May just be left hand not knowing what right hand was doing….hard to see connection between the two.

wonder when the next bettman extension is coming!

I think there's more value to keeping this discussion centralized and away from the other ongoing discussions: this piece deserves it's due, don't get me wrong.

There is value in being critical of the names involved, especially those who end up charged and those who looked to cover this incident (and those past) up instead of allowing justice to take its proper course. I take issue - and everyone should - with misguided outrage. It is very easy, and very tempting right now, to start to direct the anger, shame, and judgement these scandals have wrought at the five men who have taken absence from their clubs. There is a growing amount of reason to suggest these are the names we're looking for.

But we do not yet have absolute certainty. What if we're wrong and those five are not the names in question? It's a slim chance but it is still a nonzero chance. There is a reason why Rick Westhead specifically has not gone on to name the players themselves and it's that same lack of 100% certainty that he's currently abiding by that I would ask the community here to emulate.

Furthermore, once the names do get released, what purpose does vitriol aimed at those five serve? As I stated in the other thread, the most important discussion we can be having right now is "What can I/we do to affect change?". To me, that does more good for those affected by this scandal or others similar to it. How do we as a community ensure there isn't another Jane Doe or Kyle Beach? What is more important is their justice, their stories coming to light, and the hockey community as a whole doing something productive with that information instead of just getting angry at the individuals responsible.

I don't want to cover up this case or the others like it, but I've also never found myself in a situation where I've had to moderate something like this. I doubt the other moderators have either. Any decisions we've made to this point surrounding how this conversation should unfold on these forums has strictly been from a point of "what does the community the most good" without ignoring the seriousness of the topic at hand. Likewise, the userbase here is likely just as new to these conversations. Neither side is going to get this thing 100% right. You (as a collective) are probably going to disagree with how the moderators and I handle elements of this discussion. Likewise, we're going to disagree with how some of these conversations are approached by the masses. Keep working with us to have these conversations. The sport, forums, and community at large are better off for it!

This case is actually very similar to Duke Lacrosse, which ended with complete exoneration for the accused, humiliation for the overzealous left wing prosecutor, the fake news media, and the accuser. I'm gonna wait for the physical evidence and eyewitness testimony, if there is any, before condemning these young men. I'd suggest everyone do the same, but that's asking a lot these days.

was just thinking about that yesterday.

if this is all false, the players rep will still be ruined

This take doesn’t make sense to me considering that it was the Utah group that released the statement on expansion. All the NHL did was respond. Not saying it’s impossible that the NHL told Utah to release at at this time but seems unlikely to me

Intentional or not it is definitely horrible timing though

Duke Lacrosse, the UVA Rolling Stone case, the Judge Kavanaugh case. There have been many that have turned out to be false. In real time, public judgement was decided, it was guilty. There was a study in Canada that showed the percentage of cases that turned out to be probably false has doubled since me too movement began (from 7% to 14%). Other studies have shown much higher figures for false claims.

None of us have not seen the evidence, heard from the accuser, or heard anything from the defense (other than 4-out-of-5 have publicly denied). No one is able to determine innocence from guilt yet…so all judgements should be reserved.

If guilty, justice will be served. If innocent, I hope the same is true.

Dubé’s absence is explained to be mental health related, and I’ll believe the Calgary Flames organization until further notice

Alex Formenton has turned himself in to the London Police making him (officially now), one of the 5 players possibly involved in sexually assaulting a woman in a hotel room

Uhhhhhh what????? Keep your silly political delusions out of here, dude. Cmon. You know better.

Not being political at all. Just factual. Many of the women we were told to believe have themselves admitted they lied.

AP: Kavanaugh accuser admits to making up rape accusation as ‘tactic’
USA Today: Another Kavanaugh accuser referred to FBI after recanting

It’s just the reality that while many of these cases are never reported, many of the ones that are reported turn out to be false. In Canada, one-in-seven are unfounded . Relative to other crimes, that is extremely high.

I haven’t seen if there is data related to higher profile cases such as these, but there is some similarities between those I listed and this case. Especially since in public responses.

Just best to reserve judgement.

I'm going to ignore your Kavanaugh nonsense, as it has no place here. Never should have brought him up.

HOWEVER... this whole thing where people pretend some large number of rape accusations are false is straight bull****. Narrowing it down to Canada is disingenuous and you should not be bringing that trash notion in here, either. Last time I checked six of seven ain't exactly a large number, and that's before we even get to all the assaults that don't get reported.

People can make up their own minds about the examples I used and who is being political and who is being rational here.

I said don’t rush to judgment.

I brought up a Canadian statistics because this occurred in Canada.

It’s not being disingenuous.

This overtly BS comment, the one I was talking about, made no allusion to Canada.

"It’s just the reality that while many of these cases are never reported, many of the ones that are reported turn out to be false."

It was general speaking, and it was wrong, and it IS dangerous, and it has no place here. It matters not if you somehow imagine that 86% accurate reports is something to throw general doubt on. It's an unwelcome comment any way you want to slice it. And it's f'ed up I have to explain that.

False reports for other crimes tend to be between 0.2% to 1.0%….when one jumps to 14%…that is a significant outlier.

You are attacking someone saying, “reserve judgement”

Just let it play out…we haven’t heard either side tell their story yet.

It is kinda weird to refer to something as "the Kavanaugh case" that isn't, you know, The Kavanaugh Case.

I am not sure I follow

The credible one we heard testimony about at his confirmation hearings, which are not proven false. Rather than some random person that emailed the committee which nobody had even heard about.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/sources-confirm-nhl-players-facing-charges-in-sexual-assault-investigation-1.2069570

Appears that the 5 players who were given a leave of absence are the ones being charged.

Extremely disappointed in Calgary for framing Dube's leave of absense as a mental health issue.

And as suspected, we can now officially say Dillon Dube, Carter Hart, Mike McLeod, Cal Foote and Alex Formenton were the 5 names told to surrender top the police https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/sources-confirm-nhl-players-facing-charges-in-sexual-assault-investigation-1.2069570

Dube could have more than 1 thing going on, one doesn't exclude the other, there's a chance he does have a mental health issues AND is a part of this case, however, yes, I will give you that that doesn't reflect great on Calgary

I mean look at the season he was having, it's clear the outcome of this case was affecting him. His career is on line + everything else involved. He's definitely going to be battling mental health issues. Not victim blaming here, don't put words in my mouth please.

Just spoke with Kurt Overhardt, the agent for Cal Foote. He said the due diligence was done on the alleged sexual assault at the Hockey Canada Gala in 2018 and it was determined that Cal Foote was not involved in any way. Now we're up to Foote, Makar, Fabbro and Gadjovich. - Ken Campbell on Twitter

THIS DID NOT AGE WELL

Devils forward Michael McLeod charged with sexual assault, lawyers say

The lawyers for #flyers goalie Carter Hart confirm that he has been charged with one count of sexual assault and say he will provide a "full response to this false allegation in th proper forum, a court of law."