What would you be willing to trade for Carey Price at 50% retained? There was an Athletic article a while back which had feedback from pro scouts, this was there thoughts on Price:
“For sure there’s a market for him, but it would be quite the gamble,” said Scout No. 2. “But yes, there’s a market, that’s an automatic. There are teams who think they are a goalie away from being able to really do something … It might happen, but Price will need to come back and play like he did in the playoffs. That’s a big ‘if’ because if you look at his last three or four seasons, that hasn’t been the case.”
Carey Price is the single biggest reason why the Canadiens should hope the NHL goes to the Olympics. If Price is able to return in time, he could use Beijing to prove to the hockey world what he can offer another team. Because the interest in him is still there.
“When you look around the league, in terms of true No. 1 goalies, there are fewer than 15 of them,” said Scout No. 3. “Everyone uses a committee and hopes that one of them will have a great season … Bringing in a guy like that, with a reputation for never crumbling under the pressure, has a positive impact on a team. But again, it would have to work with the salary cap.”
The Canadiens need to find a team with Stanley Cup aspirations willing to make the investment and with the necessary salary-cap space required, which is a difficult combination to find among the top teams. That reality limits the market considerably.
“With what he’s shown in the playoffs, he should have two or three more years of solid hockey left in him, assuming he can recover from his injury and his off-ice issues are settled,” said Scout No. 3. “I think Colorado would be a good fit for him. Darcy Kuemper has the reputation who gets hurt a lot, and it’s the same thing this year.”
Scout No. 5 figures there might be two or three teams who could be interested.
“He has a lot of value for certain teams, but the problem is absorbing that contract under the cap for four years,” he said. “What is he worth? As far as I’m concerned, a first-round pick and a prospect, for sure. That’s a minimum.”
We believe the Canadiens would prefer to take back a bad contract or two as opposed to eating significant money for several years. The value of the draft picks coming back would depend on the bad contract or contracts that would come with those picks.
His full no-movement clause gives Price all the leverage, except for one thing: just because he accepts being moved, or even asks for it, doesn’t mean it will happen. There are so few teams who can afford to add Price that he needs to accept the possibility he will be stuck in Montreal for the duration of his deal.
Going off of the comments for the pro scouts, I've put together a trade - I think the main issue for debate is how much value does Kuemper still carry? Thoughts? Other offers / ideas?
Avs wouldnt trade one of those assets for Price at 50%, never mind all 3. This is just awful, Montreal fans move on from this bad idea of sending Price to Colorado for assets. Avs dont want him and you arent getting 1st round picks and Justin Barron level young Dmen for him either.
Thanks for posting this. Trolls will always say Price is valueless even at 50%. Thing is, real-life NHL scouts actually know what they're talking about unlike the guy who commented first.
Thanks for posting this. Trolls will always say Price is valueless even at 50%. Thing is, real-life NHL scouts actually know what they're talking about unlike the guy who commented first.
scouts are not NHL front office GMs or Analytic departments, they are opinions and do not make framework of trades and their values. All this Is the thoughts of random scouts who im going to go on a limb are just montreal scouts so of course they are going to pump up their opinion of Price
I'd still much rather listen to them instead of biased CapFriendly users that are still mad about the 1st round exit last season.
fair enough but im not saying that Price is worthless, im saying that this idea of Price to the Avs at 50% is not happening. If Avs and Sakic were comfortable paying a goalie 5.5m-6m on a long term contract they would have just signed Grubauer. Price at his age at 50% retained makes 0 sense in that conext, plus when you put in the value they already gave up for Kuemper who they have been trying to get for the past 2 seasons. Simple logic says Avs are not interested in Price and his contract even at 50%
Avs are contenders with Kuemper as their goalie. No team is gonna trade for Price, so no one knows what he is going to be this year, never mind the following years later.
Best thing for Habs if they want to trade him, first is getting him to play this season. Then even at that he's unlikely to be tradable till the summer.
Price though he has NMC, can be treated somewhat as a UFA. 50% retention and any team that wants him (and Price agrees to) can have him. There will be so few bidders, his trade value just might be a third rounder.
Avs are contenders with Kuemper as their goalie. No team is gonna trade for Price, so no one knows what he is going to be this year, never mind the following years later.
Best thing for Habs if they want to trade him, first is getting him to play this season. Then even at that he's unlikely to be tradable till the summer.
Price though he has NMC, can be treated somewhat as a UFA. 50% retention and any team that wants him (and Price agrees to) can have him. There will be so few bidders, his trade value just might be a third rounder.
exactly. Price hasn't even stopped a puck in full gear in 8 months? You dont know what are you getting with him....and since he has been declining steadily over the past 4 years, and at a rapid pace. This myth of Price being back bc of a couple good rounds in the playoffs doesnt erase what he has been for the past 4 years. Price has a good couple weeks run to get the Habs to the finals but then he fell apart in the biggest games.
Kuemper hasn't been a slam dunk out of the gate with the avs, but they have been dealing with line up issues and injuries all season too, every game he got better and more comfortable with the Avs and their system, hes been steady for them the majority of the games he has played. He is not a weak link that montreal fans are trying to make him seem like
Avs are contenders with Kuemper as their goalie. No team is gonna trade for Price, so no one knows what he is going to be this year, never mind the following years later.
Best thing for Habs if they want to trade him, first is getting him to play this season. Then even at that he's unlikely to be tradable till the summer.
Price though he has NMC, can be treated somewhat as a UFA. 50% retention and any team that wants him (and Price agrees to) can have him. There will be so few bidders, his trade value just might be a third rounder.
Why would the habs trade Price for a 3rd rounder? That's really just an absurd comment. The guy basically beat the leafs single handedly last season.
That's the part I just don't get about Avs fans backlash against this move. To me, Carey Price almost guarantees that team a Stanley Cup and they're scared about giving up a projected 2nd pairing D prospect and a pick (in hindsight Kuemper could likely be flipped for another asset, so the 1st included here is an overpayment... but regardless, @coga16 "wouldn't trade even one of those assets for Price").
What I don't get is people are acting like this is a biased opinion from a habs fan. This is the opinion of 5 anonymous pro scouts across the league, interviewed by respected journalists not just some random blog.
It's plain as day said there's a definite market for Price and the expected return would be a 1st and a prospect if the habs retained salary. This is said by people working in the NHL... not some commenter on CapFriendly.
So after 27 games 1) you think the Avs pull the plug on Kuemper and 2) that then your talking about the Avs trading 2 1st, Barron and Timmins. That is a better package than BUF got for an elite 1C a decade younger.
Price was literally available for FREE, and Seattle couldn’t make it work. It’s not like Price all the sudden got better from last year in fact he hasn’t played.
Why would the habs trade Price for a 3rd rounder? That's really just an absurd comment. The guy basically beat the leafs single handedly last season.
That's the part I just don't get about Avs fans backlash against this move. To me, Carey Price almost guarantees that team a Stanley Cup and they're scared about giving up a projected 2nd pairing D prospect and a pick (in hindsight Kuemper could likely be flipped for another asset, so the 1st included here is an overpayment... but regardless, coga16 wouldn't trade even one of those assets for Price).
What I don't get is people are acting like this is a biased opinion from a habs fan. This is the opinion of 5 anonymous pro scouts across the league, interviewed by respected journalists not just some random blog.
It's plain as day said there's a definite market for Price and the expected return would be a 1st and a prospect if the habs retained salary. This is said by people working in the NHL... not some commenter on CapFriendly.
And there is the key factor you are missing...Random Scouts. They are scouts that have 0 weight in terms of a team or a front office trading for or the value of said player, or they have no weight in a front offices plan in terms of cap space management. Scouts have 0 say in trade talk framework. Its all fine and dandy to say scouts believe teams want Price and he could fetch that value, but they dont work in the front office in trade talks. These are probably just montreal scouts that Lebrun interviewed bc this is his story and he was pushing this narrative of Price trade interest.
So after 27 games 1) you think the Avs pull the plug on Kuemper and 2) that then your talking about the Avs trading 2 1st, Barron and Timmins. That is a better package than BUF got for an elite 1C a decade younger.
Price was literally available for FREE, and Seattle couldn’t make it work. It’s not like Price all the sudden got better from last year in fact he hasn’t played.
1. In hindsight Avs obviously overpaid for Kuemper, but yes Kumeper would still have value so this is an overpayment. Obviously a Price trade to COL would have to have Kuemper moved to make the $$$ work, but if MTL could flip Kuemper in a 3 way deal than the cost from COL would go down significantly.
2. Price was available for free at $10.5M. Seattle made a lot of questionable moves, honestly I think they botched their expansion draft. MTL wasn't interested in moving Price when Bergevin was hear, so it wasn't a matter of not being able to make it work with Seattle either.
Why would the habs trade Price for a 3rd rounder? That's really just an absurd comment. The guy basically beat the leafs single handedly last season.
That's the part I just don't get about Avs fans backlash against this move. To me, Carey Price almost guarantees that team a Stanley Cup and they're scared about giving up a projected 2nd pairing D prospect and a pick (in hindsight Kuemper could likely be flipped for another asset, so the 1st included here is an overpayment... but regardless, coga16 wouldn't trade even one of those assets for Price).
What I don't get is people are acting like this is a biased opinion from a habs fan. This is the opinion of 5 anonymous pro scouts across the league, interviewed by respected journalists not just some random blog.
It's plain as day said there's a definite market for Price and the expected return would be a 1st and a prospect if the habs retained salary. This is said by people working in the NHL... not some commenter on CapFriendly.
No, the Cary Price for a third not absurd. What the Habs would gain would be 5.25m in cap space. Don't know why anyone thinks the current version of Carey Price (the one who hasn't played in six months) has trade value. Avs or any contending aren't risking their season on Price, certainly not this year. Sorry, it's "not as plain as day" that there is definite market for Price this season as of today.
He has to play this season and play well to have any chance of being traded.
And there is the key factor you are missing...Random Scouts. They are scouts that have 0 weight in terms of a team or a front office trading for or the value of said player, or they have no weight in a front offices plan in terms of cap space management. Scouts have 0 say in trade talk framework. Its all fine and dandy to say scouts believe teams want Price and he could fetch that value, but they dont work in the front office in trade talks. These are probably just montreal scouts that Lebrun interviewed bc this is his story and he was pushing this narrative of Price trade interest.
Random scouts? No, these are anonymous pro scouts.
Pro scouts have zero weight in terms of front office plans? Are you serious lol... the job of pro scouts it's to evaluate players and make recommendations to their GM. How many GM's in the league do you think started out as pro scouts? You think these scouts just live with their heads in the sand and don't think about the management side of things? Oh and what's worse is you're insinuating that you, an armchair GM'r like the rest of us, knows more than a pro scout because apparently pro scouts don't have a clue when it comes to managing a team. Just stop and think about that for a second, self reflect on it.
Lastly, you assuming these are just montreal scouts interviewd by LeBrun (that isn't the case) shows your clear bias, you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion.
No, the Cary Price for a third not absurd. What the Habs would gain would be 5.25m in cap space. Don't know why anyone thinks the current version of Carey Price (the one who hasn't played in six months) has trade value. Avs or any contending aren't risking their season on Price, certainly not this year. Sorry, it's "not as plain as day" that there is definite market for Price this season as of today.
He has to play this season and play well to have any chance of being traded.
The current version of Carey Price? The guy who just took MTL to the cup final? So ironic discussing the value of this with a leaf fan when the leafs haven't been out of the 1st round since 2004. No wonder you can't appreciate Price's value.
This article came out Dec. 17th. https://theathletic.com/3021164/2021/12/17/scouts-confidential-what-value-might-canadiens-players-with-term-left-have-on-the-trade-market?source=user-shared-article
On Dec. 17th, Pro scouts valued Price at a 1st + Prospect with Retained salary with a quote saying "there is definitely a market". That is plain as day, or has something changed in the last two weeks?
Random scouts? No, these are anonymous pro scouts.
Pro scouts have zero weight in terms of front office plans? Are you serious lol... the job of pro scouts it's to evaluate players and make recommendations to their GM. How many GM's in the league do you think started out as pro scouts? You think these scouts just live with their heads in the sand and don't think about the management side of things? Oh and what's worse is you're insinuating that you, an armchair GM'r like the rest of us, knows more than a pro scout because apparently pro scouts don't have a clue when it comes to managing a team. Just stop and think about that for a second, self reflect on it.
Lastly, you assuming these are just montreal scouts interviewd by LeBrun (that isn't the case) shows your clear bias, you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion.
they are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts, their is no additional value of their opinions from one another, they are just random scouts.
are scouts telling the GM what they should give up in a trade? Give your head a shake man. Scouts say they like players, the GM takes that into consideration, they are the ones that make sure the cap and value makes sense, scouts are not in trade talks. Do you understand how minimal importance a scout has a terms of trade framework. They give analysis on the player, their skating, their IQ, their shot, their positioning etc, they arent saying Joe you should give up a 1sst and prospect for this player, I think hes worth that much.
"you will do anything to ignore these evaluations because they don't align with your opinion" you posting that is pretty ironic, do you realize you are doing the same, ignore 4 years of Prices decline and all the analytic data that teams have tracked on him, his decline is very much documented, and its not bc of the Defense in front of him, even with improved defensive play his poor numbers remained or got worse.
I still think Edmonton is the team that should be trading for Price. With the caveat that we see he's healthy and ready to go first.
At 50% retained, something like Bourgault and a 1st isn't a lot to ask. The pick could even be conditional on Edmonton's playoff success.
They're currently running a 39 year old and a 33 year old. It's not like they would be getting older in the crease. Price and Smith would only come in ~$1M more than they are paying for goaltending now. That could be a hell of a duo with their workload being reduced and Skinner gaining experience behind them, which would be good for his development. Price also has the ability to backstop a team through the playoffs and win games, which is what Edmonton's focus should be.
Colorado makes less sense because they picked their guy and traded for him already. They should give him at least this season and a shot in the playoffs before deciding if they made a bad deal and should change goaltenders.
The Kuemper trade was made out of desperation when it looked like Grubie might re-sign and then suddenly didn't. Kuemper still has a chance to make good, but we are assuming he falters for this trade to go down. What you are suggesting here is the exact same trade and I can't imagine Sakic risking getting burned twice in a row.
they are random scouts, they arent head or pro scouting, they are just 5 random scouts, their is no additional value of their opinions from one another, they are just random scouts.
are scouts telling the GM what they should give up in a trade? Give your head a shake man. Scouts say they like players, the GM takes that into consideration, they are the ones that make sure the cap and value makes sense, scouts are not in trade talks. Do you understand how minimal importance a scout has a terms of trade framework. They give analysis on the player, their skating, their IQ, their shot, their positioning etc, they arent saying Joe you should give up a 1sst and prospect for this player, I think hes worth that much.
I don't think you understand what a pro scout is. A pro scout is someone who evaluates players in the NHL. These aren't random scouts, these are pro scouts... by definition, I have no idea why you are even trying to dispute this fact.
"Five pro scouts who have watched the Canadiens extensively this season agreed to anonymously share their perception of some of those players with The Athletic and what their value on the market might represent."
These are just a few GM's who started as scouts:
- Bergevin
- Dorion
- Hextall
- Dubas
- Benning
- McClellan
That's at least 6 of the 16 eastern conference GM's this season. So in this sample at least 37.5% of GM's started as scouts. Your claim that scouts are totally dissociated from trade evaluations is false - how could it not be when almost half of the GM's in the league were once scouts? Yes they are not the GM's making the final call, but their opinions should still be respected. I for one would put more stock into their evaluations than anyone else's on this site.
The current version of Carey Price? The guy who just took MTL to the cup final? So ironic discussing the value of this with a leaf fan when the leafs haven't been out of the 1st round since 2004. No wonder you can't appreciate Price's value.
This article came out Dec. 17th. https://theathletic.com/3021164/2021/12/17/scouts-confidential-what-value-might-canadiens-players-with-term-left-have-on-the-trade-market?source=user-shared-article
On Dec. 17th, Pro scouts valued Price at a 1st + Prospect with Retained salary with a quote saying "there is definitely a market". That is plain as day, or has something changed in the last two weeks?
I really do love it when a publication that relies on subscriptions says something with no named sources past "pro scouts" that is obviously clickbait and people eat it hook line and sinker.
And the "current version of price" cherry picked from one playoffs sandwiched between years of downright bad play and then not playing for 6 months due to health issues is held up like hes 23 years old again.
1. In hindsight Avs obviously overpaid for Kuemper, but yes Kumeper would still have value so this is an overpayment. Obviously a Price trade to COL would have to have Kuemper moved to make the $$$ work, but if MTL could flip Kuemper in a 3 way deal than the cost from COL would go down significantly.
2. Price was available for free at $10.5M. Seattle made a lot of questionable moves, honestly I think they botched their expansion draft. MTL wasn't interested in moving Price when Bergevin was hear, so it wasn't a matter of not being able to make it work with Seattle either.
They totally over paid because the market dried up, don’t think for a minute Sakic will let that happen again. Again agree that Seattle botched the XD, but if a team like COL had said hey take Price we will give you Barron and 1st for you to retain they would have jumped at. What MTL fans refuse to listen to, is he is 34, before the playoffs last year was exceedingly ordinary, he was in the PAP this year and that’s no joke, and until he plays and plays well nobody giving any sort of tangible asset for him
I still think Edmonton is the team that should be trading for Price. With the caveat that we see he's healthy and ready to go first.
At 50% retained, something like Bourgault and a 1st isn't a lot to ask. The pick could even be conditional on Edmonton's playoff success.
They're currently running a 39 year old and a 33 year old. It's not like they would be getting older in the crease. Price and Smith would only come in ~$1M more than they are paying for goaltending now. That could be a hell of a duo with their workload being reduced and Skinner gaining experience behind them, which would be good for his development. Price also has the ability to backstop a team through the playoffs and win games, which is what Edmonton's focus should be.
Colorado makes less sense because they picked their guy and traded for him already. They should give him at least this season and a shot in the playoffs before deciding if they made a bad deal and should change goaltenders.
Good point, when thinking about teams to flip Kuemper too EDM was the first one that came to mind.
I think I focused on COL from comments in the article (maybe it's the Roy effect too), plus I had my mind set Chiaror was going to EDM, but perhaps they are the best fit for Price.
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