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Forum: Trade Machine Proposals24 jui à 12 h 42
Sujet: Pittsburgh Solves its Seattle Expansion Problem
<a href="/users/HabsFan9" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@HabsFan9</a> Man this is Deja vu... How you mean though that we've already decided Murray is gone? I'm not sure they've done that yet, although it is the same predicament that made us pay Vegas to take Fleury in the last expansion draft... can't keep both and one is clearly more expensive.

This time it's different because Fleury was clearly still really good and a bona fide #1. Jarry, while good in a small sample size, is yet unproven in an expanded role.

<a href="/users/willdog37" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@willdog37</a> But dude, you are way overvaluing Jarry in this deal. CGY would want him, 100%, but holy ****. Without JJ in this trade, that's still a big time overpay. You put Riikola in for JJ and maybe a pick of our own to compensate for the lost picks and maybe we have something we can work with.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals23 jui à 8 h 20
Sujet: TOR gets their 1 D-man
Well Toronto is too cap strapped to want to do anything like this, even with 50% retention.

On the other hand LA would probably never want to do this either, as they JUST signed that deal.

I have to agree with <a href="/users/Nighthawk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Nighthawk</a> too because Iafallo has shown some promise and raised his ceiling this past season.

Ceci being a UFA takes him out of this deal entirely.

If there weren't so many factors surrounding it, on paper, it's not a bad swap, but Doughty is overvalued by LA. I'm not sure the rest of the league feels the same way. Nylander on the other hand is actually quite a good young forward and he has chemistry with the teams other young offensive stars. If Doughty wasn't signed for another 7 (!!) years this might actually work, but Nylander, Holl and a 1st seems to be a bit much.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals22 jui à 5 h 54
Sujet: Hughes Reunited Pt2
<a href="/users/Nighthawk" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Nighthawk</a> My thinking was that, on paper, those 3 pieces without the first DO make sense, but to get the #1 pick from last year this early in his career, you kind of have to overpay, at least a little bit. The thing is though VAN is a win now team and if they pulled this off, it would be a huge boost for the organization.

They would have to figure out where Hughes fits in, but coming from one of the worst teams in the league to a true contender stacked with role models, young players, and his brother... you'd think he would probably figure it out. Or Travis Green would at least.

<a href="/users/Kotkaniemi15" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Kotkaniemi15</a> NJ would do this for a number of reasons, but mainly to be nice to Jack so he could play with his brother.

I find it interesting you say these players are just "ok", because that's completely and utterly missing the point.

Gaudette and Virtanen are everyday NHL players at the time of this writing, coming into RFA status this offseason. They both have legitimate potential, with a couple seasons before their true primes hit. This Devils team is going to suck again next year, which would be a huge opportunity for these guys to get paid and prove they belong in the league. I could see Ruff playing both of these guys big time minutes and in more varied situations. Sure they could both fail, but with the added motivation and opportunity I don't find that likely.

So directly in the now, NJ might be getting 2 (not 3) ok NHL players in this deal, but they have high ceilings that if fulfilled, would mean both graduated from ok to good. And while it's an outside shot, they could also both be really good one day. Both of them.

You have to take that into account looking at this deal as these are both far from finished players on the ice who are still under team control.

Nighthawk actually already pointed out reasonable expectations for both of them above.

The other player you were talking about, Juolevi, is a far from finished piece. He is not an NHL player right now. So to deem him OK makes no sense, because we have no idea what he is at the NHL level. He has done decent enough in the AHL from my scope at his numbers, but this is a guy who was picked #5 in 2016 over guys at his position like Sergachev, McAvoy, Chychrun, and Girard, all who have NHL jobs at legit salaries. What does that mean? Could be nothing. Could be that he is the second coming of Nick Lidstrom. We don't know. But he is a super valuable prospect, and if he pans out, and those other two ok guys become good, then this trade has already paid for itself.

Which brings me to the 1st rd pick. I don't understand why you would devalue that and say "late first" because we have no idea where that pick will land whatsoever. But the thing is, it doesn't matter. Sure a crap team's 1st would be better, but in general 1sts are incredibly valuable in today's NHL. Even if Fitzgerald didn't want to use the pick itself, it would allow him to do some very interesting trades if he wanted to. To gain market flexibility on a team with tons of cap space is desirable.

A more accurate way to put what you said would be to call it a mid to late 1st, and since we don't know at all where it will land, yours is a very short sighted assessment.

To illustrate this point, let's look back to 2015. This was the last draft class that, right now with 100% certainty, we can say was completely loaded. Funnily enough it might also go down as the worst moment in Boston draft history which I find to be quite amusing. Imagine if they had picked Barzal and Connor with DeBrusk!! But that's besides the point. From pick 15 down we have these players selected: Barzal (16), Connor (17), Boeser (23), Konecny (24), and Beauvillier (28). That's 4 super good NHL players and one who could be soon.

For perspective, Barzal, Connor, and Boeser were all much, much better in their rookie years than Jack Hughes was. Barzal won the Calder and Boeser was a finalist who got injured. Hughes couldn't even come close to a whiff of the Calder this year.

Not to take anything away from the young man, but if we are going to be honest, Jack Hughes just had the worst rookie season of a #1 overall pick since Nail Yakupov's rookie season in '12. And also, Yak's rookie year was WAY better than Hughes' just was. So the biggest #1 overall draft bust of the past decade had a MUCH better rookie year than Hughes just did.

Let that sink in.

Sure he was the #1 pick, but #2 Kappo Kakko also had a dirt rookie season on a stacked Rangers team. It's quite early, but the 2019 draft class might have just been a bad one.

That is a legitimate risk at this point, and while again it is early, I feel like the chances of those 4 pieces being better over time is pretty high. Especially if they use the pick correctly and sign the RFAs to smart deals.

If Jack Hughes had just put up a Crosby like 100+ P in his first year, this is a moot discussion. But he basically just did the opposite of that.

So why does NJ do this trade? Take your pick

A. It would be nice to see Jack play with Quinn for their entire careers on a team that just had their super star brothers retire not too long ago. Or in other words, compassion.
B. Players acquired benefit their TEAM.
C. Market Flexibility
D. Draft Capital
E. More is (sometimes) better in a team sport like hockey

My answer is
F. All of the effing above
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals21 jui à 13 h 39
Sujet: Buf Pit redo see comment
<a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@MJCrv</a></a> TBH as a Pens fan, I'm with you on not wanting Murray, and it sucks to say that; he's just been way too inconsistent since Fleury left. That doesn't mean you couldn't get legit value for him, it just means that I personally am not the biggest fan. Getting him in a trade is a long term commitment as well and he is due for a fat raise. Overall, I hope they trade him over Jarry, and that's saying something. But league wide I'd imagine he would carry more value due to his playoff success and great numbers a couple of seasons ago, although as a GM I would be extremely hesitant to give him a deal over 3 years, and even that would be tough for me. You know he is going to want 5+.

<a href="/users/reelkena" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@reelkena</a> Like I said, I'm biased, but I do like this trade for the Pens. Montour is a question mark, and if he sucks, then this deal falls apart quick. For me I would be willing to sign him to another short term deal, but in todays NHL, what follows from a bridge deal is usually a more legitimate long term one. Much like with Murray, I'd be hesitant to give Montour a deal like that, but if somebody has watched a lot of him and has an opinion (maybe <a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@MJCrv</a></a>) I'd be all ears.

Either way, you're right, and Mittlestadt is rather inconsequential. Maybe he has a resurgence under Sullivan but it looks more like the kid just wasn't as good as his draft position. It happens. Johansson though, is interesting to me. He just had a solid AF playoffs for Boston last season. He is on an expiring deal. And if he got traded to us we would most likely not honor his trade protection. So if he sucked, we could flip him at the deadline to a team on the bubble, but if he was good, we might get another banner. Low key would be happy to have him here, he'd be the most legit 3C we had since Bonino left.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals21 jui à 13 h 28
Sujet: Johnny Hockeys New Home
<a href="/users/LetsGoPens29" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@LetsGoPens29</a> Well Riikola has legit NHL minutes and could slot into a bottom pairing role there no problem. CGY is a win now team so I took that into consideration; they would most likely want legit roster players as opposed to futures.

Bjugstad, while clearly injured a bunch this past season, is also a legit NHL player, even if he is a little bit underwhelming when you look at his numbers. He would also be on an expiring deal. Looking back at this trade I would say we might have to retain a little of salary to move Byoogs at this point, just because he's been so injured, but before that, we could have gotten a 2/3 rd pick for him no problem.

Should have moved him before the season but Rutherford didn't shop him enough. That was a mistake. Granted, I also thought they should have looked into trading Rust before the season, so hindsight is assuredly 20/20.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals20 jui à 20 h 28
Sujet: Hughes Reunited
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Kotkaniemi15</b></div><div>First off, neither of the Hughes brothers (that are currently in the NHL) are getting traded.

As for the Subban &amp; a 1st part, the price for Marleau’s $6.5 million was a first, so Subban’s $9 million total should cost at least that. And this draft is overhyped, just like every single draft before it happens. There are good players, but this is just an average draft like any other. The sky certainly is not the limit with 2 1st rounders. 2 1sts gets you Blake Coleman, not a franchise player in Quinn Hughes. For Subban you’re looking at a 3rd of Hughes’s production, with way more defensive mistakes. The only team where Subban could be an effective defenseman is where a team is so deep on D that they can shelter Subban to only PP time and offensive zone starts against the other team’s worst players.

And adding Boeser would make this deal even worse.

I think you’re vastly overvaluing the 1sts, and vastly undervaluing Quinn Hughes.</div></div>

I think you're vastly undervaluing draft capital, PK Subban, the market in general, and VAN's need to sign other players.

First off, I guess you missed the part where I said NJ should retain salary. I'd say, to pull this off, they could even go upwards of 60% retention. Subban for 2 years at 4M or less is totally workable. What you just said about Subban putting up a 3rd of Hughes production is an opinion; the guy was a Norris finalist 2 seasons ago and his career numbers are really good, both analytically and traditionally.

He's also noticeably better throughout his career defensively than Hughes was in his first season. Look it up. Hughes is a much more offensively inclined D than Subban with about a 50/50 split for his career split between O and D zones, compared to Hughes 58/42. As you can see, Subban is much less reliant on starting in the O zone than Quinn is.

For you to sit here and say that he is that bad on D is silly. If he sucks this year so be it, but first year on NJ and they were a dumpster fire of a team. If you don't think he could quarterback the VAN PP you're kidding yourself.

So you're analysis of Subban is just wrong. He is not that bad whatsoever. He still plays over 22 minutes a night like he has his entire career and he still can put up numbers in the right situation. He is included in this trade because he is the best option on NJ to fill Hughes spot and VAN is still a win now team.

Next, for you to say this draft is overhyped beforehand like they all are is just wrong. Some classes are noticeably weaker, and some are stronger. I remember, in 2012, that it was said to be a fairly weak year. Looking back that was a true assessment. I don't know enough about this one to say that it is legitimately good or bad, but I've heard more than once that this was supposed to be an especially deep class.

But whatever, it's still 2 1st round picks. They don't have to use them, and other teams would love to get them.

So with the retention of Subban by NJ, VAN also gets more cap space with this trade. That would be another plus of doing it, because they have a bunch of players they need to resign, both this offseason and over the next couple.

They get draft capital, cap room, and TWO players who can help the team in this trade. Subban would slot in for most, if not all, of Hughes minutes right away. Surrounded by supreme offensive talent, he would probably have a resurgent year.

Ty Smith, who you completely ignored, was a former 1st round pick who could potentially slot into a top 4 role in the next 2-3 years. He is by no means a throw in as he has legitimate promise.

I am certainly not overrating the 1sts, I am simply treating them as the league treats them: as highly valuable pieces to building a team. What if NJ took one of the later ones away, and included theirs instead, slated at #7? Would that make a difference? It should; I chose not to include that one because of how much they were already giving up for Hughes. I look at it like this.

Ty Smith, PK Subban at 45-80% retention and 2 1sts for Hughes. That seems fair to me honestly.

And that has nothing to do with me undervaluing Quinn.

That's a legitimate package for anybody in the league. When was the last time you saw 2 1st round picks traded for anybody, now that I think of it?

Subban isn't a throw in. He had a bad year on a bad team. It happens.

Eriksson is a throw in because to make this deal NJ has to take him off their hands.

So you couple that package with the cap freedom of no more Eriksson and it's a fair deal.

But of course I get why VAN wouldn't do it, because they love Quinn and he's young af.

That's why this is a fake trade on a website.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals20 jui à 12 h 07
Sujet: Hughes Reunited
<a href="/users/reelkena" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@reelkena</a> I thought about that; if anybody had brought up a trade for Crosby or Malkin in 2007 or 8 I'd of been like "you don't trade those types of players"

I wasn't sure if Quinn was in that ballpark, but after the year he had and being a Calder finalist, I figured he probably was.

When it comes to Subban, Jersey could go ham and literally retain upwards of 50%. Two years of PK at 4.5M does not sound bad to me, but they might be able to get it down to like 3M. Plus the VAN PP is nasty so he might be able to find a resurgence there.

If you're trying to retain Tanev, that's where this can become more of a salary dump for VAN as well. On their end throw in whoever is willing to waive their NTC of Sutter, Roussel, Beagle, and any of Benn, Stecher, Virtanen or whoever else they'd feel comfortable moving.

You're a Nucks fan. This is about to be a tough offseason for Benning when it comes to signings. It's not fair but Luongo retiring actually really jacked up your cap situation in some crucial years...
But then again so did signing Sutter, Beagle, and Roussel to long term deals
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals20 jui à 11 h 54
Sujet: Hughes Reunited
<a href="/users/Kotkaniemi15" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Kotkaniemi15</a> At first I had more involved but when I looked at it I was like "This seems like a lot"

I also had Boeser involved but decided to take him out. You could add him into this and have Palmieri coming back, another draft pick, or Bratt, McLeod, Wood, Gusev, you name it.

This IS a stacked draft class as well.

I know Subban had a **** year but you have to think he could fill in at least 50% of Hughes point production for the remainder of his deal.

But I haven't seen Hughes play really. I just know he's super good and has fantastic passing vision.

What about the other way then, do we think Jersey might trade Jack?

Either way those 2 1st rounders DO have tons of value league wide; the NHL loves their 1st round picks. If VAN wanted to turn around and use them to try and get somebody else in a deal, like do another Tampa steal with Johnson, Palat, Point or maybe somebody like Rakell from ANA, they'd be able to.

Skies the limit when you have 2 1st rounders to use in trades.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals20 jui à 5 h 28
Sujet: Its exactly fine
<a href="/users/MJCrv" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@MJCrv</a> I'm not a BUF fan but their most glaring need is certainly in net. They have a bunch of forwards who underperformed this year, but if you're Adams you have to expect them to play better next year or trade the ones you don't think will fit.

You say you need forwards, but there was, and is, talk of trading Sam Reinhart, who is one of the only other productive forwards on the roster besides Eichel.

The blueline is mediocre at best, but you can take Risto and turn him into a forward, or any of their guys besides Dahlin really (Miller, Montour, McCabe, Joki)

Georgiev is a potential starter, he is cost controlled still, and if you have him and Ullmark for the year it would look like a much more respectable scenario then Hutton being involved whatsoever.
Forum: Trade Machine Proposals18 jui à 14 h 18
Sujet: Johnny Hockeys New Home
<a href="/users/Yojimbo" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@Yojimbo</a> They need a long term answer in net. It wasn't too long ago that Murray and Vasilevsky were the two best young G in the league. Calgary is also loosing a bunch of D to FA and actually need to fill out their blue line. I added Riikola as a sweetener but it addresses a need for them.

But you're right they probably don't move Gaudreau for anybody and we probably don't move Murray for anybody.

<a href="/users/LetsGoPens29" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@LetsGoPens29</a> I wouldn't say highway robbery. CGY needs a long term answer in net and Matt Murray is a young RFA with two Cups who they could sign for a long time. Unless they retained more than half of Lucic's salary we would never do that. The thing is, this addresses a need for both teams, and we have Jarry still.