Theirs stats, then theirs eye test and as Dangle put it Holl cannot be the top 4 guy going into a Stanley Cup run vs. Tampa

We have seen him fail us time and time again at first we thought it was Muzzin getting hurt, now I think its just the player. Hes a good Pker but man 5 on 5 idk I feel we could do better. And some of the decisions this guy makes make Jake Gardiner look sane.

I do not trust a Gio-Holl shutdown pair going up against Tampa

If we move Holl out for Tanev, Gudas, or Jensen would be very happy

In general Holl to me is to much of a wildcard to go thats a guy I trust in a shutdown role vs. Tampa. Past playoffs one could argue not great for him.

Leafs shutdown pair rn is Gio-Holl, Last year it was Muzzin-Brodie

I know Tampa lost McDonagh and Palat and look a tad weaker this year but I do not trust a Gio-Holl shutdown pair vs. Stamkos, Point, Kucherov, etc.

We need an upgrade to play with Gio and whose good at NET FRONT DEFENSE

As as I have seen these past 3 games its almost free real-estate there

Like rn I see

Rielly-Brodie
Gio-?
Sandin-Liligren

Now I do want to keep Holl but as the #7 with Timmy being #8

The Leafs tap on a modern type of defense, with mobile players that contribute on both ends of the ice. The league as a whole seems to be moving in that direction.

If you like old school hockey, with tougher guys and a strong net front presence, our D doesn't look solid. But in a system based on possession and speed, they are doing pretty well. They look good at retrieving pucks and exiting their zone quickly.

To me, Holl kinda fit that modern system. I don't see who could replace him among those mentioned here, except Tanev or a left-handed replacement. Tanev would be a great fit, but that would require the Flames to tank before the deadline. For others like Gudas and Jensen, I'm not convinced.

Our weaker link is that Sandin and Lili are still young (22/23), and D is the most difficult position to play. Even Marner and Matthews made mistakes at that age, and they play an easier position. But I'm willing to bet on them for the playoffs. Lili seems ready to be top 4 this year.

In general the main concern I have is with the shutdown pairing

Sandin-Liligren is a good third pairing and while they are young they are 6th best Dpairing in XGF and XGA

Rielly-Brodie is a pairing that works and doesnt work

But Gio-Holl to me does not scream proper shutdown pairing

Last year we ran

Rielly-Lybushkin
Muzzin-Brodie
Gio-Liligren/Holl


And I agree Tanev's probs a long shot but if CGY is out come TDL maybe if u offer the right deal Treliving will bite. As for Jensen hes a nice shutdown guy who does his job but if we look at Gio idk if he would work. Another caps Dman TVR is having a very interesting season defensively doing better then most expected but idk outlier seasons scare me lul

Wish we would have traded for Demelo 3 years ago as it would have been perfect

Rielly-Demelo
Gio-Brodie
Sandin-Liligren

RIP serevalli lul

Man actually said Timo Meier is gonna cost less

How many times did we hear 1st + Knies + Minten + Kerfoot +++++++

Dubas paid 4 picks (all expected to be low but OTT's 3rd) a C level prospect and a borderline 4thliner for ROR and Acciari.

And we keep hearing its gonna cost NJ one or two 1sts + Holtz so lul I dont see how thats cheaper as RFA's cost more than rentals

The insiders are so hit or miss. You've either got Seravalli leaking the entire Kraken roster or Kypreos saying Clarke is going to Arizona in a Chychrun deal. Even extremely credible guys like Friedman are very careful in their wording to ensure they have an excuse if their info is wrong. I remember last offseason Friedman said Acciari was going to Toronto (which was eventually right I guess), and said Mikheyev was likely going to Washington. That ROR deal completely exposed every NHL insider.

In general Frank saying ROR is good Feb 16 then going hes washed yesterday shows how much BS this guy has lul

Like he literally went oh if Canes get him AHO + ROR + STAAL = CUP feb 16th

Also Acciari almost happened before NAK but I guess we didnt offer enough.

Now get that extension done DUBAS

So my comment is for you and @Nathaniel.

Basically, Tampa is going to force the Leafs to play a style that the Leafs really are not great at and part of that will be that net front presence that @aadoyle has been referring to.

Now while Holl's advanced stats may tell you overall he's fine, the problem is that this series is going to come down to a single game and perhaps just a play or two and this is where Holl fails and the advanced stats don't really help.

So the question is, can Dubas acquire a D who plays second pair and can make those critical couple of plays that will probably be the difference in a very tight series?

Truthfully, I don't see Holl being able to make said plays and then couple that with needing a 2LW, there's just only so many assets left to deal away.

I just want to point out one small thing.

The leafs system (under dubas and keefe) has nothing to do with speed. In fact we're overall a pretty slow team who plays a slower style of hockey

Toronto doesn't really need a 2LW anymore the ROR trade has ended that

If CGY is out by the TDL I call them about Tanev

If we go cheaper Brauns not awful but doesn't really move the needle

But if our 2024 1st comes into play 100% it's for a Dman with term

But in general if we look last year Toronto beat Tampa 5 on 5, special teams depth scoring and goaltending let them down

Especially depth scoring as in last elimination game our issue wasn't defense but depth scoring as Tampa lost point and Paul hands them 2 goals?

Dubas addressed 3 areas of concern now we just need to improve our shut down pair

We got some slow and fast elements here and there like Engvall and Jarnkrok man can they skate. JT and GIO not so much but hey different elements are what make a team great

Sure we have some fast players, but the actual system is slow, and we have plenty of slow players

Per Friedman Toronto almost had Barbashev as part of the 3 team trade but there were complications as Dubas wanted to keep everyone together till the TDL when they could get a full picture of what they needed

Sucks as I wouldnt have minded adding him and sending Kerfoot to St. Louis

Plus

Bunting-Matthews-Nylander
Barbashev-Tavares-Marner
Engvall-ROR-Jarnkrok
ZAR-Kampf-Acciari

Curious to get opinions on this:

If O’Rielly walks and we only get say, 1 round or 2 rounds of playoff hockey, would this trade still be a success in your eyes.

Last year, Chris Drury traded a prospect, a 1st, a 2nd, and a 5th for Andrew Copp. He was a great fit and the Rangers went on a deep run, ultimately coming up short. Drury still has a job. This huge overreaction to the ROR trade illustrates just how idiotic the Toronto media / media covering Toronto is. Literally every single team trying to win a cup goes out and trades for a pending UFA, but as soon as Toronto does it, it is "make or break". I think Dubas going out to get ROR is a slam dunk and shows this team that we want to win. We aren't just throwing in the towel because we have to face Tampa, we are going out and we are going to fight to the bitter end with these juggernauts. I'm curious if Seravalli would've rather just have Dubas do nothing as it seems in his eyes that trading futures is some grand risk the Leafs are taking and something we have never seen before. This is the same man who linked Tony DeAngelo to Toronto before he signed with Carolina. It's infuriating to see this narrative spun about the ROR trade as if trading for a Conn Smythe, Cup winning 2 way monster was some misfire. People preach experienced players until they become Leafs. I personally love the deal even as a rental regardless of the outcome because it shows we are trying. Im pretty confident ROR will be resigned anyways, but regardless I think the trade was great

In general FEB 16 this man said AHO + ROR + STAAL = Winner + Cup fav

Toronto trades for him oh no they ****ed up FEB 17

Sorry but MATTHEWS + JT + ROR is better than the C core above u claimed is a cup fav Mr. Serevalli

This man just digging himself a grave that is gonna reach China soon

Love the passion!

Completely agree, the narrative that it is only "sink or swim" for the Leafs but when teams like FLA do it's ok.

I'd probably compare the Leafs moves to FLA, since the NYR still have a 2023 (1st, 2nd, 3rd), 2024 (1st, 2nd, 3rd), and 2025 (1st, 3rd, 2 4ths, 2 5ths) after all their moves.

I am on the fence with not resigning a 32 C to a 3 or 4 year deal when we have Matthews and Nylander coming up. Not to mention a few other contracts that are up but for me locking up Auston and Willy should be priority number 1 and 2 going forward.

Picks are picks, that I am not too concerned over but I still have issues with acquiring an aging vet who is a UFA instead of someone who can be here for multiple runs and grow with the organization.

But I really wanted a C who could play some wing and Ryan O'Rielly fits that bill. He makes us a better team today.

And in the future as honestly Leafs could extend him.

We probs know Murray gets moved due to Sammy's emergence and Woll requiring waivers for 2023-2024

Gives us space to extend

ROR for 6.5mill
Acciari for 1.65mill
and
Bunting 4mill

Is anyone out there in need of a goalie? Can we trade Murray now?
The key in the Gilmour years was the trade of Grant Fuhr for Dave Andreychuck.
We took the chance that Felix Potvin was ready.
Now we are just asking Woll and/or Källgren to be back-ups.
I don't think we are planning on upgrading our goaltending, so maybe is makes sense to trade some insurance in goal for a player up front (D).

It would take the sting off, but ultimately no.

Trading Murray now would be a mistake

U need 3 good goalies going into the playoffs

In a sense yes as unlike Florida we didnt spend 3 1sts to do it. And if doing it = Matthews agreeing to extend without delay BIG FAT W

As this years playoffs could equivalate to him staying or going

With the Leafs in BUF, still one of my favourite Matthews goals

Some of his best goals have come against the Sabres. That one, leaping wrap-around, rocket in the dying seconds of OT, undressed an opponent and had Dahlin playing goalie...

And that's just off the top of my head

ROR first goal as a Leaf