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2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...

11 févr. à 8 h 24
#926
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
“Don’t show up the other team” is a rule based on mutual respect, and is found in all major sports leagues despite being in none of their rule books. In baseball, football, nascar there are dozen examples - don’t celebrate on the opposing crest, don’t steal bases when you’re up by 15, don’t initiate physical contact with another driver when you’re laps ahead, etc.

If I were DOPS Morgan would get a fine. Players disrespecting each other constantly would result in way more injuries than what they currently are. Players drawing the line is what keeps that from occurring. These dudes live on the edge of rage. I think if this were any other team, and the same event, the same thing happens. Players do not extremely exaggerate engs because there is mutual respect.

Senators dude totally put his quarter into the face punching machine and pressed start. Nobody should be surprised that the machine then punched him in the face. You can punish the face punching machine all you want, it will be at every game whether it’s suspended or not.

I do gotta talk a little %$#*.

Marner skating up at the end of the scrum and doing nothing was exceptionally in character. Lol. Sorry not sorry.


I'm fine with Greig getting a punch in the face there.
Not with a stick, just enough to send a message.
That's worth a one game suspension in the regular season.

If this were the playoffs though, somebody else has to deliver the message. You can't have Rielly taking himself out of games.

Regular season or not, it should still be anyone else stepping up there. You can get by without one of the big 4 forwards for a game or two, but you can't let your best defenseman do that.
11 févr. à 8 h 40
#927
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Two things can be true at once:

1. Morgan Rielly's response to Greig was extreme

2. Greig shouldn't have done what he did

Criticizing one guy isn't praising the other.


Greig learned a valuable lesson don't do that again as imagine he did that in Tampa, Boston, Florida or any other team with tougher guys they would probably send him to the ER. Like Bennett for sure would take the suspension to make a point
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11 févr. à 8 h 44
#928
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop

Senators dude totally put his quarter into the face punching machine and pressed start. Nobody should be surprised that the machine then punched him in the face. You can punish the face punching machine all you want, it will be at every game whether it’s suspended or not.
.


I'd be totally fine with a face-punching in that situation. Penalty. Maybe a fine.

But Reilly didn't go over and drop the gloves and tune him up. He went over and hit the guy in the face with lumber. Not the same. Completely gross. Earns no and gets no "respect" from me. Hope he sits for a long time, to be honest, but won't be surprised if he gets a pass based on how many minutes a night he plays.
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11 févr. à 8 h 47
#929
Bedard23
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I would’ve been fine if Rielly gave him a small shot somewhere that’s not at the head, sure do that

There is no circumstances where blatantly attempting to injure should be defended
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11 févr. à 9 h 26
#930
mokumboi
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Modifié 11 févr. à 9 h 39
Anyone making lame excuses for Rielly is completely full of it. He should OBVIOUSLY get near the 21 games Dale Hunter got. Probably more. DUH.
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11 févr. à 9 h 27
#931
mokumboi
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Quoting: aadoyle
Greig learned a valuable lesson don't do that again as imagine he did that in Tampa, Boston, Florida or any other team with tougher guys they would probably send him to the ER. Like Bennett for sure would take the suspension to make a point


Muh huh. So now how do we teach Rielly a lesson appropriate to the levels of each offense? Drive over him with a car? Drop him in a lion's den?
11 févr. à 9 h 30
#932
mokumboi
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Modifié 11 févr. à 9 h 44
Quoting: CantStopWontStop
“Don’t show up the other team” is a rule based on mutual respect, and is found in all major sports leagues despite being in none of their rule books. In baseball, football, nascar there are dozen examples - don’t celebrate on the opposing crest, don’t steal bases when you’re up by 15, don’t initiate physical contact with another driver when you’re laps ahead, etc.

If I were DOPS Morgan would get a fine. Players disrespecting each other constantly would result in way more injuries than what they currently are. Players drawing the line is what keeps that from occurring. These dudes live on the edge of rage. I think if this were any other team, and the same event, the same thing happens. Players do not extremely exaggerate engs because there is mutual respect.

Senators dude totally put his quarter into the face punching machine and pressed start. Nobody should be surprised that the machine then punched him in the face. You can punish the face punching machine all you want, it will be at every game whether it’s suspended or not.




This is truly living in a fantasy world. If the situation was reversed, you would be singing an entirely different tune. Unreal.
11 févr. à 9 h 56
#933
Go leafs go
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Greig knew what he was doing on this play. He was showing off and trying to rile up the leafs. And Rielly rightly went after him.

HOWEVER… a blatant cross check to the head is not acceptable under any circumstances. You can’t defend what Rielly did. I’d say he probably gets 5 games, and I think he should get 5 games.
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11 févr. à 9 h 57
#934
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Quoting: mokumboi
Anyone making lame excuses for Rielly is completely full of it. He should OBVIOUSLY get near the 21 games Dale Hunter got. Probably more. DUH.


No way you are serious. 21 games?!?! A fair comparison is Perron, who got 6 games. Both examples of cross checks to the head when the play was stopped.
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11 févr. à 10 h 4
#935
mokumboi
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Quoting: Saskleaf
No way you are serious. 21 games?!?! A fair comparison is Perron, who got 6 games. Both examples of cross checks to the head when the play was stopped.


You make a decent point, but the scenarios were not the same. Perron acted like a maniac when his teammate got hammered and was lying motionless on the ice. Rielly did the same pathetic situational thing as Hunter, but worse because he cross-checked him in the head.

And for perspective, let me just add that I think Perron's suspension was too light. Meanwhile, we got people in here acting like Rielly is some sort of victim and should walk with a formality fine.
11 févr. à 10 h 17
#936
Leafs going to Leafs
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Quoting: McGruff
Next game Ryan Reaves has a little knuckle to nose talk w/ Jimmy Stu...that's the solution!
Not hoping Gary Bettman or the lame TV Panel make it better.


You mean next season?

And no Ottawa player had the courage to go up against freaking Matthew Knies, what makes you think they'll go up against Reaves?
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11 févr. à 10 h 23
#937
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In terms of suspension/no suspension... The question becomes; Is a punch to the face after the other (suspecting) guy disrespects your team worth more games than:

- Can opening an unsuspected player (record of doing this stuff)
- RKOing an unsuspecting player (history of fines for sure, not sure about suspensions)
- Hits from behind on unsuspecting players
- Chicken wings
- Straight cross check to neck in net front battle
- Straight cross check to back of the head x2

If you say no to any of these, Rielly should be getting less than 2 games as all examples got either fines, nothing or 2 game suspensions
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11 févr. à 10 h 37
#938
mokumboi
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
In terms of suspension/no suspension... The question becomes; Is a punch to the face after the other (suspecting) guy disrespects your team worth more games than:

- Can opening an unsuspected player (record of doing this stuff)
- RKOing an unsuspecting player (history of fines for sure, not sure about suspensions)
- Hits from behind on unsuspecting players
- Chicken wings
- Straight cross check to neck in net front battle
- Straight cross check to back of the head x2

If you say no to any of these, Rielly should be getting less than 2 games as all examples got either fines, nothing or 2 game suspensions




Riiight. So because these wrongdoers were given stupidly low punishments, we should continue giving stupidly low punishments, especially to doers who did wronger stuff. Makes total sense.

And you guys want to talk about Greig's level of "disrespect" (which required nothing more than a face to face howdy-do that you forget about four seconds later). Amazing.
11 févr. à 10 h 48
#939
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Modifié 11 févr. à 11 h 2
Quoting: mokumboi
Riiight. So because these wrongdoers were given stupidly low punishments, we should continue giving stupidly low punishments, especially to doers who did wronger stuff. Makes total sense.

And you guys want to talk about Greig's level of "disrespect" (which required nothing more than a face to face howdy-do that you forget about four seconds later). Amazing.


It factors into a suspension, then add in the Greig isn't hurt, and he dove like his buddy

Here are other examples if you don't like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlwS09ip3I (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuAXPRrOnfs (no games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JJhC5iISg (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu7Eod9_9Pc (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5id0hsgiDU (Kocecny fined, Smith got 2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhFf_eb1mos (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfK7b9mkW-I (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMprHc4XNsw (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq5IC80rcxU (2 games)

All of these are:
- Recent
- Head shots
- On an unsuspecting player
- Most of these guys have a history (some don't but most do)
- Some are after the play

Rielly shouldn't get more than any of those examples... I can bring up more if you want
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11 févr. à 11 h 14
#940
Go leafs go
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Quoting: mokumboi
You make a decent point, but the scenarios were not the same. Perron acted like a maniac when his teammate got hammered and was lying motionless on the ice. Rielly did the same pathetic situational thing as Hunter, but worse because he cross-checked him in the head.

And for perspective, let me just add that I think Perron's suspension was too light. Meanwhile, we got people in here acting like Rielly is some sort of victim and should walk with a formality fine.


That’s a fair argument if you want to advocate for bigger suspensions, but we all know that the DOPS is a joke and isn’t going to do that. Based on that fact I think 6 games for Perron was pretty fair and I think Riellys is slightly less bad (though I don’t have any particular reason why, I think because I looked a little softer but maybe I’m misremembering the Perron hit), so I’d say 5 games.
11 févr. à 11 h 15
#941
mokumboi
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Quoting: Leafsfan98
It factors into a suspension, then add in the Greig isn't hurt, and he dove like his buddy

Here are other examples if you don't like it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPlwS09ip3I (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuAXPRrOnfs (no games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4JJhC5iISg (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu7Eod9_9Pc (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5id0hsgiDU (Kocecny fined, Smith got 2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhFf_eb1mos (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfK7b9mkW-I (1 game)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMprHc4XNsw (2 games)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq5IC80rcxU (2 games)

All of these are:
- Recent
- Head shots
- On an unsuspecting player
- Most of these guys have a history (some don't but most do)
- Some are after the play

Rielly shouldn't get more than any of those examples... I can bring up more if you want



First of all, you're conflating several things that were either during the course of play or not near the level a cross check to the head, or both. More importantly, Greig dove??? What???

Gosh, maybe we should reward Rielly, huh? Really, he's a hero, to all the disaffected folks out there who imagine that slapper was the height of evil. We should give them all cuddles for what they've been through!

Sweet Moses, do you even hear yourself?
11 févr. à 11 h 19
#942
mokumboi
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Quoting: Saskleaf
That’s a fair argument if you want to advocate for bigger suspensions, but we all know that the DOPS is a joke and isn’t going to do that. Based on that fact I think 6 games for Perron was pretty fair and I think Riellys is slightly less bad (though I don’t have any particular reason why, I think because I looked a little softer but maybe I’m misremembering the Perron hit), so I’d say 5 games.


Rielly's was not as bad? I see you're trying to be pragmatic and relative about it, and I get that. No one should ever get away with under 10 games for the things those guys did. And frankly, that might be too lenient. This was a straight up assault. Over, and I'm sorry that I have to say it, practically nothing. People in here acting like what Greig did was some insidious form of unsportsmanship... but cross checks to the face are Kosher. It's beyond pathetic.
11 févr. à 11 h 29
#943
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Quoting: mokumboi
Rielly's was not as bad? I see you're trying to be pragmatic and relative about it, and I get that. No one should ever get away with under 10 games for the things those guys did. And frankly, that might be too lenient. This was a straight up assault. Over, and I'm sorry that I have to say it, practically nothing. People in here acting like what Greig did was some insidious form of unsportsmanship... but cross checks to the face are Kosher. It's beyond pathetic.


I haven't seen anyone here say Rielly shouldn't be suspsended. My guess is Rielly gets 3-5 games for the cross check to the face. There are multiple thruths going on here, both Grieg and Rielly should've known better than to do what they did, Grieg broke an unwritten rule (which I have been on the unwritten rules in sport are stupid train for years, however, they still very much exist and one should be aware of them), while Rielly will get suspended for a dumb move that has no place in hockey
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11 févr. à 11 h 39
#944
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I haven't seen anyone here say Rielly shouldn't be suspsended. My guess is Rielly gets 3-5 games for the cross check to the face. There are multiple thruths going on here, both Grieg and Rielly should've known better than to do what they did, Grieg broke an unwritten rule (which I have been on the unwritten rules in sport are stupid train for years, however, they still very much exist and one should be aware of them), while Rielly will get suspended for a dumb move that has no place in hockey


On the unwritten rule scale from minor-to-major, the Grieg slapshot ranks somewhere between "crossing the red line during warmups" and "not moving puck to linesman after a whistle"

Breaking his head is not the proportional response.
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11 févr. à 11 h 40
#945
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
On the unwritten rule scale from minor-to-major, the Grieg slapshot ranks somewhere between "crossing the red line during warmups" and "not moving puck to linesman after a whistle"

Breaking his head is not the proportional response.


I never said it was
11 févr. à 11 h 44
#946
we miss leo k
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
2. The bigger factor will be that it occurred after a goal. At end of game. It was not a hockey play.


louder for the abundant Leafs-fans-cum-neurologists here saying that since Grieg skated off and wasn't hurt that this shouldn't really be an issue.
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11 févr. à 11 h 45
#947
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I never said it was


Not challenging anything you said.

You mentioned the unwritten rule...I am just saying its a very minor unwritten rule.
Rielly could have ignored and no one would have noticed or cared.
11 févr. à 11 h 53
#948
torontos finest
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dops has the ability to do the funniest thing ever and just fine rielly 5k
11 févr. à 11 h 56
#949
WentWughes
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Quoting: mondo
dops has the ability to do the funniest thing ever and just fine rielly 5k


That's not the funniest thing ever, don't think they take into effect what caused the illegal play, or else Perron would've gotten nothing.
11 févr. à 11 h 57
#950
More Finns More Wins
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The fact that Greig skated away under his own power should not impact the length of the suspension.

Punish the intent to injure, not the end result of the play.

Greig's showboating does NOT mean that an opponent can cross-check his head three seconds after the play is over.

Honestly I think the Perron incident is very similar, well after the end of the play, same type of hit though Perron's looked more forceful, the surrounding circumstances shouldn't matter.

That said, it's all up to the Wheel of discipline, predicting this is a fool's errand.
 
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