashing in after a monster season. Very different situations imo.



I’m not criticizing either deal - I’m just saying I thought this deal would be praised more.

Which is odd as I was wrong, tho I thought Kyrou would be loved, cause it’s actually much more criticized.

I like both deals for both teams and both players. I personally voted “Yes” on both polls. I just had believed this would be praised more, but I was wrong.

I think both teams getting criticism for the deals is a pretty bland take. You gotta pay players you believe in/ that prove it. Both kids have proved they star, and I mean star potential. Any team would have given these deals out based on the projection of the cap and the deals handed out recently.
13 sept. à 19 h 38
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So this is what Nic Robertson's next contract will look like.

Because................

























Everything has to connect to the Maple Leafs somehow.
13 sept. à 19 h 48
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
JT Miller's new deal kicks in when he's 30 as oppose to age 31, very important distinction


It kicks in the year (as in season) that he turns 31. It kicks in next season. He will be 30 at the start of the season, and 31 in March.

Regardless, it's not a big distinction.
13 sept. à 22 h 59
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Quoting: drewjenkins
When will it start?


Quoting: dopplsan
Good point with all of these contracts.

When are they expecting the cap to jump? I thought I read the expectation was 1-2 more seasons of “flat” cap, then it’ll start catching up.


Pretty much the instant the MoU expires we are going to see a 90+ million dollar cap thanks to 5 million per year cap expansion. Revenues have been skyrocketing around the league. 2 years sounds about right off the top of my head so any long term contract will be factoring that in.

It means MacKinnon will be thinking about a 100 million dollar cap during his contract negotiations.
So will Matthews.
Then McDavid.

We are about to see some WILD contracts.

As I said, bad time to sign a high profile bridge deal (NJD, DAL, Etc)
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13 sept. à 23 h 0
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Quoting: budgeteam
It kicks in the year (as in season) that he turns 31. It kicks in next season. He will be 30 at the start of the season, and 31 in March.

Regardless, it's not a big distinction.


He'll turn 31 towards the end of the 23-24 season, but by then, the season will already by three quarters of the way finished, and a single year of term in a long-term deal that takes a player into their mid thirties is not insignificant
13 sept. à 23 h 20
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19 of 27 goals on the powerplay. If a team didnt allow rookies on the powerplay would they get paid the same?

Also, in the Stutzle comparison you are comparing a Center to a Winger. The Center will win everytime. Also look at who Kyrou was playing with last year vs who Stutzle was playing with, not all lines are equal.
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13 sept. à 23 h 44
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
He'll turn 31 towards the end of the 23-24 season, but by then, the season will already by three quarters of the way finished, and a single year of term in a long-term deal that takes a player into their mid thirties is not insignificant


Okay, call him 30, it really doesn't change the context of the point, which is that JT Millers AAV is deflated because his contract runs through less of his prime.
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14 sept. à 0 h 1
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Quoting: budgeteam
Okay, call him 30, it really doesn't change the context of the point, which is that JT Millers AAV is deflated because his contract runs through less of his prime.


That's why age 30 and 31 years are such an important distinction, one which you were getting wrong
14 sept. à 0 h 14
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Quoting: SlicedCheese
19 of 27 goals on the powerplay. If a team didnt allow rookies on the powerplay would they get paid the same?

Also, in the Stutzle comparison you are comparing a Center to a Winger. The Center will win everytime. Also look at who Kyrou was playing with last year vs who Stutzle was playing with, not all lines are equal.


Hmm.

1- Kyrou had 5 of his 27 goals on the PP. No clue where you got the idea he had 19.

2- The center wins every time? Huh?
14 sept. à 2 h 7
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Quoting: drambui
logged in just to like your comment


Same haha
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14 sept. à 6 h 0
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Quoting: Random2152
Pretty much the instant the MoU expires we are going to see a 90+ million dollar cap thanks to 5 million per year cap expansion. Revenues have been skyrocketing around the league. 2 years sounds about right off the top of my head so any long term contract will be factoring that in.

It means MacKinnon will be thinking about a 100 million dollar cap during his contract negotiations.
So will Matthews.
Then McDavid.

We are about to see some WILD contracts.

As I said, bad time to sign a high profile bridge deal (NJD, DAL, Etc)


Reminds me of 2016 when the NBA salary cap blew up over one off-season.

Prepare yourself not just for the stupid money Matthews will be getting, but for a whole new generation of David Clarkson level awful contracts.
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14 sept. à 8 h 11
#73
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
Krug and Faulk both got 7 years at 6.5M AAV per, while Parayko and Schenn got 8 years at 6.5M AAV per, so two and two

Also, O'Reilly got 7 years of term, while Taresenko got 8 years, same AAV of course. I'd say 1 more or 1 less year of term is rather significant in these contexts


You must be fun at parties.
14 sept. à 10 h 1
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Quoting: yikes
Cant wait to see the praise for this deal compared to the criticisms of Stutzle's.


No they both suck!!!
14 sept. à 16 h 23
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Matthews is getting max. The big questions is whether he goes long term, or whether be signs 1-3 years. His contract likely expires a bit too early to take advantage of the exploding cap. If he signs 1-3 years, he can sign again at max for his big 8 year retirement contract. It shouldn't be a problem either way because Arizona will have loads of cap space.

MacKinnon won't get max if he stays with Colorado. 13M x 8 years would age fine for them, but might require a bit of shuffling in the short term.

McDavid should get max. He probably learned his lesson about taking discounts last time around. That taking a discount is pointless because you can't stop your team from potentially signing bad contracts with the extra space.

Makar is another one to watch out for. He is separating himself from the rest of the league in terms of comparables.
 
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