Toronto Maple Leafs 2023 2024 Offseason Discussion - Now What? - CapFriendly

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Quoting: aadoyle

U move those 2 your basically moving towards rebuild territory. This is the prime definition of MLSE ****ing up

nope, prime definition of MLSE f***ing up would be keeping them and they both walk for nothing and now you're really screwed. You could get some very good, young NHL talent and still keep the team competitive. May be a step back in the very short term but avoids absolute gutter for many many years.

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 0

#27

Hakuna Matata

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Quoting: Random2152

Explain how Matthews has earned a raise at all?
Dude shouldn't top mcdavid at all. Big boy cheques are for closers

Hes gonna get paid by someone whether its us or LAK or someone

Hes probs getting 13mill next deal

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 1

#28

Hakuna Matata

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Quoting: leafs101

nope, prime definition of MLSE f***ing up would be keeping them and they both walk for nothing and now you're really screwed. You could get some very good, young NHL talent and still keep the team competitive. May be a step back in the very short term but avoids absolute gutter for many many years.

Nope were basically gonna have b2b Kadri situations. Were gonna trade these guys lose both then they gonna go win cups on their new teams while we just sitting back realizes hey we ****ed up again.

Nylanders probs getting moved rest are staying. Kevin Pappetti's tweet sums this best

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 2

#29

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Quoting: aadoyle

Nope were basically gonna have b2b Kadri situations. Were gonna trade these guys lose both then they gonna go win cups on their new teams while we just sitting back realizes hey we ****ed up again.

Nylanders probs getting moved rest are staying. Kevin Pappetti's tweet sums this best

so do you not think we go even further into rebuild territory if we keep them a year, don't win, and then Matthews and Nylander just decide to walk and we get absolutely nothing?

Their success at their new destination would have absolutely nothing to do with what the right move would be for the Leafs if they can't get commitments from those guys.

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13 mai 2023 à 14 h 6

#30

hey look a squirrel

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This might be unpopular but this core does not have enough fire or passion to get it done.

Time to rebuild, maybe it's the contract situations drivingmaybe it isn't.

My point is that stop accepting mediocrity, don't settle for 1 round playoff win.

We deserve better and this core is not gonna do it.

Bring back Dubas and go full on rebuild.

MatthewsFan, Saskleaf, oneX and 1 other person a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 7

#31

Messier99

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Quoting: leafs101

nope, prime definition of MLSE f***ing up would be keeping them and they both walk for nothing and now you're really screwed. You could get some very good, young NHL talent and still keep the team competitive. May be a step back in the very short term but avoids absolute gutter for many many years.

If you are taking a step back, do you dump Marner as well. It seems he has a NMC that kicks in end of this year as well, so if you keep him you are in a situation where he holds all the cards in negotiations.
And how about going with Murray next year instead of Samsonov. And retain salary on Mitch, Auston, and Willy since you are planning on the next 1 or 2 years to be a re-grouping period.

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13 mai 2023 à 14 h 10

#32

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Quoting: Messier99

If you are taking a step back, do you dump Marner as well. It seems he has a NMC that kicks in end of this year as well, so if you keep him you are in a situation where he holds all the cards in negotiations.
And how about going with Murray next year instead of Samsonov. And retain salary on Mitch, Auston, and Willy since you are planning on the next 1 or 2 years to be a re-grouping period.

I think no on Marner. I think he's the only one that I'm dead confident will re-sign if we keep a good team around him. So by getting absolute hauls for Nylander and Matthews you can do that.

I think because of the value that those two can bring, if done right, a full blown rebuild won't be needed, more of a retool.

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13 mai 2023 à 14 h 17

#33

hey look a squirrel

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Delete

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13 mai 2023 à 14 h 21

#34

Messier99

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Quoting: leafs101

I think no on Marner. I think he's the only one that I'm dead confident will re-sign if we keep a good team around him. So by getting absolute hauls for Nylander and Matthews you can do that.

I think because of the value that those two can bring, if done right, a full blown rebuild won't be needed, more of a retool.

This 2 years of NMC scared me a bit. A year from now when it's clear he won't re-sign - won't Marner just be in the exact same situation as you describe above with Auston and Willy leaving for nothing.

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 21

#35

Hakuna Matata

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Quoting: Messier99

If you are taking a step back, do you dump Marner as well. It seems he has a NMC that kicks in end of this year as well, so if you keep him you are in a situation where he holds all the cards in negotiations.
And how about going with Murray next year instead of Samsonov. And retain salary on Mitch, Auston, and Willy since you are planning on the next 1 or 2 years to be a re-grouping period.

Guess that's the plan per this forum lul

It's the same **** as we saw with kadri only no suspension

Watch were gonna trade for the sake of trading and these guys gonna do well or win with other teams

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 27

#36

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Quoting: aadoyle

Guess that's the plan per this forum lul

It's the same **** as we saw with kadri only no suspension

Watch were gonna trade for the sake of trading and these guys gonna do well or win with other teams

its not "trade for the sake of trading"

If they won't extend their contracts and you're left with nothing, the team is royally screwed for probably around the next decade.

If you trade them for proper hauls, it may mean avoiding another major dark period. That's just about the worst analogy I can think of for this, the Kadri trade that is.

It doesn't matter if they do well for other teams if they're just going to leave in a season anyways.

Saskleaf a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 33

#37

Hakuna Matata

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Modifié 13 mai 2023 à 14 h 41

Quoting: leafs101

its not "trade for the sake of trading"

If they won't extend their contracts and you're left with nothing, the team is royally screwed for probably around the next decade.

If you trade them for proper hauls, it may mean avoiding another major dark period. That's just about the worst analogy I can think of for this, the Kadri trade that is.

It doesn't matter if they do well for other teams if they're just going to leave in a season anyways.

It is. People are doing the same thing we saw with Kadri he's the problem get rid of him. We're gonna trade these guys lose in the end and meanwhile they gonna do better on their new teams win a cup and we get the quote kadri gave

Trading matthews = rebuild

Nylander u can but u need to be careful and ensure u can at least break even

Marner u are never winning that trade

13 mai 2023 à 14 h 37

#38

Hakuna Matata

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Modifié 13 mai 2023 à 14 h 43

Quoting: aadoyle

It is. People are doing the same thing we saw with Kadri he's the problem get rid of him. We're gonna trade these guys lose in the end and meanwhile they gonna do better on their new teams win a cup and we get the quote

Trading matthews = rebuild

Nylander u can but u need to be careful and ensure u can at least break even

Marner u are never winning that trade

My thoughts on 88/16 are simple: they should be open to moving them every offseason for the right price.However, they can't force themselves into a bad deal like they did with Kadri. It will likely be tough to get the haul necessary given the lack of term left on their deals.
— Kevin Papetti (@KPapetti) May 10, 2023

Marner as I said before u ain't winning or breaking even that trade. Nylander u can break even but do not rush anything or Kadri 2.0. Matthews being moved = rebuild

Leafs got almost 20mill and there are some nice options to add. Could even go aggressive on 1 year deals

Patches, ROR, Bertuzzi, Brown, etc

13 mai 2023 à 15 h 19

#39

MatthewsFan

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Quoting: Trickster

This might be unpopular but this core does not have enough fire or passion to get it done.

Time to rebuild, maybe it's the contract situations drivingmaybe it isn't.

My point is that stop accepting mediocrity, don't settle for 1 round playoff win.

We deserve better and this core is not gonna do it.

Bring back Dubas and go full on rebuild.

I’m fully on the rebuild train IF Matthews is uninterested in signing long-term, I would learn towards totally tearing it down and rebuilding.

Saskleaf a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 15 h 46

#40

Hakuna Matata

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Quoting: Trickster

This might be unpopular but this core does not have enough fire or passion to get it done.

Time to rebuild, maybe it's the contract situations drivingmaybe it isn't.

My point is that stop accepting mediocrity, don't settle for 1 round playoff win.

We deserve better and this core is not gonna do it.

Bring back Dubas and go full on rebuild.

A rebuild would be the worst thing to happen to this team since the Ayers loss. Prime definition of MLSE ****ing up

Only way u entertain is if Matthews says I dont want to stay.

Honestly its the WSH situation. Ovie isnt the guy trade him this team cant win, Pitts got their number blah blah blah. What happened 2018 won, could have blown it all up but they didnt. Same with St. Louis in 2019. Bring in a new HC, get aggressive this FA on 1 year deals, explore trades and they can go for it all

As imagine them bringing in

ROR, Patches, Brown on 1 year deals

Patches-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-JT-Marner
Jarnkrok-ROR-Brown
Lafferty-Holmberg-Acciari

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Holden-Liligren

13 mai 2023 à 17 h 2

#41

Random2152

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Quoting: MatthewsFan

I’m fully on the rebuild train IF Matthews is uninterested in signing long-term, I would learn towards totally tearing it down and rebuilding.

Quoting: aadoyle

A rebuild would be the worst thing to happen to this team since the Ayers loss. Prime definition of MLSE ****ing up

Only way u entertain is if Matthews says I dont want to stay.

Honestly its the WSH situation. Ovie isnt the guy trade him this team cant win, Pitts got their number blah blah blah. What happened 2018 won, could have blown it all up but they didnt. Same with St. Louis in 2019. Bring in a new HC, get aggressive this FA on 1 year deals, explore trades and they can go for it all

As imagine them bringing in

ROR, Patches, Brown on 1 year deals

Patches-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-JT-Marner
Jarnkrok-ROR-Brown
Lafferty-Holmberg-Acciari

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Holden-Liligren

You can tell how 'good' an idea the Leafs rebuilding is based on opposing fans creaming their pants after every leafs loss to trade away the core

13 mai 2023 à 17 h 27

#42

Hakuna Matata

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Quoting: Random2152

You can tell how 'good' an idea the Leafs rebuilding is based on opposing fans creaming their pants after every leafs loss to trade away the core

They would be doing it no matter what happened

Leafs win cup

Yea but Marner had no points in the finals trade him

Well what about Nylander he had 1 goal in 6 games worthless

Then Matthews

He didnt break 20 playoff goals let him walk

Or the big old. Fine they did it do it again lul

Got to love em sometimes

I dont think the fanbase will ever be happy as they will always find something or someone to complain about

13 mai 2023 à 18 h 4

#43

LeafsFanForSomeReason

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Just throwing sh*t at the wall here, but if Marner was to be moved could something around Ehlers work do you guys think?

Seems like changes are coming to the Jets and Ehlers doesn't really get the minutes you'd think for a player of his caliber. Leafs would be giving up the better player obviously, but Ehlers is no slouch. They'd still be getting an elite (or at least legit top line; semantics) player back, some extra cap space to work with and likely another asset or two on top of Nik (Brad Lambert please).

Idk, just a thought.

Saskleaf a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 18 h 52

#44

hey look a squirrel

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Quoting: MatthewsFan

I’m fully on the rebuild train IF Matthews is uninterested in signing long-term, I would learn towards totally tearing it down and rebuilding.

I been a big champion of Matthews but there is no denying he was a no show vs Florida when it counted

oneX a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 18 h 57

#45

hey look a squirrel

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Quoting: aadoyle

A rebuild would be the worst thing to happen to this team since the Ayers loss. Prime definition of MLSE ****ing up

Only way u entertain is if Matthews says I dont want to stay.

Honestly its the WSH situation. Ovie isnt the guy trade him this team cant win, Pitts got their number blah blah blah. What happened 2018 won, could have blown it all up but they didnt. Same with St. Louis in 2019. Bring in a new HC, get aggressive this FA on 1 year deals, explore trades and they can go for it all

As imagine them bringing in

ROR, Patches, Brown on 1 year deals

Patches-Matthews-Nylander
Knies-JT-Marner
Jarnkrok-ROR-Brown
Lafferty-Holmberg-Acciari

Rielly-Schenn
McCabe-Brodie
Holden-Liligren

Did you watch the same games?
Where was Matthews vs Florida?

Listen I know you want celebrate a round win but don't let it go to your head.

There have been higher expectations of this group and the one constant has been failure, not success

oneX a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 19 h 5

#46

MatthewsFan

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Quoting: Trickster

I been a big champion of Matthews but there is no denying he was a no show vs Florida when it counted

Even putting my own fandom of Matthews to the side, it’s not like the effort wasn’t there

Per @NatStatTrick, no one on any team in the second had more individual scoring chances (aka house attempts, 24) or high danger chances (aka goalmouth attempts, 14) than Auston Matthews.Here's a few of them, including a close call in OT last night https://t.co/zAtY5w4nKg pic.twitter.com/e8VuGsaKb8
— Jeff Veillette (@JeffVeillette) May 13, 2023

Yes, it’s a results driven game but sometimes you do have to tip your hat and give credit to where credit is due:

Sergei Bobrovsky saved 165 of 175 shots (.942) and nearly 8.5 goals above expected in five games. That’s the only thing you need to know about this series
— Alex Drain (@AlexDrain_NHL) May 13, 2023

I personally have more faith in Matthews coming back stronger, hopefully healthier (been enough images going around with his wrist) to believe that he can show he is a top player in this league regular season + playoffs.

IF he is willing to resign it would be nonsense not to. But IF he isn’t, tear it down to the studs. He is the only guy you build around

Saskleaf a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 19 h 10

#47

MatthewsFan

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Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason

Just throwing sh*t at the wall here, but if Marner was to be moved could something around Ehlers work do you guys think?

Seems like changes are coming to the Jets and Ehlers doesn't really get the minutes you'd think for a player of his caliber. Leafs would be giving up the better player obviously, but Ehlers is no slouch. They'd still be getting an elite (or at least legit top line; semantics) player back, some extra cap space to work with and likely another asset or two on top of Nik (Brad Lambert please).

Idk, just a thought.

I’m probably galaxy braining it but it’s difficult finding a landing spot for Marner. Could NJD want to swap Meier or Bratt? With Landeskog out all year, could the money work to get Byram?

I really like Ehlers, be great to just add him to the team. God knows we NEED a legit top 6 fwd IF they keep Matthews Marner Tavares Nylander

LeafsFanForSomeReason et Saskleaf a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 19 h 20

#48

hey look a squirrel

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Quoting: MatthewsFan

Even putting my own fandom of Matthews to the side, it’s not like the effort wasn’t there

Per @NatStatTrick, no one on any team in the second had more individual scoring chances (aka house attempts, 24) or high danger chances (aka goalmouth attempts, 14) than Auston Matthews.Here's a few of them, including a close call in OT last night https://t.co/zAtY5w4nKg pic.twitter.com/e8VuGsaKb8
— Jeff Veillette (@JeffVeillette) May 13, 2023

Yes, it’s a results driven game but sometimes you do have to tip your hat and give credit to where credit is due:

Sergei Bobrovsky saved 165 of 175 shots (.942) and nearly 8.5 goals above expected in five games. That’s the only thing you need to know about this series
— Alex Drain (@AlexDrain_NHL) May 13, 2023

I personally have more faith in Matthews coming back stronger, hopefully healthier (been enough images going around with his wrist) to believe that he can show he is a top player in this league regular season + playoffs.

IF he is willing to resign it would be nonsense not to. But IF he isn’t, tear it down to the studs. He is the only guy you build around

Remind me again how years we have been exiting the playoffs earlier then we thought again?
Wasn't just this time around right?

MatthewsFan, Saskleaf et oneX a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 19 h 48

#49

LeafsFanForSomeReason

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Quoting: MatthewsFan

I’m probably galaxy braining it but it’s difficult finding a landing spot for Marner. Could NJD want to swap Meier or Bratt? With Landeskog out all year, could the money work to get Byram?

I really like Ehlers, be great to just add him to the team. God knows we NEED a legit top 6 fwd IF they keep Matthews Marner Tavares Nylander

I wondered about those NJD guys too. Can't see them willing to trade Meier having just acquired him and him fitting the bill for what they wanted in "hard skill" or whatever they called it.

Feel like the Byram one may be a bit galaxy brain, but that's just me.

MatthewsFan a aimé ceci.

13 mai 2023 à 21 h 7

#50