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2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...

10 févr. à 23 h 33
#901
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Perron got 6.
That was a misplaced response from a hockey play.

This was after a whistle….worse, after a goal.
Cross check to head.
Should be no place for that in NHL.

Deserves 10, probably gets 5


Rielly should probably get 6 - 7 games, but we all know how the DoPS is with consistency. Im sure Rielly's fairly clean track record will factor in somehow
10 févr. à 23 h 39
#902
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Quoting: aadoyle
Perron,s not a great comparable due to the situation and once again everyone agreed to much for we saw stuff like he did = 1 or 2 games

If Rielly gets 5 it shows Dops once again has no idea what it's doing as if u keep over suspending for stuff like this but don't do a thing for more serious stuff or have it 1-2 games we go no where

That's all there is to it. But so far Parros has shown to be inadequate of running the department

1-2 games is the most rielly will probs get based on comparable with Perron being an outlier

10 is just silly talk. As that = guy going to hospital unresponsive


What is the comparable?
Dale Hunter?

2 games if that was during a hockey play.
Would be consistent while earlier sanctions.

But he crosschecked him in head.
After the whistle, after a goal.
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10 févr. à 23 h 46
#903
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Modifié 10 févr. à 23 h 51
Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Rielly should probably get 6 - 7 games, but we all know how the DoPS is with consistency. Im sure Rielly's fairly clean track record will factor in somehow


6-7 is way to much for a first time offender basically he's an outlier

Matthews got 2 (FTO)
Skinner 3 (had a record)
Landeskog 4 games (had record)
Malkin 4 games (had record)
Perron 6 games (FTO)
Benning 2 playoff games or 4 reg season games (had record)

All for crosscheck to head. Notice 4 games was when guys were repeat offenders

FTO =1-2 unless u made parros mad which Perron must have done
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10 févr. à 23 h 47
#904
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Quoting: NorthernLeafsFan05
Rielly should probably get 6 - 7 games, but we all know how the DoPS is with consistency. Im sure Rielly's fairly clean track record will factor in somehow


If it’s 6+ games….the appeal can go outside league.
If it’s 1-5 games….appeal only goes to Bettman

I’m guessing it’s 5.

(And track record is not supposed to be a factor because it’s difficult on other side of spectrum… if first time offenders are given more lenient sentencing, than they would also have to give repeat offenders bigger fines, longer suspensions…which NHLPA does not want)

And agree with you on consistency.
10 févr. à 23 h 48
#905
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Modifié 10 févr. à 23 h 53
Quoting: NHLfan10506
What is the comparable?
Dale Hunter?

2 games if that was during a hockey play.
Would be consistent while earlier sanctions.

But he crosschecked him in head.
After the whistle, after a goal.


If we look at history repeat offenders have gotten 4 games for this play my list above shows recent ones

Perron is the outlier rn with 6 as a FTO

Matthews got 2 as a first time offender but wa have also seen headshot cross check = fine or 1 game suspensions

Dops have double standard and if they do 5 its a bad look again As overpunishing some plays and ignoring more dangerous ones does nothing for nhl
10 févr. à 23 h 52
#906
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Quoting: aadoyle
If we look at history repeat offenders have gotten 4 games for this play my list above shows recent ones

Perron is the outlier rn with 6

Matthews got 2 as a first time offender but wa have also seen headshot cross check = fine or 1 game suspension


“Repeat offender” is not supposed to impact the length of suspension.

It only changes how much salary is docked if they player is suspended.
10 févr. à 23 h 54
#907
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Modifié 11 févr. à 0 h 4
Quoting: NHLfan10506
“Repeat offender” is not supposed to impact the length of suspension.

It only changes how much salary is docked if they player is suspended.


It does impact it just ask Wilson.

Everything is taken into account

Being a repeat offenders does not boad well for you or the length of suspension and fine.

Often repeat offenders get longer suspensions.

We saw it with Malkin, Landeskog, Skinner alo g with notorious repeat offenders like Marchand and Wilson
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10 févr. à 23 h 54
#908
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Quoting: aadoyle
Perron's not a great comparable due to the situation and once again everyone agreed to much for we saw stuff like he did = 1 or 2 games. It's an outlier

If Rielly gets 5 it shows Dops once again has no idea what it's doing as if u keep over suspending for stuff like this but don't do a thing for more serious stuff or have it 1-2 games we go no where

That's all there is to it. But so far Parros has shown to be inadequate of running the department. Keep doing oversuspensuons the vote of no confidence will come

1-2 games is the most rielly will probs get based on comparable with Perron being an outlier

10 is just silly talk. As that = guy going to hospital unresponsive after incident or for repeat offenders


Perron is the closest and most recent comparable.
A retaliatory cross check to the head after the play.

The reason and result of the incident shouldn't be a factor in a decision for action outside of play.
It was a purposefully dangerous attack with intent to injure. Not an accident or missed timing/aim, nor a player leaving themselves in a vulnerable position.

Greig absolutely deserved a response for his actions but if you're going outside the bounds of the game you also deserve the repercussions for doing so.
Reilly should be suspended for a similar length of time as Perron (modified by history).
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10 févr. à 23 h 54
#909
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Quoting: aadoyle
If we look at history repeat offenders have gotten 4 games for this play my list above shows recent ones

Perron is the outlier rn with 6 as a FTO

Matthews got 2 as a first time offender but wa have also seen headshot cross check = fine or 1 game suspensions

Dops have double standard and if they do 5 its a bad look again As overpunishing some plays and ignoring more dangerous ones does nothing for nhl


Did Matthews, Malkin, etc cross check a guy in the head after they scored a goal?
10 févr. à 23 h 57
#910
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Modifié 11 févr. à 0 h 10
Quoting: NHLfan10506
Did Matthews, Malkin, etc cross check a guy in the head after they scored a goal?


Scoring a goal does not matter and has 0 impact. If that's what leads to a longer suspension Parros be dumber then I thought

If Dops bases suspension on scoring and not scoring when incident occurs games more ****ed then we realize
10 févr. à 23 h 57
#911
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
“Repeat offender” is not supposed to impact the length of suspension.

It only changes how much salary is docked if they player is suspended.


Repeat offender status and having a history of supplemental discipline aren’t the same. All previous history is taken into account when determining the length of a suspension.
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11 févr. à 0 h 0
#912
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Modifié 11 févr. à 0 h 7
Quoting: ricochetii
Perron is the closest and most recent comparable.
A retaliatory cross check to the head after the play.

The reason and result of the incident shouldn't be a factor in a decision for action outside of play.
It was a purposefully dangerous attack with intent to injure. Not an accident or missed timing/aim, nor a player leaving themselves in a vulnerable position.

Greig absolutely deserved a response for his actions but if you're going outside the bounds of the game you also deserve the repercussions for doing so.
Reilly should be suspended for a similar length of time as Perron (modified by history).


As said before Perron be an outlier and 5 games for what he did and in that situation = qay to much.

Not saying Rielly should not be suspended but based on the comparable 1-2 games is fair as we have seen worse =5k fine

Matthews and Dahlin for instance cross checked eachother hard, the play Dahlin before cross checing him into crossbar was pretty bad but then matthews went high and got 2 games when others got 1. Now to me both should have got 1 as they retaliated on eachother but what can yah do Parros ain't the sharpest tool in shed

As he got double or even triple/quad standards it seems
11 févr. à 0 h 3
#913
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Did Matthews, Malkin, etc cross check a guy in the head after they scored a goal?


I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on it being after a goal. Greig was well aware of the situation. Wasn’t unsuspecting or any more vulnerable, which is what I think the more important factor is.
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11 févr. à 0 h 16
#914
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Repeat offender status and having a history of supplemental discipline aren’t the same. All previous history is taken into account when determining the length of a suspension.


I believe ALL factors…score, time remaining, previous events…are considered in decision. So a players history can be part of that. DOPS can, in a way, do whatever they want.

But there are no sentencing guidelines for guys with track record (but there are stiffer fines)…which is what previous poster was arguing. There is nothing that says, Parros cannot suspend him x games. The only part of his authority under CBA that outside his discretion are fines for “repeat offenders” and appeal process.
11 févr. à 0 h 22
#915
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on it being after a goal. Greig was well aware of the situation. Wasn’t unsuspecting or any more vulnerable, which is what I think the more important factor is.


That is never the norm.

(I don’t understand the view that Rielly was entitled to go apesh*t).
11 févr. à 0 h 26
#916
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Quoting: Stones6160
I guess I’ll toss my two cents into this

What Grieg did was objectively not the classiest move and well that’s a lesson learned looking at it for him now

However. Reilly 100% intentionally crossed checked him in the face. Can’t even say his stick went up his shoulders. He didn’t touch them at all. That’s a chicken move and does not have a place in hockey, if you’re actively defending Reilly here, idk man, the excuse of “oh look at back then” is over. It’s a newer, safer era of hockey. Accept it. Saying that’s embellishing is craaaazy


I remember a more violent game. I would be 100% okay if someone took a run at Grieg during play. Or if a player dropped the gloves and pummeled him, even if he wasn't a willing participant. You send your message and take your penalty for charging or instigating if the refs see fit as the price to send the message if necessary. I'd be fine with that. If you can't do it tonight, you bank it for next time.

What you simply cannot do is just hit people in the face with a stick while the puck isn't even in play. Especially after a slap to an empty net. Grieg's wasn't even a violent play begging for some score settling. Just salt in your Leafy wounds. World class stupid, crosscheck and indefensible. You couldn't do it even when the game wasn't obsessed with player safety. Certainly can't do it now. Just tune him up next game.

Whatever the sentence ends up being (and let's face it, who the heck knows with DOPS), he earned it. The FAFO people cheering on Reilly might find that FAFO sword cuts both directions.
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11 févr. à 0 h 31
#917
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I believe ALL factors…score, time remaining, previous events…are considered in decision. So a players history can be part of that. DOPS can, in a way, do whatever they want.

But there are no sentencing guidelines for guys with track record (but there are stiffer fines)…which is what previous poster was arguing. There is nothing that says, Parros cannot suspend him x games. The only part of his authority under CBA that outside his discretion are fines for “repeat offenders” and appeal process.


There are no public “guidelines”, but it is known that history of supplemental discipline is (or is supposed to be) taken into account when handing out suspensions. This is separate from the incident itself.
11 févr. à 0 h 31
#918
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
That is never the norm.

(I don’t understand the view that Rielly was entitled to go apesh*t).


Not really sure what you mean by this tbh
11 févr. à 0 h 35
#919
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https://twitter.com/josephdzita/status/1756545968885875143?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

So principle contact was shoulder then rose per friedman

So not a direct headshot. Figured as when u look u can see it in slomo. Still think it's a bit more of a punch then a direct cross check but yea Perron thing out window now
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11 févr. à 0 h 48
#920
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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
There are no public “guidelines”, but it is known that history of supplemental discipline is (or is supposed to be) taken into account when handing out suspensions. This is separate from the incident itself.


“Repeat Offender” is what triggers larger fines. I believe it was mixed up as factor in length of suspensions. There is no set x games for this guy, y games for this guy based on their previous DOPS punishments. It’s all up to their discretion based on game situation, score, previous events, whether it was during play, before game, after a goal…all can be factors. A clean history does not absolve anyone. If they want to suspend X games, they will. The players right is then to the appeal.


Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Not really sure what you mean by this tbh


“Grieg was aware of the situation” sounded to me like “he knew he had it coming”. How would he know? Guys normally don’t get creamed after scoring a goal.

And Keefe calling it the “appropriate response”…is he saying anyone who scores against leafs should expect an appropriate stick to the head? Would that mean next time Matthews or Marner or Nylander score, they should expect an “appropriate” stick to head?
11 févr. à 0 h 55
#921
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Quoting: aadoyle
https://twitter.com/josephdzita/status/1756545968885875143?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

So principle contact was shoulder then rose per friedman

So not a direct headshot. Figured as when u look u can see it in slomo. Still think it's a bit more of a punch then a direct cross check but yea Perron thing out window now


1. No reasonable person looks at that play and says, he attempted to hit shoulder. He went for head, Grieg braced, lifted shoulder, which caught some of Rielly’s stick.

2. The bigger factor will be that it occurred after a goal. At end of game. It was not a hockey play.
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11 févr. à 1 h 9
#922
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
“Repeat Offender” is what triggers larger fines. I believe it was mixed up as factor in length of suspensions. There is no set x games for this guy, y games for this guy based on their previous DOPS punishments. It’s all up to their discretion based on game situation, score, previous events, whether it was during play, before game, after a goal…all can be factors. A clean history does not absolve anyone. If they want to suspend X games, they will. The players right is then to the appeal.




“Grieg was aware of the situation” sounded to me like “he knew he had it coming”. How would he know? Guys normally don’t get creamed after scoring a goal.

And Keefe calling it the “appropriate response”…is he saying anyone who scores against leafs should expect an appropriate stick to the head? Would that mean next time Matthews or Marner or Nylander score, they should expect an “appropriate” stick to head?


Yes “repeat offender status” is specific to fines, but being a “repeat offender” is not the same as just having a history of supplemental discipline. ALL previous (or lack thereof) fines and suspensions are meant to be taken into account when determining length of a players suspension. There is no official guideline or standard, as is the norm with the DOPS because they like to be able to do whatever they want, but it is a factor.

Second part seems intentionally ignorant
11 févr. à 3 h 19
#923
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Two things can be true at once:

1. Morgan Rielly's response to Greig was extreme

2. Greig shouldn't have done what he did

Criticizing one guy isn't praising the other.
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11 févr. à 4 h 12
#924
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Modifié 11 févr. à 6 h 48
“Don’t show up the other team” is a rule based on mutual respect, and is found in all major sports leagues despite being in none of their rule books. In baseball, football, nascar there are dozen examples - don’t celebrate on the opposing crest, don’t steal bases when you’re up by 15, don’t initiate physical contact with another driver when you’re laps ahead, etc.

If I were DOPS Morgan would get a fine. Players disrespecting each other constantly would result in way more injuries than what they currently are. Players drawing the line is what keeps that from occurring. These dudes live on the edge of rage. I think if this were any other team, and the same event, the same thing happens. Players do not extremely exaggerate engs because there is mutual respect.

Senators dude totally put his quarter into the face punching machine and pressed start. Nobody should be surprised that the machine then punched him in the face. You can punish the face punching machine all you want, it will be at every game whether it’s suspended or not.

I do gotta talk a little %$#*.

Marner skating up at the end of the scrum and doing nothing was exceptionally in character. Lol. Sorry not sorry.
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11 févr. à 6 h 48
#925
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Yeah, what Rielly did has no place in hockey, however, what Grieg did doesn’t really either. I’d expect Rielly to get maybe around 3-5 games.
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