Forums/Armchair-GM

The Matheson Puzzle plus what happens next

Créé par: Pens3lieve
Date de création initiale: sep 25, 2020
Publié: 26 sep à 18 h 25
Équipe: 2020-21 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Explications
Disclamer-i'm not an NHL GM and neither are you.
opinions are like armpits. everyone has a couple, and they both stink. -M. Horner

Ok first my thoughts on the "Matheson/Sceviour for Hornqvist deal".
It's downright confusing on so many levels. Although I doubted he'd waive his NTC, I have wanted to move on and get younger and faster. I did not think for a second we'd have to take on what is right now a WORSE contract--an absolute albatross and gong show of a contract. Exhibit A of how Florida (not Tampa) had been just awfully mismanaged as an organization. No I'm not already a Mike Matheson basher, I will watch him play before I form an opinion. There are some that say Matheson was used poorly and is better than the results and I sincerely hope that's true. it's hard for a defence man to look good on a team that almost no one looks good on (except Barkov and Huberdeau and Hornqvist just had to put him in there...miss you horny72!). I don't know whether of not Sceviour was included in the original trade (was there 2 IDK?) so he strikes me as a throw in. (see Rodrigues, Evan--both times) I would not be surprised to see Sceviour thrown in to a bigger deal to move his small but existent cap hit.
Situation 1-Matheson plays #3RD
STOP-this is a nightmare. a JJ-Matheson pairing might have the potential to be worse than JJ-Schultz--which was awful! This is highly unlikely in my book and worst case scenario for sure.

Situation 2-matheson plays #2LHD
This one might be even dumber. if they think he is a " Top-4 D who can play both sides and clear bodies...blah blah blah..that sounds familiar. See JJ!!! on second thought don't, you'll have nightmares. GMJR said a firm "NO" to trading Dumo or Petey which he should. Either he is pulling a Kessel and saying one thing and doing another or he is being realistic and realizing he has a chance to have a GOOD D core for the first time in a bit...

Situation 3-[THE RIGHT DECISION] Matheson plays #3LHD
the only positive that SHOULD come from this trade immediately is JJ no longer has a spot in the top-6. sully loves the righty lefty thing unless it's chad Ruhwedel playing his off side...if it's Ruhwedel or JJ on the right side I think its Ruhwedel. I think GMJR will get a #6/7 RHD type and trade JJ. there's no room for him. we have 6 LHD right now...with Vellucci on the bench he will be beating the drum for PO Joseph. with Riikola's 2 year contract they will probably try I think to sneak him through waivers to the AHL. Dumoulin-Letang, Pettersson-Marino, Matheson-____?____, and Riikola-Ruhwedel + Joseph-Maniscalso is a pretty good top-10 of D. maniscalso, Ruhwedel and maybe a minor FA I can see fighting for the #3RHD spot.

What do the Pens do next?

1-First the Murray deal and fallout from that. I think he'll probably go to one of: COL, CGY, BUF, OTT, TOR, or MIN. IDK which is the most likely. Because they have some decent pieces, cap space and a young core, I like COL as a trading partner. yes, I know COL has two goalies and didn't lose because of them. I get it. now speaking in theoretical, IDK if COL would want PIT to take back a goalie or not...if so I'd prefer francouz but COL would probably say Grubauer. GMJR is supposedly asking a 1st plus. COL has a plethora of young D men in Byram, Makar, Timmins, etc. Timmins was a 2nd round pick in 2017. Jost is listed at C but doesn't play there much I don't think and can't win a face-off to save his life meaning he'll fit in with McCann and Bleuger...although he's worse than they are. I'd prefer if McCann was the #3LW and we got a different #3C but I think PIT views McCann as their #3C.

2-another disclaimer: IDK what Anderson's value is! don't kill me CBJ fans! he has had some major injury probs and supposedly wants out so the price should drop a little. I put a college FA D man with some actual upside in Lee + a 3rd round pick that fell to us in Legare. he has a wicked shot and put up 40 G in the QMJHL. I like him but he's slow and won't be in the NHL for 2-3 years--too late to help us WIN NOW. I'd give more for Anderson I think because I think he can rebound, but I put this as a starting point.

3-DUMP JJ RIGHT NOW!!!!!
by the Bjugstad trade I realized because of teams internal budgets + flat cap teams won't be as willing to take on salary. to take JJ, OTT receives (in this strictly hypothetical deal) : Bjorkvist (2nd), Lindgren (4th), and a 3rd. is a 2nd/3rd/4th enough? I have no idea. I'd give more like another mid round pick and a B prospect...

4-How does the team stack up now? + random thoughts
-GMJR said they wanted to get younger and faster. mission sort of accomplished...Poulin and Joseph will be given a shot in training camp but I think both will start the season at lower levels.
-Simon/ZAR are both injured and I wonder if both are even back next year. I'd keep both of them $$ permitting.
-PP1 setup: I wonder if we've seen the end of the PIT net front presence. I know I don't want guentzel getting beat up and crosschecked in the neck and hit with Geno slappers while trying to deflect pieces of rubber coming at you that could easily deflect up into your face. remember Crosby, marino, werenski, etc... Maybe PIT moves the net front guy into the slot and relies on quick passing, getting the goalie moving side to side, and maybe an occasional high tip. as long as they SHOOT THE PUCK and DON'T MAKE US LOSE MOMENTUM I don't care if they are only 20%. and please no regression into dumb passes and SH goals against (looking at you Geno.) [Sid down low as a puck distributor making the goalie look back constantly (Hey Sid, how 'bout a 'Svech'? JK), Geno at the right half wall blasting slappers top corner, Letang up top with some slap passes down low for Sid deflections, Rusty on the left half wall sniping (NOT A LH SHOT! PLEASE RIERDEN DON'T BE LIKE RECCHI!!!), and finally Guentzel doing what he does best in the slot (get open, let Sid find you, shoot puck, score goal, rinse and repeat, 40 goals, boom!) -and an occasional high tip for good measure.
-the PP2 has some decent weapons on it with the potential to keep a net front guy if Anderson can do it...going around the horn: Zucker down to do a Sid-lite job, McCann to shoot the puck as hard as he can (breakout time), Matheson to give him opportunity to succeed, and kapanen because he's a RH shot and hopefully can hit the net every once in a while.
-PK units...alot of PK options for sure. ZAR (when healthy), Tanev (hit TURBO BOOST!), bleuger (How about a Selke vote for a DEFENSIVE AWARD? IT"S not supposed to be a good defence combined with decent offences award!) Sceviour (takes the face-offs on the PK which is good. PKing one of his strengths), Kapanen (Good PKer with loads of speed. anyone else want to see a goaline to blue line Kapanen VS Tanev VS Rust race??? (hello key bank challenge!) LET'S GOOO!
-I'd like a veteran backup goalie in case of injury, even if he's not great. I'm just not 100% comfortable with Jarry/DeSmith and no one as a decent #3--unless Larmi can do better than the ECHL...
-I hope the college kids and prospects are given every chance to make the team. I'd love to see them push for a spot.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Åberg, Pontus2750 000 $
Angello, Anthony2750 000 $
Lafferty, Sam2750 000 $
Nyberg, John2750 000 $
Miletic, Sam2750 000 $
Jarry, Tristan33 000 000 $
Simon, Dominik31 000 000 $
Jost, Tyson31 750 000 $
Anderson, Josh33 200 000 $
Transactions
PIT
  1. Timmins, Conor
  2. Jost, Tyson [Droits de RFA]
COL
  1. Murray, Matt [Droits de RFA]
  2. Angello, Anthony
PIT
  1. Anderson, Josh [Droits de RFA]
CBJ
  1. Lee, Cameron
  2. Légaré, Nathan
Détails additionnels:
Lee (college FA)
Legare (3rd)
PIT
  1. 2022 7e round pick (OTT)
OTT
  1. Johnson, Jack
  2. Björkqvist, Kasper
  3. Lindgren, Jesper
  4. 2022 3e round pick (PIT)
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Nick Bjugstad: 2 050 000 $ (50%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2020
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
2021
PIT
PIT
PIT
ANA
2022
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
PIT
OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $80 340 175 $0 $850 000 $1 159 825 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
PIT
Guentzel, Jake
6 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 4
PIT
Crosby, Sidney
8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
PIT
Rust, Bryan
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
PIT
Zucker, Jason
5 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 3
PIT
Malkin, Evgeni
9 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Kapanen, Kasperi
3 200 000 $
AD
RFA - 2
Jost, Tyson
1 750 000 $
C, AG, AD
RFA - 1
PIT
McCann, Jared
2 940 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
Anderson, Josh
3 200 000 $
AD
UFA - 7
PIT
Tanev, Brandon
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 5
PIT
Blueger, Teddy
750 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
PIT
Sceviour, Colton
1 200 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
PIT
Dumoulin, Brian
4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
PIT
Letang, Kris
7 250 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
3 000 000 $
G
UFA - 3
PIT
Pettersson, Marcus
4 025 175 $
DG
UFA - 5
PIT
Marino, John
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
PIT
DeSmith, Casey
1 250 000 $
G
UFA - 2
PIT
Matheson, Michael
4 875 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
COL
Timmins, Conor
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
PIT
Ruhwedel, Chad
700 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
PIT
Simon, Dominik
1 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA
PIT
Lafferty, Sam
750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
PIT
Aston-Reese, Zach
1 000 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
PIT
Åberg, Pontus
750 000 $
AD, AG
RFA
PIT
Riikola, Juuso
1 150 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
PIT
Joseph, Pierre-Olivier
863 333 $
DG
RFA - 2
PIT
Poulin, Samuel
894 167 $
AG, AD
RFA - 3
PIT
O'Connor, Drew
925 000 $
AG
RFA - 2
PIT
Maniscalco, Joshua
853 333 $
DD
RFA - 3
PIT
Reilly, Will
806 250 $
DD
RFA - 2

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Rust, B.
Guentzel, J.
Crosby, S.
Letang, K.
Malkin, E.
Avantage numérique 2
Kapanen, K.
Anderson, J.
Zucker, J.
Matheson, M.
McCann, J.
Infériorité numérique 1
Tanev, B.
Blueger, T.
Dumoulin, B.
Marino, J.
Infériorité numérique 2
Sceviour, C.
Anderson, J.
Pettersson, M.
Timmins, C.

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What PIT LD gets traded?
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Options de sondage

 

26 sep à 18 h 27
#1
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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BradTolliverGoalie a aimé ceci.
26 sep à 18 h 27
#2
KFTW
Rejoint: jui 2018
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I’ll trade you for Pettersson
26 sep à 18 h 33
#3
Hockey 1st Sens 2nd
Rejoint: aoû 2016
Messages: 1,353
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Ottawa joyfully declines. Just keep JJ, you honestly can't afford to give up prospects or picks it would take to get rid of him.
26 sep à 18 h 35
#4
Rejoint: nov 2018
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If Kapanen plays with Malkin, he'll score more goals than Willy Nylander does, making the Leafs look foolish.
26 sep à 18 h 37
#5
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
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Quoting: TCMonkey
Ottawa joyfully declines. Just keep JJ, you honestly can't afford to give up prospects or picks it would take to get rid of him.


what's your ask. I really would as I can't afford to have over 3 Million sit on the bench or heaven forbid, play...
26 sep à 18 h 37
#6
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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Quoting: csick
I’ll trade you for Pettersson


my first thought was Pettersson is getting moved but after hearing GMJR speak I think JJ is the odd man out....what's Pettersson's value to OTT in your opinion?
csick et mhockey91 a aimé ceci.
26 sep à 18 h 38
#7
KFTW
Rejoint: jui 2018
Messages: 15,690
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Quoting: Pens3lieve
my first thought was Pettersson is getting moved but after hearing GMJR speak I think JJ is the odd man out....what's Pettersson's value to OTT in your opinion?


I can give u Tierney and a 2nd or something. Or I can give u Isles 1st and a medium prospect
26 sep à 18 h 39
#8
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
If Kapanen pays with Malkin, he'll score more goals than Willy Nylander, making the Leafs look foolish.


I'd play him (KK) with Malkin, as I think Zucker and rust should be split up as they are the same type of winger. I like guentzel with Sid so that throws KK with Geno...I'm not ruling out KK popping 25-30 if he goes ballistic with a 2019-20 Geno. if it's a bad Geno then definitely not...
26 sep à 18 h 41
#9
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 1,191
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Quoting: csick
I can give u Tierney and a 2nd or something. Or I can give u Isles 1st and a medium prospect


it would depend how much GMJR wants picks to give Patrick Alvin some work to do....if PIT picks in the 1st round this year....that player won't be ready for 3 years prob, if at all...I just don't see PIT acquiring picks unless they trade them or the prospects drafted away again...if Tierney could sign for under 3.5 and be a better #3C, eh might be a good fit...
csick a aimé ceci.
26 sep à 18 h 43
#10
Rejoint: nov 2018
Messages: 4,265
Mentions "j'aime": 938
Quoting: Pens3lieve
I'd play him (KK) with Malkin, as I think Zucker and rust should be split up as they are the same type of winger. I like guentzel with Sid so that throws KK with Geno...I'm not ruling out KK popping 25-30 if he goes ballistic with a 2019-20 Geno. if it's a bad Geno then definitely not...


Malkin will be a Seattle Kraken player I fear...just like M.A. Fleury going to Vegas...The Pens could recover alot of potential if they make that move with GMJR's old buddy and former Cane/Pen legend Ron Francis in charge of the Kraken. Most definitely would hit the fast forward on the rebuild button, moving on from Malkin if next year fails.
26 sep à 18 h 46
#11
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 329
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Really a big fan of this team on paper.
mhockey91 et Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
26 sep à 18 h 49
#12
Let’s make a deal
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 299
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I won’t crucify you but there’s no way that gets you Josh anderson. He wants a long term contract w/ cbj and at worst he’s getting moved for a second via an offer sheet.
benjgc a aimé ceci.
26 sep à 18 h 58
#13
Rejoint: jun 2018
Messages: 6,932
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Kap isn't an effective PKer, he's a power killer, he just tries to do the offense on the PK, and calling Bjorkqvist and Lindgren seconds and thirds is like calling JJ a 3rd overall pick, neither will be in the NHL.
26 sep à 19 h 18
#14
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 10,969
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That’s a terrible trade for the avs, they aren’t moving Timmins and they don’t want Murray
26 sep à 20 h 09
#15
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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Quoting: The_Cannon
I won’t crucify you but there’s no way that gets you Josh anderson. He wants a long term contract w/ cbj and at worst he’s getting moved for a second via an offer sheet.


that's fair I'd do that. what do you think he. gets in a contract...?
26 sep à 20 h 10
#16
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Malkin will be a Seattle Kraken player I fear...just like M.A. Fleury going to Vegas...The Pens could recover alot of potential if they make that move with GMJR's old buddy and former Cane/Pen legend Ron Francis in charge of the Kraken. Most definitely would hit the fast forward on the rebuild button, moving on from Malkin if next year fails.


wow, haven't hear that one before....I guess it's possible...didn't make the Francis connection yet...I wonder but I think Geno will most likely finish his career with PIT.
26 sep à 21 h 09
#17
Let’s make a deal
Rejoint: aoû 2019
Messages: 299
Mentions "j'aime": 144
Quoting: Pens3lieve
that's fair I'd do that. what do you think he. gets in a contract...?



I’d say like 2 plus prospect or he’s in a package that gets us a huge upgrade.
benjgc a aimé ceci.
27 sep à 11 h 39
#18
Hockey Super Genius
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 2,842
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How can u not like the Deal??? BTW add Kaut to that deal & im down.

A 34yr old beat up 4th line RWer that maybe gets u 50 gms if lucky & most thought we'd have to pay to get rid of
FOR
A 26yr old Former 1st Rdr that has elite skating & did have a down yr - BUT THE DUDE IS 26 GOD DARN YRS OLD ??? I mean Pens fans how do u not get that FLA used him horribly & their was another LHD that skated great that Coach Q didnt like either - His name was T. Daley & HE WAS LIKE 32!!!
I could be biased bc Ive watched him since his BC days & always loved Matheson's game

GIVE THE DUDE A CHANCE HERE, HE IS STILL YOUNG (unlike Horny)
27 sep à 11 h 42
#19
Hockey Super Genius
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 2,842
Mentions "j'aime": 701
I see u stole my LTIR - Could be on Pens during season thing, lol
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
27 sep à 11 h 44
#20
Hockey Super Genius
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 2,842
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I dont see CBJ & Pens making a trade... I mean Id love it but just dont see it
27 sep à 15 h 06
#21
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
Messages: 1,191
Mentions "j'aime": 581
Quoting: Sidstick87
How can u not like the Deal??? BTW add Kaut to that deal & im down.

A 34yr old beat up 4th line RWer that maybe gets u 50 gms if lucky & most thought we'd have to pay to get rid of
FOR
A 26yr old Former 1st Rdr that has elite skating & did have a down yr - BUT THE DUDE IS 26 GOD DARN YRS OLD ??? I mean Pens fans how do u not get that FLA used him horribly & their was another LHD that skated great that Coach Q didnt like either - His name was T. Daley & HE WAS LIKE 32!!!
I could be biased bc Ive watched him since his BC days & always loved Matheson's game

GIVE THE DUDE A CHANCE HERE, HE IS STILL YOUNG (unlike Horny)


yeah I'm reserving my opinion until I see him play...I get he has high upside for sure...

Quoting: Sidstick87
I see u stole my LTIR - Could be on Pens during season thing, lol


IDK where I got that but....sure you can take credit, lol...

Quoting: Sidstick87
I dont see CBJ & Pens making a trade... I mean Id love it but just dont see it


yeah the whole "don't trade within the division thing" is pretty nonsensical if you ask me...I want the best players at the best prices....IDK why GMs shy away from them...it's not like Sid is going to WSH and beats us or something...
28 sep à 9 h 09
#22
Hockey Super Genius
Rejoint: jun 2015
Messages: 2,842
Mentions "j'aime": 701
Quoting: Pens3lieve
yeah I'm reserving my opinion until I see him play...I get he has high upside for sure...



IDK where I got that but....sure you can take credit, lol...



yeah the whole "don't trade within the division thing" is pretty nonsensical if you ask me...I want the best players at the best prices....IDK why GMs shy away from them...it's not like Sid is going to WSH and beats us or something...


I was just joking about using the LTIR, I thought it was funny
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
2 oct à 7 h 35
#23
Rejoint: avr 2018
Messages: 5,026
Mentions "j'aime": 1,400
Timmins, Jost for Murray, Angello
I don't think that this happens. Not for real value reasons, but for value to Colorado reasons.

Andersen for Lee, Legare
I would really like to have Anderson on the Pens, but Sullivan would hate having Andersen on the Pens. Also, I really like the idea of Legare on the Pens in a year or two. Gotta nix this one too.

7th for Johnson, Bjorkqvist, Lindgren, 3rd
Ottawa should be relegated to the AHL. It makes me lol when their fans turn down trades. Frankly, this could be Bjorkqvist, Lindgren OR the 3rd and it would still be good for Ottawa.
Pens3lieve a aimé ceci.
2 oct à 10 h 46
#24
Démarrer sujet
Hockey IQ
Rejoint: mai 2019
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Quoting: Yojimbo
Timmins, Jost for Murray, Angello
I don't think that this happens. Not for real value reasons, but for value to Colorado reasons.

Andersen for Lee, Legare
I would really like to have Anderson on the Pens, but Sullivan would hate having Andersen on the Pens. Also, I really like the idea of Legare on the Pens in a year or two. Gotta nix this one too.

7th for Johnson, Bjorkqvist, Lindgren, 3rd
Ottawa should be relegated to the AHL. It makes me lol when their fans turn down trades. Frankly, this could be Bjorkqvist, Lindgren OR the 3rd and it would still be good for Ottawa.


all makes sense.
 
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