That 3-way trade is way too convenient for Detroit, there's no reason for Toronto not to just do that trade with PHI.

The only player that Vancouver would trade Hughes for on the Red Wings is Seider. Raymond doesn't fill a need.

You're probably being way too harsh on Raymond, maybe a change in equipment is what is necessary.

Delete this.

I don't think those concerns around Raymond are anything more than a young player still growing into their frame and getting used to the physicality of the NHL. Pettersson was noticeably "light" on his feet even at the WJC. As long as he has the discipline to work out and improve (which he does) he'll be fine.

Did you watch much of Brady Tkachuk in his first few years? Also a 4th overall pick, Dude was like strong as an Ox even as a teenager, but he was like a baby deer on his skates. Fell over constantly, he just didn't have that skating strength. He's 23 now, and he's on pace for 40 goals, 100 points and his skating improvement has been a huge part of that.

Not saying they're similar players at all, but if you give up on a player with the skill Raymond has for being a flawed skater at 20, you'll be regretting it into his late 30s.

yikes......

"The amount of times Lucas Raymond just falls down onto the ice or just straight up loses the puck when faced with any amount of pressure is alarming to me. And I’m not talking about getting outmuscled by a larger/more seasoned opponent because that happens often as well, idk I’d expect him to get stronger and more coordinated in the future but he’s been really ugly to watch for my liking."

That's not quite the words you use to sell Raymond to the Canucks in a trade targeting their best defenseman who is locked up for the next 5 years. Brutal trade, Alvin laughs you off.

Eh, ok, then make it two separate trades. I guess one point of TOR not going directly to PHI would be the cap.

I certainly am an impatient person.



I wouldn’t call swapping a player with loads of potential like Lucas Raymond for Quinn Hughes “giving up” on him.

Why.

What’s the problem.

Leafs would just take Konecny with the 3 years of term. The valuation is off by a wide margin if you consider the difference between 1 year of Bertuzzi and 3 years of Konecny to be a 4th round pick.

Oh, dang I should have hyped him up so you would say yes to it…

Oh well, it’s actually not a brutal trade. I would venture to guess that if we asked 100 wings fans on this site if they’d even do that trade, about 80+ would say no. I’m of the minority.

Aside from my assessment - Raymond is one of top young players in the game (only 20 years old), Johannsen is an A- LHD prospect, McIsaac is a C+ and the picks could be slightly better.

I’d go as high as bumping either of the picks to a future 1st but I think it’s very even.

Sure, if the leafs could afford another $6m player.

Cap isn't much of a problem for the Leafs this season. With Muzzin LTIRetired, they'd just need to send someone like an Engvall or Kerfoot back as part of the deal. Probalby Kerfoot, which would leave 2+ mil to make another move as well.

Even going forward to next season, the Leafs are pretty comfortable. I'm going to assume a cap increase to 85 mil, a Konecny trade and the Leafs giving Knies a chance in a top 6 role. With those conditions, the Leafs would have 15.8 mil space to fill out 5 of their bottom 6 forwards and a bottom pairing defenseman...then one or two more for spares. No real crunch to be had there, they are set cap wise.

It's an absolutely brutal trade....for both sides.

Sounds like an impressive feat. Thank you.

So you’re saying you’d rather have Konecny than Bertuzzi. Got it.

I don't think there's a team in the league who wouldn't rather have Konecny for 3 seasons than Bertuzzi for 1.

yes.

If we are trying to make Detroit the worst team in the league.

Gross overreactions.

Nope. Really, your already giving up on a 20 year old future top player because he's having some struggles at the beginning of his second season after overachieving in his first. BTW, he's still on pace for the same amount of points he had last year with a higher shooting percentage. How can you build a hockey team with such short sightedness.

And what’s your evaluation of Quinn Hughes?

I’m sorry but, in my opinion, having a dynamic young Defenseman signed long term is much more valuable than a winger that might at some point become dynamic.

It’s not shortsighted it’s called being proactive. If you’d rather have a Lucas Raymond over a Quinn Hughes; we just have a fundamental disagreement brother.

Are you going to trade Seider next cause he's not playing as well as last year. We have lots of defenseman. None as dynamic as Hughes but I'd rather be patient and see how they turn out. We are doing better than expected as a team, we don't need to jump the gun yet

Like I said, you’re overreacting by calling this route becoming the worst team in the league.

Swapping Raymond & Bertuzzi for Hughes & Konecny does not make us the worst team in the league.

But we disagree, I think it makes us better, you think it catapults us into the worst team in the league. It’s cool.

The reasoning behind the trade is what makes me feel like those types of decisions will eventually make us the worst team in the league. We will have to re- rebuild.