I dont see us getting anything close for Marner

As to me any trade for Marner is just gonna be an instant loss unless we somehow sucker another team to overpay. Very few teams gonna want that 11mill. Its basically gonna be Kadri 2.0 we get players A and B they dont do well with us but Marner just goes to his new team and just does way better.

Nylander u could probs move way easier and he might give u a full on reason to if he asks for to much or isnt committed. Hes the guy I see us breaking even on in a trade scenario but also likely for another Kadri

Matthews u trade that man its rebuild time lul.

But to me with the cap space (20Mill if they move or buyout Murray) they could have get aggressive this offseason on 1 year deals

Patches, Bertuzzi, ROR, Brown, etc

But knowing how things probs will go we will trade players A and B and get meh returns and then F it all up.

Your not wrong and if this was the NBA where one guy can win you a championship I’d with this.

But again, Bobrovsky was amazing this Series and Matthews and Co did show up against TBL. I’m just as frustrated with the outcome this year (just like year’s previous) but Matthews is a legit top 5 player in this league. I still believe that. 🤷‍♂️

Yep. If we watch him u could tell he was not 100%. Like his off the rush wrist shot never happened and last year when he scored 60 saw it time and time again. To me u extend than do everything in your orgs power to get him better. Whatever treatment he needs get er done

As last years Matthews was the real Matthews. This was 75% healthy Matthews.

Then u get someone in FA who can play with him, protect him, and also pot some goals (Bertuzzi, Patches, etc)

Like the leafs almost have if not 20mill go aggressive on a bunch of 1 year expensive deals on guys we know can make a sure impact

There are a lot of options via FA

Patches
ROR
Brown
Killorn
Bertuzzi
Dadonov
Kane
Zucker (probs wont come to Canada but who knows)
Tatar
Barbashev
Athinoseau

U also explore trades but dont just trade for the sake of a trade

The big 4 have not given Leafs much of a break in contract negotiations (except for maybe Tavares, whose deal looks the worst now). Getting UFA as soon as they can, squeezing extra money out of organization.
So what do we think Matthews is worth - $12.5M? Let's say he wants $15M. The only way his value really goes down in the final season is with major injury. So there is no incentive for him to extend, except to help the team - something he has shown to care little about. The upside for him of waiting is that cap goes up another year, and he gets multiple teams to bid.
Next comes Nylander, is he worth about $9M? Will he ask for $11M. same arguments as above.
So do you overpay these 2 guys by $4M or $5M for some certainty. That's a pretty good 3rd line player, and sets the precedent for Marner to squeeze $2+M more out of the Leafs.

Matthews and Nylander are the easy ones, as Leafs will know within a week if they are re-signable. If not, I think you have to trade.
Marner is the hardest one. Either you estimate whether you will or won't sign him, but Marner won't/can't make any promises and will leverage the NMC for all the cash he can.

Looking at the Leafs roster, there are a lot of UFA's. By definition, UFA's make more. Leafs need to get younger to get more players with some team control, with whom they can sign team friendly contracts.

Here would be my argument to AM. U want 15mill well u didnt play like that guy who would have got it last year here's 13mill. He's the highest paid NHL player till McDavid's next deal

Nylander probs is gone this summer. As if there is a guy u can win or break even on its him

Marner probs a slight raise 11mill x 8 years

JT gone in the summer. U dont trade Matthews as if u do that signals rebuild. Even if he does not commit u try and convince him by the TDL they got what it takes

They got 20mill to spend and if we look here are the holes

?-Matthews-Marner
Knies-JT-Nylander
?-?-?
Lafferty-Holmberg-McMann/Steeves/Abruzzese/ETC

Rielly-Brodie
McCabe-Liligren
Gio-Timmins

Woll/Samsonov

Murray per a report might just spend the rest on LTIR like Smith and Muzzin

Was doing the maths and man with the cap they got Leafs can be really scary this offseason

Geekie 1.5mill x 2 years
Bertuzzi 5.5mill x 4 years
Holden 900k x 1 year (could honestly also do Raifai league min x 2 years)
Trade 1st + Liligren and maybe someone else for Konecney
Extend Acciari + Schenn + Samsonov

22 man team 150k in cap left lul

Cant tell me thats not terrifying

Basically 2 30 goal scorers added (Bertuzzi when healthy can do it) and all it cost was Liligren

Now that the off-season is here, the big question is the core 4. Obviously Tavares isn’t going anywhere since no one is going to want him at his cap hit and he has a NMC, but the other 3 could be on the move. Personally, I think trading Matthews might make sense at this point. LA seems like the most likely destination to me. I made a ACGM about it, if anyone wants to see it it’s here . I also randomly thought about maybe something along the lines of Matthews and a goalie for PLD/Schiefele and Hellebuyuk but maybe that’s just crazy thinking.

Trading Matthews signals rebuild. Unless u trade him and bring in someone better there is no going for it when hes gone. Its rebuild get rid of everyone. No ROR coming back, Nylander and Marner aint here anymore, blow it up and lets start fresh

U move Nylander or Marner it signals retool k this didnt work lets try this.

Personally this offseason presents something fascinating as Leafs got a lot of cap to work with. They can bring in 2 5mill forwards even with the big 4 signed.

U can explore trades but just imagine Toronto going out and bringing Bertuzzi and trading for Konecney, Labanc, or any other 5mill available forward and adding one or two of them to this team. Above I explored something and man u dont sacrifice much but Liligren. But at the same time u can also explore a Nylander or Marner

I get what you’re saying but I’m not sure I necessarily agree. I think with the right moves you could retool with a Matthews trade but you do have a point. If you’re trading Matthews, might as well just go all in on the rebuild.

To me u tread the trade table carefully or we end up with another Kadri. He was the problem bye. Kerfoot and Barrie are gonna be such fun. End of season, WTF were we doing

But now the shocking part

For the first time in like 3 years or something Leafs actually have cap space to use and not just a little on one guy. I mean almost 20mill. ****ing use it. And surprisingly u can keep the core (insanity) and bring in 2 5mill wingers when was the last time they could do that if ever.

Just imagine them adding Bertuzzi and trading for Konecney (Liligren + 1st and maybe another pick) thats 2 tough SOB's for this team and a massive boost to offense or convincing Patches to sign a 1 year 6mill deal

U still got room to add a 1.5-2mill 3c, extend Sammy for around 4mill, and bring Acciari back

Idk Hockey Gods have thrown a curveball rn and its both amazing and scary. As if they had no space and stuff would say move Marner. But almost 20mill is sitting there rn its nuts. But like EDM did with Kane and Hyman they can literally keep everyone and bring in 2 incredible players without sacrificing a thing

I’m not worried about a Kadri situation. This team NEEDS a shake up. It’s not working the way it is

In general were in the same situation as him which is why I am worried as I do not want to trade for the sake of trading lose it and then Nylander, Marner are holding a cup and going FU while your stuck with Kerfoot 2.0 and Barrie

No thanks

Pappetti said it best

The Leafs just lost to a team that shipped out a 100-point forward(Huberdeau) and a key top 4 defenseman(Weegar) last offseason.

Tkachucks was an RFA signed to an 8 year deal and look how that deal turned out for CGY

Now could it work for us sure but I just don't see a team giving us that for 2 years of Marner or 1 year of Nylander

Now with Willy u could break even in a trade buy marner I feel instant L unless someone massively overpaying

We got 20mill to spend don't blow a potential rare opportunity

It’s not making a trade for the sake of making a trade! Something desperately needs to be done. I’m not saying trade Matthews for Gabe Vilardi and a 7th, but a trade needs to be made. Someone is going to pay for these guys.

The only way to get rid of Tavares is if you trade Marner, Matthews, and Nylander - all for picks and not for players over drinking age (in USA). That signals full rebuild to him and he will gladly leave to any team that is trying to win now.
But as long as there is some hope - I think he refuses to leave.

Reminds me of the Sundin situation in his final year. Leafs said (by there actions) that they will see if Sundin and lift the Team into playoffs. Leafs should have said that they will bench some good players, trade others, and clearly show to Sundin he won't have the tools to make playoffs. Sundin would have gladly left - and Leafs gotten a 1st rounder in exchange.

Funny thing is - Calgary had more regular season points than Florida. but missed the playoffs.

but the reason I'd trade Matthews/Nylander isn't performance based unlike Kadri with his disciplinary actions. Its a completely different though train. Its because, if they don't commit this summer, they are likely to leave. So you'd need to make sure you don't get left empty handed.

If Matthews/Nylander and even Marner were RFAs, or if they were signed for another 4 or 5 years or even if they showed the team a break by signing team friendly deals in the past - I don't think we would entertain trading them. The fact is that each will leverage their situation to squeeze as much out of the Leafs as possible - ensuring that we are a 2-line team for years to come, with spare parts making up the bottom half of the line-up.

If Hubderdeau doesnt bounce back man that trades gonna be bad in the end

But yea kind of funny lul

This was 4 years ago, crazy how the narrative has changed.

In general u trade Nylander or Marner your probs losing a trade

Nylander u might break even but I feel another Kadri like scenerio would happen

Kerfoot and Barrie oh great return...Few months later (these guys stink) meanwhile Kadri cruising

Explore all options but be ****ing careful lul

So after taking some time to think about not just these playoffs but the last 4 years, what I'm more frustrated about is the lack of urgency in the core guys. It's doubley frustrating when you see Tampa and Florida players play with urgency in their games and nevermind surpassing theirs, the Leafs can't seem to match it.

I am surprised that urgency has not been mentioned once yet in this new thread and really guys, am I just imagining things? Or is the lack of urgency something really big and missing from this core?

See my post and you will understand why I'm not against your idea. I'm just royally pissed that nevermind losing because losing some times happens but that urgency wasn't there for me.

I'm not someone who is in favor of splitting up this core yet, but if you put me on the spot and told me I had to move ONE of the core 4, I think it would be Mitch...

Marner is and has been my favourite Leaf since we drafted him. I love his style of play and the local connection. He is what I craved on a Leafs team after having to watch the Kessel era for so long. It really comes down to the fact that we can't move Tavares, Nylander is just too perfect for what this team needs, and Matthews is one of the greatest Leafs of all time. The day Mitch Marner gets traded will probably be the single most painful day I can realistically imagine as a Leafs fan (I can't even fathom AM34 leaving), but if we can swing a Pacioretty kind of deal to get a good roster player, high end young prospect, and a draft pick, then I wouldn't necessarily be opposed.

Now, trying to identify a team that can facilitate that cap hit while also having good enough prospects is tough. Something surrounding Shane Wright or Quinton Byfield could be fun...

The whole thing about this "core shakeup" conversation is that it illustrates how good this core is. If Mitch is seen as the weakest link here, then that just shows you how great our core is. In my opinion, we need to ride it out. Get a new head coach and build a proper team AROUND the core. Get someone half decent behind the bench who gets these guys going and can carve out clear identities for each line. We can do great things with this core, the question is will we do it?