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2021-2022 NHL Offseason Discussion Thread #12 - On The Links

27 août 2022 à 9 h 11
#176
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Alright, so I’m reading NHL.com’s list of the New York Islanders top 5 prospects. The list itself is actually surprisingly accurate (there’s maybe a few things I’d switch around but it would be nitpicking.) So the reason I’m writing this post is not to berate on the list but take a look at a few quotes from Lou Lamiorello in this article. Some of his quotes encapsulate why I hate him and how he runs the islanders so much. Let’s take a look:

1. Aatu Raty: "I'm from the school of I'd rather have them come up a little later than too soon," Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "He'll be in the American Hockey League, unless he just jumps off the charts in training camp, which you never know."- unless the islanders sign Sonny Milano, which I find unlikely at this point, Raty is very likely a top 12 forward on this team. And why would you rather start them a little late? Shouldn’t you wanna start them at the right time? Sure maybe that’s a hard thing to do but that’s his job

3. William Dufour: "What impressed me the most about William was his play in the World Juniors defensively," Lamoriello said. "We're talking about a young man who has come from nowhere, if that's an expression to use."- sure defensive play is great but we have enough forwards who are praised by Lou for their defensive play. Dufour was a PPG player at the WJC mainly playing on the third line, I think that’s more impressive than his defensive play. And I don’t understand why Lou added in that last part

4. Simon Holmstrom: "Simon had a breakout year," Lamoriello said. "He came over at 18, so it's his third year, but he's already you know, been a pro for three years. We're anxious to see what he does in training camp."- hate to break it to Lou, but 48 points in the AHL after being a 1st round pick is not a breakout year. You could probably argue it’s a bad year for someone his age

There may not be much of a point to this mini rant, but I was bored, so oh well
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27 août 2022 à 9 h 29
#177
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Alright, so I’m reading NHL.com’s list of the New York Islanders top 5 prospects. The list itself is actually surprisingly accurate (there’s maybe a few things I’d switch around but it would be nitpicking.) So the reason I’m writing this post is not to berate on the list but take a look at a few quotes from Lou Lamiorello in this article. Some of his quotes encapsulate why I hate him and how he runs the islanders so much. Let’s take a look:

1. Aatu Raty: "I'm from the school of I'd rather have them come up a little later than too soon," Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "He'll be in the American Hockey League, unless he just jumps off the charts in training camp, which you never know."- unless the islanders sign Sonny Milano, which I find unlikely at this point, Raty is very likely a top 12 forward on this team. And why would you rather start them a little late? Shouldn’t you wanna start them at the right time? Sure maybe that’s a hard thing to do but that’s his job

3. William Dufour: "What impressed me the most about William was his play in the World Juniors defensively," Lamoriello said. "We're talking about a young man who has come from nowhere, if that's an expression to use."- sure defensive play is great but we have enough forwards who are praised by Lou for their defensive play. Dufour was a PPG player at the WJC mainly playing on the third line, I think that’s more impressive than his defensive play. And I don’t understand why Lou added in that last part

4. Simon Holmstrom: "Simon had a breakout year," Lamoriello said. "He came over at 18, so it's his third year, but he's already you know, been a pro for three years. We're anxious to see what he does in training camp."- hate to break it to Lou, but 48 points in the AHL after being a 1st round pick is not a breakout year. You could probably argue it’s a bad year for someone his age

There may not be much of a point to this mini rant, but I was bored, so oh well


I mean depending against who Dufour got his points, I wouldn’t say PPG on the third line is amazing, if he got most of his points vs garbage opponents, that’s kinda expected of him.
for Raty, starting them late is better than starting them early which is more or less Lou’s point. Also, I wouldn’t say Raty is a clear top 12 forward, Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck is and will always be your 4th line, you have guys like Barzal, Lee, Bailey, Palmieri, Nelson, Beau, Pageau, Wahlstrom, that leaves 1 top 9 spot in which I’d argue Parise or Bellows has a higher shot of getting than Raty
27 août 2022 à 10 h 11
#178
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan
I mean depending against who Dufour got his points, I wouldn’t say PPG on the third line is amazing, if he got most of his points vs garbage opponents, that’s kinda expected of him.
for Raty, starting them late is better than starting them early which is more or less Lou’s point. Also, I wouldn’t say Raty is a clear top 12 forward, Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck is and will always be your 4th line, you have guys like Barzal, Lee, Bailey, Palmieri, Nelson, Beau, Pageau, Wahlstrom, that leaves 1 top 9 spot in which I’d argue Parise or Bellows has a higher shot of getting than Raty


Martin is not an NHL caliber forward and clutterbuck is a fringe NHLer. Teams shouldn't go into training camp with their bottom 6 set, allow for competition and if you have to send a vet to the press box then you have to do it.

I'd argue Raty is better than at least 4 Isles forwards already.
27 août 2022 à 10 h 13
#179
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Quoting: AndrewLadd
Alright, so I’m reading NHL.com’s list of the New York Islanders top 5 prospects. The list itself is actually surprisingly accurate (there’s maybe a few things I’d switch around but it would be nitpicking.) So the reason I’m writing this post is not to berate on the list but take a look at a few quotes from Lou Lamiorello in this article. Some of his quotes encapsulate why I hate him and how he runs the islanders so much. Let’s take a look:

1. Aatu Raty: "I'm from the school of I'd rather have them come up a little later than too soon," Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "He'll be in the American Hockey League, unless he just jumps off the charts in training camp, which you never know."- unless the islanders sign Sonny Milano, which I find unlikely at this point, Raty is very likely a top 12 forward on this team. And why would you rather start them a little late? Shouldn’t you wanna start them at the right time? Sure maybe that’s a hard thing to do but that’s his job

3. William Dufour: "What impressed me the most about William was his play in the World Juniors defensively," Lamoriello said. "We're talking about a young man who has come from nowhere, if that's an expression to use."- sure defensive play is great but we have enough forwards who are praised by Lou for their defensive play. Dufour was a PPG player at the WJC mainly playing on the third line, I think that’s more impressive than his defensive play. And I don’t understand why Lou added in that last part

4. Simon Holmstrom: "Simon had a breakout year," Lamoriello said. "He came over at 18, so it's his third year, but he's already you know, been a pro for three years. We're anxious to see what he does in training camp."- hate to break it to Lou, but 48 points in the AHL after being a 1st round pick is not a breakout year. You could probably argue it’s a bad year for someone his age

There may not be much of a point to this mini rant, but I was bored, so oh well


If Raty has a great camp, he should definitely get a 9 game look. I don't understand why he should already be ticketed for BPT when there are players like Martin, clutter, Johnston and Bailey on this roster.
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27 août 2022 à 10 h 17
#180
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Quoting: Db1899
Martin is not an NHL caliber forward and clutterbuck is a fringe NHLer. Teams shouldn't go into training camp with their bottom 6 set, allow for competition and if you have to send a vet to the press box then you have to do it.

I'd argue Raty is better than at least 4 Isles forwards already.


I think it's about role as well, which are thought of strongly in Islanders. They seem to favor a fit to a certain role more than the actual ability of a player - it's no wonder they sign those fringe NHLers like Martin or f*cking Ross Johnston with 4 year deals - it's cuz they want to keep "role players" intact. This applied to Cizikas with his 6 year deal as well.
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27 août 2022 à 10 h 19
#181
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Quoting: justaBoss
I think it's about role as well, which are thought of strongly in Islanders. They seem to favor a fit to a certain role more than the actual ability of a player - it's no wonder they sign those fringe NHLers like Martin or f*cking Ross Johnston with 4 year deals - it's cuz they want to keep "role players" intact. This applied to Cizikas with his 6 year deal as well.


I agree, but they can't play that role anymore, so you put someone like Parise on that line who can fill that role and drive some offense. Martin and Ross are not NHL caliber F
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27 août 2022 à 11 h 39
#182
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This is awesome! Very happy for Naz
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27 août 2022 à 13 h 18
#183
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gonna miss not having kadri around. he was clutch in the playoffs
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27 août 2022 à 13 h 22
#184
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Quoting: Tintin
iirc the cap increased by an average of 4.5% year by year the seasons between the 12-13 lockout and the 19-20 pandemic, seems like a reasonable foundation to peg any future assumptions to.
Given that the league is projecting revenue at record levels for this season and onward, I could see the post 23-24 increase be around 4%.

4% increase (year by year) post 2024 will have the upper cap limit at the following amounts:
23-24 - 83 500 000
24-25 - 86 840 000
25-26 - 90 313 600
26-27 - 93 926 144
27-28 - 97 683 190

This 4% estimate may be a little bit conservative though.
Also it may not be a straight line increase either, more likely a smaller bump at 3.5-4% for the 24-25 season due to lingering escrow liabilities, to later stabilize at an average year by year increase closer to 5%.


Probs would see those numbers round up to .5 or full as thats usually how the league likes to work (71.5, 73, 75, 79.5, 81.5, 82.5, etc) so 87mill, 90mill, 94mill, 98mill or if they go by .5 funky basis they seem to like (86.5, 90mill, 93.5mill, 97mill)
27 août 2022 à 13 h 26
#185
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Quoting: aadoyle
Probs would see those numbers round up to .5 or full as thats usually how the league likes to work (71.5, 73, 75, 79.5, 81.5, 82.5, etc) so 87mill, 90mill, 94mill, 98mill or if they go by .5 funky basis they seem to like (86.5, 90mill, 93.5mill, 97mill)


That would be insane. Can u imagine how much of a steal guys like Suzuki, Norris, Svechnikov, Hughes, Thomas will be by year 4 of their deals
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 8
#186
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Quoting: Juiceman
"I can't hear you with my two Stanley Cup rings plugging my ears"
-Luke Schenn


The question is how many were with Vancouver?
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 15
#187
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3 teams who are due for regression

1. St Louis Blues
- great offense, but their defense has the potential to be one of the worst D cores in the NHL, assuming that Leddy and Scandella are going to block Perunovich. There's a decent chance STL won't have one defenseman who's top pair caliber next season. Goaltending is a question mark as well, you don't know which Bennington you're gonna get

2. NY Rangers
- the rangers offense is driven by forwards who are approaching the wrong side of 30 - Panarin is still a great point producer, but he's regressed in each year since joining NY, Kreider will likely regress to a 30 G scorer and Zibanejad has been hit or miss at 5v5 over the past 4 seasons. The rangers do not have forwards who can make up for the regression of the rangers top players. You also have to take into consideration that while shesterkin will still be an elite goaltender, it's not a guarantee he'll put up the same numbers he did last season. It was one of the best goaltending performances in NHL history.

3. Predators
- Forsberg and Duchene are two of the top regression candidates for next season and with an aging core/defense they can easily fall off a cliff next season. A lot of their forwards had career years and high S%. Too much has to go right for them to make the playoffs.
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 19
#188
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Quoting: Db1899
3 teams who are due for regression

1. St Louis Blues
- great offense, but their defense has the potential to be one of the worst D cores in the NHL, assuming that Leddy and Scandella are going to block Perunovich. There's a decent chance STL won't have one defenseman who's top pair caliber next season. Goaltending is a question mark as well, you don't know which Bennington you're gonna get

2. NY Rangers
- the rangers offense is driven by forwards who are approaching the wrong side of 30 - Panarin is still a great point producer, but he's regressed in each year since joining NY, Kreider will likely regress to a 30 G scorer and Zibanejad has been hit or miss at 5v5 over the past 4 seasons. The rangers do not have forwards who can make up for the regression of the rangers top players. You also have to take into consideration that while shesterkin will still be an elite goaltender, it's not a guarantee he'll put up the same numbers he did last season. It was one of the best goaltending performances in NHL history.

3. Predators
- Forsberg and Duchene are two of the top regression candidates for next season and with an aging core/defense they can easily fall off a cliff next season. A lot of their forwards had career years and high S%. Too much has to go right for them to make the playoffs.


It’s wild how the Florida Panthers aren’t on that list 🤣🤣. Preds will be better. Young players can take a step forward and McDonagh addition was huge
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 20
#189
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Quoting: csick
That would be insane. Can u imagine how much of a steal guys like Suzuki, Norris, Svechnikov, Hughes, Thomas will be by year 4 of their deals


So who becomes the first $10 million man to win the cup? It is going to happen as eventually there will be enough cap space to provide quality and depth.

MacKinnon is in line to get that on his next contract but that won't start until next year and they are at least going to lose Compher to be able to afford him.

Matthews cashes in at the right time for himself but possibly wrong time for the Leafs since he'll be brought to current value.

McDavid and the Oilers could be it in 2 years if Campbell works in net then they use the cap space created to fix the top 4 defenders.
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 27
#190
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Quoting: csick
It’s wild how the Florida Panthers aren’t on that list 🤣🤣. Preds will be better. Young players can take a step forward and McDonagh addition was huge


Because the panthers aren't driven by older players who are going to regress. Lundell and Knight are better than any prospect/similar aged young player NSH has.

Mcdonagh is a 34 YO #4 defenseman with a ton of miles on him. He can fall off a cliff at any moment. Tomasino is the only young player who has a chance to to turn into a top 6 forward and that won't make up for the fact that Duchene and forsberg will fall off .
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 32
#191
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Quoting: Db1899
Because the panthers aren't driven by older players who are going to regress. Lundell and Knight are better than any prospect/similar aged young player NSH has.

Mcdonagh is a 34 YO #4 defenseman with a ton of miles on him. He can fall off a cliff at any moment. Tomasino is the only young player who has a chance to to turn into a top 6 forward and that won't make up for the fact that Duchene and forsberg will fall off .


I have Nashville at 2 in the central in my predictions and I’m not moving off that. And I have Florida competing for a wildcard spot or even missing
27 août 2022 à 14 h 40
#192
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Quoting: csick
I have Nashville at 2 in the central in my predictions and I’m not moving off that. And I have Florida competing for a wildcard spot or even missing


I think Nashville will miss the playoffs, they barely made it in last season with Josi, Duchene, and forsberg producing like superstars. 2 out of those 3 will significantly regress and they didn’t do much to improve the team.

When was the last time a team with a top 5 center and top 10 defenseman missed the playoffs?
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27 août 2022 à 14 h 41
#193
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Quoting: Db1899
I think Nashville will miss the playoffs, they barely made it in last season with Josi, Duchene, and forsberg producing like superstars. 2 out of those 3 will significantly regress and they didn’t do much to improve the team.

When was the last time a team with a top 5 center and top 10 defenseman missed the playoffs?


McDonagh and Nino are great additions. Plus Tolvanen and Tomasino can breakout
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27 août 2022 à 15 h 12
#194
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Quoting: csick
McDonagh and Nino are great additions. Plus Tolvanen and Tomasino can breakout


I agree with Nino, Mcdonagh won’t help them much on the ice. Tolvanen hasn’t shown he can be a top 6 producer at 5v5. I think he’ll be a great 3rd line defensive forward with a solid Pp impact. I agree with Tomasino, but he’s not scoring 40 goals next season which NSH needs. Both Forsbherg and Duchene shot 18.9% last season. The prior two seasons they shot below 11%. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dont hit 30 goals.
27 août 2022 à 16 h 16
#195
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Quoting: csick
McDonagh and Nino are great additions. Plus Tolvanen and Tomasino can breakout


Quoting: Db1899
I agree with Nino, Mcdonagh won’t help them much on the ice. Tolvanen hasn’t shown he can be a top 6 producer at 5v5. I think he’ll be a great 3rd line defensive forward with a solid Pp impact. I agree with Tomasino, but he’s not scoring 40 goals next season which NSH needs. Both Forsbherg and Duchene shot 18.9% last season. The prior two seasons they shot below 11%. I wouldn’t be surprised if they dont hit 30 goals.


I think the Preds are legit threats to jump St. Louis and push the Wild for #2 in the central; possibly even take the top spot as I don't think the Avs care too much about being #1 seed and have goalie issues.

The Preds have the best goalie in the division (Oettinger is on his heels but not there yet).

Their D is deep. McDonagh just has to be #4/#5 and he is a very smart consistent defender.

Adding Nino and progression from Tomasino (I think he overtakes Tolvanen) means their top 9 is very solid.

They don't have the firepower on the top line like the Avs or Wild but a healthy Saros can counter that in a playoff series.
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27 août 2022 à 16 h 23
#196
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
I think the Preds are legit threats to jump St. Louis and push the Wild for #2 in the central; possibly even take the top spot as I don't think the Avs care too much about being #1 seed and have goalie issues.

The Preds have the best goalie in the division (Oettinger is on his heels but not there yet).

Their D is deep. McDonagh just has to be #4/#5 and he is a very smart consistent defender.

Adding Nino and progression from Tomasino (I think he overtakes Tolvanen) means their top 9 is very solid.

They don't have the firepower on the top line like the Avs or Wild but a healthy Saros can counter that in a playoff series.


Of course Nashville will see progression from some of their younger players , but that won’t matter when Forsberg and Duchene go from 40+ goals to 25-30 G
27 août 2022 à 16 h 34
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Quoting: Db1899
Of course Nashville will see progression from some of their younger players , but that won’t matter when Forsberg and Duchene go from 40+ goals to 25-30 G


I don't think their decline will be that severe collectively.
27 août 2022 à 16 h 44
#198
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
I don't think their decline will be that severe collectively.


Even if they both shoot 13% (which is unlikely) that is a pretty big drop off. They both went from 2nd line forwards the previous 3 season to superstar level last season. Even if they’re both average 1st liners next season that probably won’t be enough for NSH to make the playoffs
27 août 2022 à 16 h 55
#199
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Quoting: Db1899
Even if they both shoot 13% (which is unlikely) that is a pretty big drop off. They both went from 2nd line forwards the previous 3 season to superstar level last season. Even if they’re both average 1st liners next season that probably won’t be enough for NSH to make the playoffs


Duchene is certainly inconsistent but Forsberg is that level no question.

With Chicago and Phoenix in their division I don't see what prevents them from making the playoffs. They are better than Winnipeg for sure. Dallas could make a push.

Edmonton, Calgary, and LA seem like top teams in the Pacific. Avs, Wild and either St. Louis or Nashville are the top 3 in Central. If you assume it's St. Louis then that leaves:

2 wildcard spots between Dallas, Nashville, Winnipeg, Seattle, Vancouver, and Vegas.

Of that group I would take Nashville and Vancouver for the 2 wildcards
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27 août 2022 à 17 h 9
#200
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Quoting: HockeyScotty
So who becomes the first $10 million man to win the cup? It is going to happen as eventually there will be enough cap space to provide quality and depth.

MacKinnon is in line to get that on his next contract but that won't start until next year and they are at least going to lose Compher to be able to afford him.

Matthews cashes in at the right time for himself but possibly wrong time for the Leafs since he'll be brought to current value.

McDavid and the Oilers could be it in 2 years if Campbell works in net then they use the cap space created to fix the top 4 defenders.


Was doing the math and through all of NHL history only 2 players have done 20% of their teams cap hit with the notable being Jagr and Brad Richards


McDavid signed a deal that was about 16.8% of the teams cap. If we apply that to lets say 86.5mill, Matthews next deal will be around 14.5 -15 mill

As rarely these days to star players get the full 20%. McDavid rn is the highest at 16.8% but who knows MacKinnon might surpass that and be the 3rd guy to take 20%

So in general its very rare a player is paid what they are actually worth as often they will play way above their deal in the majority of cases.
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