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Should Dubas be on the Hot Seat

Équipe: 2019-20 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 6 juin 2020
Publié: 7 juin 2020
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No hate just wondering what people think. Listed some questionable moves by KD
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7 juin 2020 à 17 h 31
#1
Just Keep Swimming
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No and none of those moves are questionable.
Anyone who thinks he should be, or is even a bad gm don't have a clue
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 41
#2
exo2769
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Quoting: Random2152
No and none of those moves are questionable.
Anyone who thinks he should be, or is even a bad gm don't have a clue


I like Dubas as a GM. He's creative and works just about every angle he can to put the best team on the ice. I don't think he should be on the hot seat, but these trades also shouldn't be a free pass either. Everything should be in consideration when evaluating him as a GM. For the record...they are bad trades...and if anyone who thinks they aren't or are even meh ok trades doesn't have a clue.
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 43
#3
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i mean, the kadri trade felt like a big win trade for the leafs at first but when barrie wasnt playing as he had in COL, it definitely hurt a bit in hindsight. I think dubas jumped on the first offer to get rid of the marleau contract, but it did have to be done (note that marleau contract was not signed while he was GM). zaitsev and muzzin deals are no brainers. if barrie goes hard like he did last playoffs and does super well along with kerfoot being good defensively or if they trade him for next season and get a decent return, it'll probably put that kadri trade at ease for me a bit. campbell trade needed to happen, and we got good term on that as well. i really enjoyed watching moore play, but clifford is the sandpaper that people have been yelling about for quite some time. a side note, the reasoning behind the choice of sparks over mcelhinney was right, but choosing mac would have been the correct choice in the end, even though at this point it dont matter.
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 43
#4
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no
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 45
#5
Kafle
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He isn't bad at making trades but he's terrible at signing contracts
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7 juin 2020 à 17 h 46
#6
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Quoting: Random2152
No and none of those moves are questionable.
Anyone who thinks he should be, or is even a bad gm don't have a clue


100% agree

He got rid of Lou's mess in Zaitsev and sure we lost brown but we only need to deal with GARBAGE CECI for a year. And Marleau wasnt even his contract again it was Lou's. If i was them I would have payed marleau more to take less term.
And as for Kadri, he did it to himself. Got suspended twice in 2 years of playoffs against boston. If he acted accordingly and didnt do that he would have still been here. In general if Barrie and Kerfoot played like they did in Colorado nobody would be complaining but it just didnt happen. I still think kerfoot will bounce back but barrie is better off going to a team like calgary.
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7 juin 2020 à 17 h 47
#7
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Absolutely not.
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 49
#8
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Quoting: aadoyle
100% agree

He got rid of Lou's mess in Zaitsev and sure we lost brown but we only need to deal with GARBAGE CECI for a year. And Marleau wasnt even his contract again it was Lou's. If i was them I would have payed marleau more to take less term.
And as for Kadri, he did it to himself. Got suspended twice in 2 years of playoffs against boston. If he acted accordingly and didnt do that he would have still been here. In general if Barrie and Kerfoot played like they did in Colorado nobody would be complaining but it just didnt happen. I still think kerfoot will bounce back but barrie is better off going to a team like calgary.


The thing is though, that Barrie did perform up to expectations once he was actually utilized the way he should be (when Keefe took over).
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 49
#9
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I think the big issue with Dubas' tenure was contract management, not the moves. To be fair it wasn't the easiest task for an incoming GM.

I like his philosophy of relying on data analytics, although there are so many data points one can focus on. So the verdict is still on. I still think the team isn't sharp defensively, and it's where stats could have helped to find undervalued players.

The trades, on the other hand, aren't that bad. The Muzzin trade, given the re-sign, is probably a good one. The Zaitsev trade, too. And Marleau's third year was Lou's legacy.
7 juin 2020 à 17 h 52
#10
Just Keep Swimming
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Quoting: exo2769
I like Dubas as a GM. He's creative and works just about every angle he can to put the best team on the ice. I don't think he should be on the hot seat, but these trades also shouldn't be a free pass either. Everything should be in consideration when evaluating him as a GM. For the record...they are bad trades...and if anyone who thinks they aren't or are even meh ok trades doesn't have a clue.


Exactly how are any of these bad trades?
All of them were at least fair value and they all helped the team in some way, even the ones that didn't pan out as well as hoped.

If you think any of these moves are bad, you really don't know what you are talking about and it isn't even a discussion.
7 juin 2020 à 18 h 2
#11
LosPatos
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Can all leafs fans be on the hot seat so we don’t have to deal with them snymore
7 juin 2020 à 18 h 2
#12
Banni
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Quoting: Random2152
No and none of those moves are questionable.
Anyone who thinks he should be, or is even a bad gm don't have a clue


I love how many people on here say Dubas makes bad decisions and point to the Marleau trade or Zaitsev trade and say "see?" but give Lou a complete pass. Clearly is a very good thing TO went with Dubas over Lou, otherwise we wouldn't likely have JT, we would probably have over paid to keep Bozak and JVR and Leo and lost one of Nylander or Marner for a high priced old player that will without a doubt have been a bad move long term. Dubas's "Worst Moves" were cleaning up the two worst contracts on the team in Marleau and Zaitsev.
7 juin 2020 à 18 h 4
#13
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yes. bad trades and bad signings.
7 juin 2020 à 18 h 7
#14
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
I like Dubas as a GM. He's creative and works just about every angle he can to put the best team on the ice. I don't think he should be on the hot seat, but these trades also shouldn't be a free pass either. Everything should be in consideration when evaluating him as a GM. For the record...they are bad trades...and if anyone who thinks they aren't or are even meh ok trades doesn't have a clue.


The Muzzin trade and the Campbell trades are both clear cut wins. The Marleau trade was necessary and was due to the boneheaded contract Lou gave to a 37 year old player. The Ottawa trade was also necessary due to the boneheaded contract given to Zaitsev, once again by Lou. In hind site the Kadri trade isn't the best but I'd hardly say its terrible. What good is Kadri when he's just going to get himself suspended for being an idiot in the playoffs again. I also think its too early to say for certain if that trade was bad or not. Kerfoot could rebound and prove to be an effective 3C. Give him a clearly defined roll and consistent linemates and he could settle into the roll nicely. If not then yeah it was a loss. But not really a major one.
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7 juin 2020 à 18 h 16
#15
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Quoting: kafle22
He isn't bad at making trades but he's terrible at signing contracts


Is McDavid's contract a problem in Edmonton? Or Eichel's in Buffalo? Give stars star money isn't a problem. Matthews making what he makes and JT and Marner is all fine. You can't say a GM is bad at contracts unless he's overpaying people that would never be able to live up to their contract. Marner scoring 90+ points and Matthews scoring 50+ goals and being a two way force is going to pay for itself. GM's get into trouble by rewarding vets for what they did in their prime, or overpaying depth. Dubas doesn't do that. Sure it would be nice to have some extra term but it would have cost too much and honestly doesn't matter. He didn't overpay Kapanen, or Johnsson or Kerfoot and the Muzzin contract was better than everyone on here predicted it would be. Dubas is terrific.
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7 juin 2020 à 18 h 24
#16
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J.T. signing....fail.
Nylander contract fiasco....fail.
Mathews over payment....fail.
Marner over payment....fail.
Obsession over analytics when everyone screams Leafs need to be playoff tough....fail.
Forever search for a top pair RHD....fail.
Never getting past the 1st Rd of the playoffs....fail.
Watching Lou's NYI do better.....fail.
7 juin 2020 à 18 h 58
#17
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I have mixed feelings about Dubas, he has made some decent trades but hasn’t done enough to improve the teams defence. Offensively the leafs are no doubt a top team but the defence isn’t built for playoff success and the money spent on the big forward names is limiting their ability to address the D. I think if the team has another early exit then he needs to make a serious move to avoid the hot seat. This team has had the big stars long enough now that they should be performing in the playoffs.
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 0
#18
Banni
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
J.T. signing....fail.
Nylander contract fiasco....fail.
Mathews over payment....fail.
Marner over payment....fail.
Obsession over analytics when everyone screams Leafs need to be playoff tough....fail.
Forever search for a top pair RHD....fail.
Never getting past the 1st Rd of the playoffs....fail.
Watching Lou's NYI do better.....fail.


Anyone who thinks Lou is doing better is equally as outdated as Lou is. Just pining for the old days when you can "real men" playing the game the right way. Lets bring back clutch and grab and not pay anyone anything until they are 30 and declining. When the Leafs go on a run, fans like you shouldn't be allowed to cheer for them.
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 0
#19
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Quoting: leaflet
I think the big issue with Dubas' tenure was contract management, not the moves. To be fair it wasn't the easiest task for an incoming GM.

I like his philosophy of relying on data analytics, although there are so many data points one can focus on. So the verdict is still on. I still think the team isn't sharp defensively, and it's where stats could have helped to find undervalued players.

The trades, on the other hand, aren't that bad. The Muzzin trade, given the re-sign, is probably a good one. The Zaitsev trade, too. And Marleau's third year was Lou's legacy.


Quoting: kafle22
He isn't bad at making trades but he's terrible at signing contracts


Quoting: exo2769
I like Dubas as a GM. He's creative and works just about every angle he can to put the best team on the ice. I don't think he should be on the hot seat, but these trades also shouldn't be a free pass either. Everything should be in consideration when evaluating him as a GM. For the record...they are bad trades...and if anyone who thinks they aren't or are even meh ok trades doesn't have a clue.


Quoting: DirtyDangle
yes. bad trades and bad signings.

I really don’t get why people think he is so **** at contracts. I will say this the Marner contract YES is not great it’s an overpayment by like 1.5 to 2 million over. Now with that being said Nylanders contract is good just look at his comparables. The Matthews contract is high and is not that much term BUT it was widely known in the NHL that Arizona was going to offer sheet him to max money and max term so to me keeping him at what they did when everyone know what was coming is a win and at less money. The Tavares contract is fine it was even one of if not the lowest value contract that was offered to John at the time. Johnsson and kappy are both fair value contracts again look at their comparables. You could say he’s not good at getting home town discounts and sure that could be argued but this idea that he always gets ****ed by agents and always overpays is just NOT true. Even when you look at the marner deal yes it’s an overpayment but he got 6 years look at contracts like matthew tkachuk he makes under 4 million less than marner a season but was only signed for 3 years literally HALF the amount of time and that’s gonna suck to have to reup him in only 3 years we’ll 2 years now. The contract also looks worse now with the whole stoppage and that effecting the cap.
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7 juin 2020 à 19 h 8
#20
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Quoting: Jameshgfgn
I really don’t get why people think he is so **** at contracts. I will say this the Marner contract YES is not great it’s an overpayment by like 1.5 to 2 million over. Now with that being said Nylanders contract is good just look at his comparables. The Matthews contract is high and is not that much term BUT it was widely known in the NHL that Arizona was going to offer sheet him to max money and max term so to me keeping him at what they did when everyone know what was coming is a win and at less money. The Tavares contract is fine it was even one of if not the lowest value contract that was offered to John at the time. Johnsson and kappy are both fair value contracts again look at their comparables. You could say he’s not good at getting home town discounts and sure that could be argued but this idea that he always gets ****ed by agents and always overpays is just NOT true. Even when you look at the marner deal yes it’s an overpayment but he got 6 years look at contracts like matthew tkachuk he makes under 4 million less than marner a season but was only signed for 3 years literally HALF the amount of time and that’s gonna suck to have to reup him in only 3 years we’ll 2 years now. The contract also looks worse now with the whole stoppage and that effecting the cap.


he caved on the nylander contract..have him everything. as a result matthews and marner got too much money for too little term. kerfoot contract too much and too long. i can see why agents love him
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7 juin 2020 à 19 h 9
#21
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Anyone who thinks Lou is doing better is equally as outdated as Lou is. Just pining for the old days when you can "real men" playing the game the right way. Lets bring back clutch and grab and not pay anyone anything until they are 30 and declining. When the Leafs go on a run, fans like you shouldn't be allowed to cheer for them.


J.T. signing create a cap hell more so the Lou's Marleau and Zaitsev contract. A domino effect which has Dubas finger prints all over.
Nylander contract was a win for the player and showed all other player agents that Dubas was weak, more domino effects.
Matthews and Marner overpaid for too short of a term.
3 years no 2nd Rd hockey, with every playoff loss being deemed for being too soft and fragile.
Zaitsev was never given a chance under Keefe and Hainsey stole his spot beside Reilly. Who knows if Keefe could have turn Z into Top RHD like Keefe turned AHL'er Holl into Top 4 Dman.
NYI Lou won a playoff round and have tons of cap space to play with.
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 17
#22
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
he caved on the nylander contract..have him everything. as a result matthews and marner got too much money for too little term. kerfoot contract too much and too long. i can see why agents love him

You didn’t read what I wrote did you. I’m gonna guess you read the first sentence and responded since I addressed that. The kerfoot contract is fine maybe a little high but you traded for him kerfoot had the position of strength in the negotiations
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 20
#23
Banni
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
J.T. signing create a cap hell more so the Lou's Marleau and Zaitsev contract. A domino effect which has Dubas finger prints all over.
Nylander contract was a win for the player and showed all other player agents that Dubas was weak, more domino effects.
Matthews and Marner overpaid for too short of a term.
3 years no 2nd Rd hockey, with every playoff loss being deemed for being too soft and fragile.
Zaitsev was never given a chance under Keefe and Hainsey stole his spot beside Reilly. Who knows if Keefe could have turn Z into Top RHD like Keefe turned AHL'er Holl into Top 4 Dman.
NYI Lou won a playoff round and have tons of cap space to play with.


If Lou hadn't signed Marleau or Zaitsev to those terrible contracts (there is no way they are not terrible) Dubas wouldn't have had to spend assets to move them. That is on Lou. The fact Dubas was able to get JT and still sign Matthews, Marner and Nylander (who has the best contract on the team) is a huge win.

I don't think it would have mattered if Zaitsev played under Keefe or not, he didn't really have the tools to be more than what he is. A Righty who can dump the puck out but isn't very good handling the puck. The 7 years term on that deal made it hugely problematic.

As for Lou winning a playoff round, who cares, they got the best possible 1st round matchup that year and then immediately got it handed to them by Carolina who also got it handed to them by the Bruins who the Leafs took to 7 games and was the hardest matchup Boston had in the playoffs apart from St Louis. Dubas is terrific and once people stop blaming him for Lou's mistakes and the team gets a full season under Keefe a lot of people are going to be eating their words.
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 21
#24
Banni
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Quoting: DirtyDangle
he caved on the nylander contract..have him everything. as a result matthews and marner got too much money for too little term. kerfoot contract too much and too long. i can see why agents love him


He caved in Nylander? So the guy asking for 8+ million and getting less than 7 is caving? You are just a lost cause
7 juin 2020 à 19 h 24
#25
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1. Campbell/Clifford Trade was not an L. Trading some prospects and two thirds for a grinder and a reliable backup was a huge win. No more unreliable backup. (I think people forget how TERRIBLE the goaltending was behind Freddy before Campbell. )

2. JT signing was great. He takes all of the hard matchups of of Matthews shoulders and is a great mentor to Matthews, Marner, Nylander etc.

3. This trade was his worst. Only because Barrie was used by Babcock In a way he wasn’t supposed to. No one knew that Barrie would slump in Toronto , and that’s the risk you take when you make trades. So yes, this is his worst.

4. Muzzin Trade ROCKED. Second best dman behind Rielly. He’s a huge presence in the room and is their best defensive dman.

5. Ceci Trade was necessary, as Zaitsev hated babs and management. Brown didn’t work out, and to get a defence man for him was great. But alas, ceci falls victim to the ruthless media.

6. Finally, Marleau had to leave so we could keep the big three.
 
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