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(MTL/ARI) - 2022 conditional 1st round pick and 2024 2nd round pick for Dvorak

Who won the trade?
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4 sep à 23 h 54
#26
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
If KK signs long term for lower than his $6 million OS, than the NHLPA should revoke his membership.

AND Bettman should look into the Canes front office for CBA player contract tampering.


Nonsense. Canes and Kotkaniemi are fully in the rules for doing this. If it happens like this, it'll not be all that different from Tampa spamming LTIR (legally) to get an edge on other teams. Smart teams use rules to their advantage. Even as a Canes fan that saw their team lose to Tampa, I had no problem with what their FO did.
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4 sep à 23 h 55
#27
MERCER SZN
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Arizona is having a very underrated offseason
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4 sep à 23 h 57
#28
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Quoting: aadoyle
I wonder if KK breaks out what happens with Bergevin. Cause you got to think if KK does very well ownership will not be happy about Berg not matching the OS.


I don't know. The big issue here is that the offer sheet was entirely Bergevin's damn fault. No way would he have been this vulnerable if he didn't attempt that massive fail of an offer sheet and didn't treat the Canes in the process as some backward, country bumpkin franchise.
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5 sep à 0 h 02
#29
IdEnTiTy LiNe
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Dvorak is a 2C.

The first is top 10 protected and with a mid round 1st you should be ecstatic with a 2C. Mid round 1st picks are the most overvalued assets in the NHL. Habs did a good job of making the best of a bad situation
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5 sep à 0 h 03
#30
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Overpay for Dvorak but Montreal didn't have much of a choice if they wanted to stay relevant in the Atlantic division.
sensonfire a aimé ceci.
5 sep à 0 h 11
#31
Habs4Ever
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
I don't know. The big issue here is that the offer sheet was entirely Bergevin's damn fault. No way would he have been this vulnerable if he didn't attempt that massive fail of an offer sheet and didn't treat the Canes in the process as some backward, country bumpkin franchise.


They lost Hamilton because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They lost Ned because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They almost lost Brind, but he stayed because he took a massive discount
They've non renewed the contracts of many personel staff + other employees because of $$ issues

If you don't think that offersheet affected Carolina, you are dead wrong.
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5 sep à 0 h 13
#32
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Modifié 5 sep à 0 h 20
Quoting: Hockyluv21
Nonsense. Canes and Kotkaniemi are fully in the rules for doing this. If it happens like this, it'll not be all that different from Tampa spamming LTIR (legally) to get an edge on other teams. Smart teams use rules to their advantage. Even as a Canes fan that saw their team lose to Tampa, I had no problem with what their FO did.


It would be a first in NHL history.

For a young player, with control of his contract, to sign a 1 year deal with another team, just to sign long term at half the previous rate.

This isn't an UFA age player.

This would be shady and Bettman would have to investigate.

Tbay placing healthy players on LTIR wasn't a new thing either. Remember the Leafs with Robidas and Lupul.
5 sep à 0 h 13
#33
AKA Pezzetta23
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Sure, good trade I guess.

In a vacuum this is great for the habs. Dvorak is a great player, and is an upgrade on Danault offensively. The cost isn’t bad at all.

Now the issue is the fact that they lost Kotkaniemi to make this move, which makes it brutal for Montréal.
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5 sep à 0 h 16
#34
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Quoting: Saskleaf
This reminds me of the Kuemper trade. It's an overpayment for a guy they desperately needed.

Houston is going to be very, very good.


Neither this nor the Kuemper trade are overpayments.

It seems like people on this website really underrate Yotes players.
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5 sep à 0 h 16
#35
You know nothing JS
Rejoint: jan 2017
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Short term win for the Habs. The 2021-2022 line up is better with Dvorak than KK.

Will have to wait the end of the season to see the 1st round picks final ranks. If both are 20+ it would be another W for MTL over ARZ.

Will have to wait 4 years to see if KK realise his potential and become a better player than Dvorak...
5 sep à 0 h 19
#36
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
They lost Hamilton because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They lost Ned because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They almost lost Brind, but he stayed because he took a massive discount
They've non renewed the contracts of many personel staff + other employees because of $$ issues

If you don't think that offersheet affected Carolina, you are dead wrong.


I think the Canes truly thought the Habs would match the offer and that this was a revenge plot for the Habs making the Canes owner spend $22.5 million on the 1st 2 years of Aho's contract.

It backfired.
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5 sep à 0 h 19
#37
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Modifié 5 sep à 0 h 25
Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
They lost Hamilton because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They lost Ned because they wouldn't pay him what he was worth
They almost lost Brind, but he stayed because he took a massive discount
They've non renewed the contracts of many personel staff + other employees because of $$ issues

If you don't think that offersheet affected Carolina, you are dead wrong.


And yet, what happened after the Aho offer sheet? Three straight seasons where the Canes have spent all the way up to the salary cap. Where's the "cheapness" here? Canes actually spent more money than their original goalie group in order to acquire what, in their minds, were better goaltenders than Reimer/Mrazek/Nedeljkovic. With the saved cap funds from swapping Hamilton/McGinn/Foegele/Bean with Bear/DeAngelo/Cole/Stepan, they first gave Svech a massive 8-year extension, and then they offer-sheeted and then acquired a 21 year old center in Kotkaniemi that they really wanted and thought would be a good fit. None of this can be considered cheap.
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5 sep à 0 h 29
#38
Rejoint: nov 2018
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Sure, good trade I guess.

In a vacuum this is great for the habs. Dvorak is a great player, and is an upgrade on Danault offensively. The cost isn’t bad at all.

Now the issue is the fact that they lost Kotkaniemi to make this move, which makes it brutal for Montréal.


Even you should be able to see that KK wasn't ever going to reach his potential with the Habs....If KK becomes a star player worthy of $6 it will be because the Canes will give him more ice time, better line mates and receives bettering coaching than what he was ever going to get by staying a Hab player.

Now if the Canes do KK wrong, like the Habs were, than KK goes off into the Draft bust history books.

The Habs have better depth on wing than the Canes so KK (never should be considered a center) would always be a 3rd liner. The Canes with both Trocheck and Nieder hitting UFA next summer might lose both (which truly was the key) and KK gets his 2nd line spot full time.
5 sep à 0 h 31
#39
Rejoint: mar 2019
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
I think the Canes truly thought the Habs would match the offer and that this was a revenge plot for the Habs making the Canes owner spend $22.5 million on the 1st 2 years of Aho's contract.

It backfired.


Not even Elliotte Friedman buys that. He reported that the Canes were looking for more top-6 help, especially at the center position. They sniffed around Dvorak and Tarasenko, but they thought the asset price was too high. They actually inquired about Kotkaniemi as a trade target, but Bergevin likely was asking for Seth Jarvis + in return. They instead decided to use this offer sheet to acquire him, and it actually worked.
5 sep à 0 h 31
#40
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Sure, good trade I guess.

In a vacuum this is great for the habs. Dvorak is a great player, and is an upgrade on Danault offensively. The cost isn’t bad at all.

Now the issue is the fact that they lost Kotkaniemi to make this move, which makes it brutal for Montréal.


Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Neither this nor the Kuemper trade are overpayments.

It seems like people on this website really underrate Yotes players.


Alex Kerfoot has better career statistics than Dvorak (both are in their mid 20's)

Alex Kerfoot has far better career even-strength statistics than Dvorak.

Alex Kerfoot had more even strength points than Dvorak last season.

Alex Kerfoot costs $1,000,000 less than Dvorak and gets no PP time.

Alex Kerfoot is as good or better than Dvorak in the defensive end.

Most people call Alex Kerfoot a bad #3C and a salary cap-dump.

Dvorak has never hit 40 points or 20 goals in five NHL seasons.
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5 sep à 0 h 33
#41
Rejoint: mar 2019
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Most people call Alex Kerfoot a bad #3C and a salary cap-dump.


Kyle Dubas knows better than these numbskulls, then. He actually acquired McCann for cheap partly because he didn't want to lose Kerfoot to Seattle without a potential replacement.
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5 sep à 0 h 45
#42
Rejoint: jui 2016
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
You might wanna look up the % of odds that 1st Rd pick players turn into useful star players.

It's lower than you think.

Roll the dice or throw darts blindly.


More darts = better odds.

Also that many picks close together, you've got a pretty solid chance at a very passable new core that you can shape however you want.
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5 sep à 1 h 43
#43
Rejoint: nov 2018
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Considering Dubas spent a 1st and two 4th Rd picks for a rental like Foligno, I'd say both the Canes and Habs got a good deal.
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5 sep à 1 h 47
#44
ButIActLikeIDid
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Quoting: Saskleaf
This reminds me of the Kuemper trade. It's an overpayment for a guy they desperately needed.

Houston is going to be very, very good.


Yet Kuemper has been in all projected lineups for Canadas Olympic roster.
sensonfire a aimé ceci.
5 sep à 1 h 50
#45
Rejoint: nov 2018
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Modifié 5 sep à 2 h 06
Quoting: Hockyluv21
Not even Elliotte Friedman buys that. He reported that the Canes were looking for more top-6 help, especially at the center position. They sniffed around Dvorak and Tarasenko, but they thought the asset price was too high. They actually inquired about Kotkaniemi as a trade target, but Bergevin likely was asking for Seth Jarvis + in return. They instead decided to use this offer sheet to acquire him, and it actually worked.


The Cane's know next summer UFA will see Trocheck, Nieder and Cole walk away and they'll use that cap space to sign KK and Necas.

While next summer the Habs do not have any extra cash coming off the books (Chiarot only)and have their own Necas quality player to sign a big contract too (Suzuki).

So yes, I'm over reaching the Canes OS for fun, but my opinion still says it's a mistake and will backfire on the Canes (doubt a handshake agreement for a cheaper contract was made, KK's agent would be a fool to allow KK to accept anything less than a QO and use his arbitration rights next summer) and the League in general (imagine other player agents using KK's 35-40 point talents as a sample to gain more young players asking for $6 million offers).
5 sep à 1 h 54
#46
ButIActLikeIDid
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If you look at the big picture CAR is a winner here. They matched Aho offer sheet and robbed KK from that team so I doubt anyone making that move on them anymore. They played well and thanks to their good scouting and developing they afford making a miss with KK.
5 sep à 2 h 02
#47
Rejoint: nov 2018
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Modifié 5 sep à 2 h 15
Quoting: INeverPlayedHockey
If you look at the big picture CAR is a winner here. They matched Aho offer sheet and robbed KK from that team so I doubt anyone making that move on them anymore. They played well and thanks to their good scouting and developing they afford making a miss with KK.


Need to find out the rumors of the Habs and Canes trade offers concerning KK. Maybe the Habs win by not accepting the Canes lowball trade offer.

Looking into the Canes young players (minus their untouchable Aho, Svech and Necas) they have nobody NHL ready other than Dman (which I'm sure Bergy wasn't looking at).

Canes prospect pool is thin also (reunite the Suzuki bro's or recent Draft pick Jarvis) would be the best option and that is below value compared to a mid 1st Rd pick which Bergy chooses himself.
5 sep à 3 h 17
#48
Rejoint: déc 2017
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None of the 3 teams involved won today, imo. But, maybe Habs fans can take solace in the possibility that they'll be better in the short term. C.V. is a fine all around player despite not having KK's upside. And the extra cap space could make a big difference in what should be a brutally tough Eastern Conference.
5 sep à 3 h 22
#49
We are all equal
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Darn Arizona is a hot mess
5 sep à 3 h 25
#50
Rejoint: déc 2017
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Quoting: TheFlamingC
Dvorak is a 2C.

The first is top 10 protected and with a mid round 1st you should be ecstatic with a 2C. Mid round 1st picks are the most overvalued assets in the NHL. Habs did a good job of making the best of a bad situation


Exactly. Like I said, MB did a great job getting Dvorak and he's got an extra $1.5M+ in cap space to play with now. His mistake, imo, was not failing to match the ridiculous KK OS. His mistake was trying to steal Aho in the first place.
 
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