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2023-2024 NHL Discussion Thread #3: After Further Review...

15 févr. à 20 h 21
#1151
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Even though they aint similar players I just get that feeling Bertuzzi's got the Kerfoot virus lul
15 févr. à 20 h 38
#1152
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Matthews is just having fun aint he lul
15 févr. à 23 h 13
#1153
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The league needs to protect its stars more.

How can let Arvidsson just get bullied and embarrassed by Goon Jack Hughes like that?
15 févr. à 23 h 57
#1154
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Modifié 16 févr. à 18 h 9
Quoting: aadoyle
Maybe. Or its that the handling of Jireck and no clear solution is where they went alright time to move on

As why not just waive Peeke or something and give Jireck a spot lul


Quoting: McGruff
Just a layman's take from 50,000 feet - his moves always seemed like re-arranging the deck chairs OR player movement IN/OUT but rarely TEAM building...


Quoting: mondo
jarmo overstayed his welcome in columbus by a handful of seasons, but the last straw should've been that babcock fiasco.

i guess that the powers that be didn't trust him going into the deadline


To me, it just shows that there is a unique skillset to scout/identify/draft and develop prospects into NHL players; target and recruit NHL players/coaches; and another to take a collection of talent and mold into a winning team. Jarmo did the first two fairly successfully (not without a few mistakes: ala Mike Babcock) but just wasn't able to become successful in the 3rd.

The executive or coach who builds the team isn't always the one that takes it to its success; sometimes you need a new perspective, new voice, new leadership to forge it into a contender.

But sometimes you can break it too; it's not always linear. Columbus has to be really certain of there next step.
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16 févr. à 0 h 59
#1155
Amirov Forever
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Seems to be a mixed bag of opinions when it comes to the Lightning's new third jerseys, but I'm just going to come out and say it: I absolutely love the jerseys (and the entire uniform looks fantastic) and the Bolts should strongly consider making them their main jerseys. They are infinitely better than the current Lightning jerseys, the black, white, and blue works super well. I love the striping on them and the logo is pretty solid as well.
16 févr. à 2 h 23
#1156
mokumboi
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We as hockey fans need to start demanding better media voices, because the lot we have are horrendous. Yeah, there's good local writers/pundits here and there, but for the most part the "journalistic" landscape is anything but journalistic. And many of the most popular voices are the biggest poser idiots. Only hockey fans would make Don brain-dead psycho Cherry a superstar for decades. Why do we do this to ourselves? I swear, if I read a well-informed article or hear a genuinely knowledgeable commentator on TV it feels like a miracle.

And just to clarify, I am not talking about play by play and TV color guys, stuff like that. So many of them are amazing and professional and have more than a single clue. I'm talking myopic writers, podcast clowns, YouTube doofuses, goofball wastes of time in between periods, so-called insiders, stats gurus who barely seem to understand their own stats, all that. It's just depressing that people/media outlets have such gruesome taste.
16 févr. à 6 h 48
#1157
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Modifié 16 févr. à 8 h 15
21 days until trade deadline.

At this point last season STL had unloaded Tarasenko and Orielly, Horvat had been moved, and the defensive market opened up during this week with Orlov moving.

Since there aren’t a lot of premium assets available, I wonder if this year changes a bit:

I wonder if we see packages of 2 skaters moved for a first. There aren’t enough skaters worth a first to satisfy the number of teams who want to improve. These teams still want firsts and some teams in contention will still spend them. So, for example, Henrique commands a 1st, but he’s shipped with somebody else to round out that value.

But then, many of the “sellers” with premium assets are in playoff contention

Philly (Walker, Frost, Laughton)
Calgary (hanafin, Tanev, markstrom)
Stl (Buchnevich, Kapanen)
LAK (Roy, Arvidsson)
DET (Perron, Kane)

Kinda crazy if most of that isn’t traded. There ain’t much left.

After stl caved in Edmonton during last nights second period, I don’t think they can be sellers. It would def anger hockey gods. If the team can spank that hard you must let them try. Some gms say that the teams tell them what to do at the deadline. The blues told Doug Armstrong.
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16 févr. à 9 h 54
#1158
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Quoting: mokumboi
We as hockey fans need to start demanding better media voices, because the lot we have are horrendous. Yeah, there's good local writers/pundits here and there, but for the most part the "journalistic" landscape is anything but journalistic. And many of the most popular voices are the biggest poser idiots. Only hockey fans would make Don brain-dead psycho Cherry a superstar for decades. Why do we do this to ourselves? I swear, if I read a well-informed article or hear a genuinely knowledgeable commentator on TV it feels like a miracle.

And just to clarify, I am not talking about play by play and TV color guys, stuff like that. So many of them are amazing and professional and have more than a single clue. I'm talking myopic writers, podcast clowns, YouTube doofuses, goofball wastes of time in between periods, so-called insiders, stats gurus who barely seem to understand their own stats, all that. It's just depressing that people/media outlets have such gruesome taste.


I would agree with you that there are many people in the hockey industry that don't know much. However, I strongly disagree that Don Cherry was a problem. The hockey industry needs more people like him who have lots of hockey experience, will stand behind their comments, and aren't afraid to give controversial opinions. Now everyone is afraid to to say anything controversial, are not resolute in their opinions, and do not have a wealth of experience. There's no point debating this though because you're not going to change my view, I doubt I will change yours, and any result would still not affect who is employed in hockey media.
16 févr. à 10 h 38
#1159
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Quoting: mokumboi
We as hockey fans need to start demanding better media voices, because the lot we have are horrendous. Yeah, there's good local writers/pundits here and there, but for the most part the "journalistic" landscape is anything but journalistic. And many of the most popular voices are the biggest poser idiots. Only hockey fans would make Don brain-dead psycho Cherry a superstar for decades. Why do we do this to ourselves? I swear, if I read a well-informed article or hear a genuinely knowledgeable commentator on TV it feels like a miracle.

And just to clarify, I am not talking about play by play and TV color guys, stuff like that. So many of them are amazing and professional and have more than a single clue. I'm talking myopic writers, podcast clowns, YouTube doofuses, goofball wastes of time in between periods, so-called insiders, stats gurus who barely seem to understand their own stats, all that. It's just depressing that people/media outlets have such gruesome taste.


Quoting: LeafsForLife
I would agree with you that there are many people in the hockey industry that don't know much. However, I strongly disagree that Don Cherry was a problem. The hockey industry needs more people like him who have lots of hockey experience, will stand behind their comments, and aren't afraid to give controversial opinions. Now everyone is afraid to to say anything controversial, are not resolute in their opinions, and do not have a wealth of experience. There's no point debating this though because you're not going to change my view, I doubt I will change yours, and any result would still not affect who is employed in hockey media.


As a hockey-fan that did not grow up with the game but converted in adulthood; the two differences I see in hockey media:

1) It is very Canada-centric (which mirrors the historical domination of the sport as a legacy of the pre-WHA days: former Players become coaches/GMs, media anaylsts and many Europeans go home; while American media has never invested much in hockey to offer many jobs). This creates the "old boys" club where everyone mirrors each other and few say anything to get noticed.
2) There is a major lack of true "hockey tactics" to explain greater insights into the games. For example in football, John Madden brought a coaches mind to the masses using his telestrater and breaking down the "Xs and Os" of plays/assignments and roles. Nobody in major hockey media does that to any noticeable level. Hockey is on-the-fly so it can't be done on every possession, but it could be on goals or high danger chances. This basically means that all of the casual fans (the masses) are generally hockey-dumb and just think "if he scores he's good if he doesn't he sucks" and the conversation goes off the rails when advanced stats tries to explain what "good" is or "bad" is but none of it is relevant to the actually play on the ice.

Now that I have 20+ years of watching hockey, playing hockey, and trying to understand roles/responsibilities I see this as the biggest gap in from hockey media to the public.
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16 févr. à 10 h 55
#1160
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
As a hockey-fan that did not grow up with the game but converted in adulthood; the two differences I see in hockey media:

1) It is very Canada-centric (which mirrors the historical domination of the sport as a legacy of the pre-WHA days: former Players become coaches/GMs, media anaylsts and many Europeans go home; while American media has never invested much in hockey to offer many jobs). This creates the "old boys" club where everyone mirrors each other and few say anything to get noticed.
2) There is a major lack of true "hockey tactics" to explain greater insights into the games. For example in football, John Madden brought a coaches mind to the masses using his telestrater and breaking down the "Xs and Os" of plays/assignments and roles. Nobody in major hockey media does that to any noticeable level. Hockey is on-the-fly so it can't be done on every possession, but it could be on goals or high danger chances. This basically means that all of the casual fans (the masses) are generally hockey-dumb and just think "if he scores he's good if he doesn't he sucks" and the conversation goes off the rails when advanced stats tries to explain what "good" is or "bad" is but none of it is relevant to the actually play on the ice.

Now that I have 20+ years of watching hockey, playing hockey, and trying to understand roles/responsibilities I see this as the biggest gap in from hockey media to the public.


Yeah I agree with that, I think you hit the nail on the head. If I had to guess why that would be, it would be that of the major sports (Hockey, football, baseball, basketball, and even soccer), hockey is the only one that starts every play with a faceoff. In the other sports, play often resumes with one team starting with possession.
16 févr. à 11 h 46
#1161
mokumboi
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Quoting: LeafsForLife
I would agree with you that there are many people in the hockey industry that don't know much. However, I strongly disagree that Don Cherry was a problem. The hockey industry needs more people like him who have lots of hockey experience, will stand behind their comments, and aren't afraid to give controversial opinions. Now everyone is afraid to to say anything controversial, are not resolute in their opinions, and do not have a wealth of experience. There's no point debating this though because you're not going to change my view, I doubt I will change yours, and any result would still not affect who is employed in hockey media.


If by controversial you mean puerile and xenophobic and constantly, woefully wrong and deluded and appealing to the lowest common denominator, then yeah. Everything wrong with hockey media descends on one line or another from him, or more accurately from the baffling, undeserved adulation and attention he got.
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16 févr. à 11 h 50
#1162
mokumboi
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
21 days until trade deadline.

At this point last season STL had unloaded Tarasenko and Orielly, Horvat had been moved, and the defensive market opened up during this week with Orlov moving.

Since there aren’t a lot of premium assets available, I wonder if this year changes a bit:

I wonder if we see packages of 2 skaters moved for a first. There aren’t enough skaters worth a first to satisfy the number of teams who want to improve. These teams still want firsts and some teams in contention will still spend them. So, for example, Henrique commands a 1st, but he’s shipped with somebody else to round out that value.

But then, many of the “sellers” with premium assets are in playoff contention

Philly (Walker, Frost, Laughton)
Calgary (hanafin, Tanev, markstrom)
Stl (Buchnevich, Kapanen)
LAK (Roy, Arvidsson)
DET (Perron, Kane)

Kinda crazy if most of that isn’t traded. There ain’t much left.

After stl caved in Edmonton during last nights second period, I don’t think they can be sellers. It would def anger hockey gods. If the team can spank that hard you must let them try. Some gms say that the teams tell them what to do at the deadline. The blues told Doug Armstrong.


It's going to take a ridiculous offer to get Buch now. I honestly don't know why so many expect him to move. The pundits who talk about him being on the market are just flapping gums.
16 févr. à 15 h 8
#1163
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Completely random, but felt like looking up the draft lottery limitation rules and this comes directly from NHL.com:

"No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws."

The point being the limitation seems to refer to specifically improving position through the lottery not just winning the lottery in general which seems to me to be what most people think. i.e. if Chicago finishes last and wins the lottery they would still be able to win it next year for 3 straight 1OA because their position didn't advance as a result of winning the lottery. Not exactly sure if this the correct interpretation tho.
16 févr. à 15 h 57
#1164
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Quoting: Turbo
Completely random, but felt like looking up the draft lottery limitation rules and this comes directly from NHL.com:

"No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws."

The point being the limitation seems to refer to specifically improving position through the lottery not just winning the lottery in general which seems to me to be what most people think. i.e. if Chicago finishes last and wins the lottery they would still be able to win it next year for 3 straight 1OA because their position didn't advance as a result of winning the lottery. Not exactly sure if this the correct interpretation tho.


I believe it was confirmed long ago. (Can't remember how or when.)
You can pick 1st overall as often as you finish last.
You can only pick 1st overall from higher in the standings by way of winning the lottery twice.

Edit: that might sound confusing ...
Finishing last AND drafting 1st overall do not count against the restriction (you aren't winning or advancing).
Is that more clear?
16 févr. à 16 h 6
#1165
WentWughes
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Bruins statement:
“Milan Lucic will remain on indefinite leave from the organization for the remainder of the 2023-24 season. The Boston Bruins organization supports Milan and his family as he continues his personal rehabilitation.”
Lucic is on a one-year deal

Charges didn't go through, but Lucic remains suspended for the season? How is that even fair?
16 févr. à 16 h 11
#1166
SHL NJD GM
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Bruins statement:
“Milan Lucic will remain on indefinite leave from the organization for the remainder of the 2023-24 season. The Boston Bruins organization supports Milan and his family as he continues his personal rehabilitation.”
Lucic is on a one-year deal

Charges didn't go through, but Lucic remains suspended for the season? How is that even fair?


Well Lucic's wife refused to testify (possibly due to pressure from Milan) so the case couldn't move forward but the NHL could conduct their own investigation into the matter
16 févr. à 16 h 12
#1167
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Well Lucic's wife refused to testify (possibly due to pressure from Milan) so the case couldn't move forward but the NHL could conduct their own investigation into the matter


I suppose so, but I don't see how the Bruins can keep him suspended when there is nothing to suspend him for. If the Courts don't deem him guilty, then how can the NHL?
16 févr. à 16 h 15
#1168
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I suppose so, but I don't see how the Bruins can keep him suspended when there is nothing to suspend him for. If the Courts don't deem him guilty, then how can the NHL?


Case being dropped does not equal Milan being innocent (especially since the case was dropped because his wife refused to testify), the NHL could easily look at his wife's 911 phone call to the police and decide that Lucic should be suspended. There's also a chance Milan is actually doing personal rehabilitation and is focusing on that instead of returning to hockey
16 févr. à 17 h 30
#1169
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Quoting: ricochetii
I believe it was confirmed long ago. (Can't remember how or when.)
You can pick 1st overall as often as you finish last.
You can only pick 1st overall from higher in the standings by way of winning the lottery twice.

Edit: that might sound confusing ...
Finishing last AND drafting 1st overall do not count against the restriction (you aren't winning or advancing).
Is that more clear?


I believe the limitation is on wins, not on move-ups. The move-up limitation is separate (only 10 spots).

In one of his media appearances, Bettman used Buffalo and New Jersey as examples, if rule applied retroactively, that would be barred. I believe it was around time of 2022 lottery. I think a “win” is any win, even if you end up in same slot.

Its my understanding that there is only one way to get three 1st overall picks in a row (or in 5-year window). Win two lotteries in first two years. In 3rd season, finish last and teams #12-16 win two lotteries (and cannot move all way up to #1) and last place team “retains presumptive draft position”.
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16 févr. à 17 h 48
#1170
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I believe the limitation is on wins, not on move-ups. The move-up limitation is separate (only 10 spots).

In one of his media appearances, Bettman used Buffalo and New Jersey as examples, if rule applied retroactively, that would be barred. I believe it was around time of 2022 lottery. I think a “win” is any win, even if you end up in same slot.

Its my understanding that there is only one way to get three 1st overall picks in a row (or in 5-year window). Win two lotteries in first two years. In 3rd season, finish last and teams #12-16 win two lotteries (and cannot move all way up to #1) and last place team “retains presumptive draft position”.


Beginning this season, no team will be able to move up the draft board by winning a lottery more than two times in a five-year period.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/33887986/the-nhl-2022-draft-lottery-explained-everything-need-know

This specifies that you can't move up by winning the lottery.
I believe the idea is that the 3rd - 12th place finishers can't steal 1st/2nd more than twice.
So if Montreal finishes 5th, 7th, 9th for example, they can only move up two of those 3 years.
16 févr. à 18 h 17
#1171
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Do you guys think the Maple Leafs could/should trade Tyler Bertuzzi?

I honestly think they should do a bit of selling, and not only him. They should try to move one of Jones/Samsonov as well.

If they retained half on Bertuzzi, I believe they could fetch a 3rd and a 4th or maybe even 2 3rds. They have very very little picks and could use some more in the next offseasons/trade deadlines.
16 févr. à 18 h 17
#1172
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Quoting: NHLfan10506

It’s my understanding that there is only one way to get three 1st overall picks in a row (or in 5-year window). Win two lotteries in first two years. In 3rd season, finish last and teams #12-16 win two lotteries (and cannot move all way up to #1) and last place team “retains presumptive draft position”.


I want this outcome. The door has been left open for such a fun outcome I think we deserve it.
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16 févr. à 18 h 54
#1173
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Quoting: CantStopWontStop
I want this outcome. The door has been left open for such a fun outcome I think we deserve it.


Some people just want to see the world burn
16 févr. à 19 h 25
#1174
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The most chaotic way to do the draft lottery is to have it evenly random. Every team that didn't make the playoffs has the same chance to pick 1-3.
16 févr. à 19 h 34
#1175
Hakuna Matata
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Quoting: mondo
The most chaotic way to do the draft lottery is to have it evenly random. Every team that didn't make the playoffs has the same chance to pick 1-3.


And they dont find out till the day of the draft the order

No but seriously can we have the draft lottery the day of the draft
 
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