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Stats Are For Losers
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Forum: Armchair-GM7 juin à 21 h 42
Forum: Armchair-GM7 juin à 2 h 8
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Swedish_Mafia</b></div><div>I just don’t buy the “winning culture” narrative as much as most. I think it can help on the edges, but teams with the most talent get labeled with good culture because they win. The wings haven’t made the playoffs since 2016, any winning culture is long gone. Finishing 4th from the bottom or 12th from the bottom isn’t impacting it either way.

When I say they pulled the plug early it is because it was clear that they hadn’t yet acquired enough elite talent at the top of the draft to compete at a truly elite level. Seider and Raymond are great players, and Kasper, Cossa, Edvinsson look like they’ll play meaningful NHL hockey, but they needed a true 1C. They would have been far better served biting the bullet on one more year of serious pain and bringing in a Fantilli, for example.

They went the other way and brought in a number of mid-tier free agents that weren’t going to get you to the playoffs, but were also going to keep you from the truly elite level prospect they needed. In my opinion it was a mistake then, and I still think it was. Currently, they look like a team headed for the mushy middle without some creative maneuvering to acquire the type of talent they will need.</div></div>

Bro we need to stop saying the same exact things, people are gonna think we’re the same person using burner accounts. 😂 I agree with every single word you have said.
Forum: Armchair-GM7 juin à 2 h 5
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lancebmx</b></div><div>On your team though, McIsaac doesn't get a contract. He's playing in Europe or something. I doubt he gets tendered a qualifying offer.
Berggren doesn't really deserve that much money, I think he gets a bit extra but that's quite a bit. Could work out really well if he plays well. The risk might be worth it.
Johansson doesn't get that much, can likely get him on a two year deal for under a million.
Lindholm isn't signing a one year deal, not at his age.
Duchene likely gets that offer at least in Dallas and stays there.
You were complaining about the big contracts to not great players then sign 30 year old Skjei to a big 6 year deal and 32 year old be Hakanpaa to a 3 year deal. Nothing against those players but those deals won't agree well at all.
Giving up a first, even if there is questionable cap attached, for a 34 year old goalie is also not great.</div></div>

The Berggren deal I went on the higher side for the term. Sure he could sign a 2 year deal around $1.4m or so, but since I expect him to outplay that contract, he’d likely command double or triple on his next contract. The 3 year deal at a higher AAV gives us leverage in that 2nd or 3rd year to not only have a cheap quality player but also a value trade chip.

I’m not trading a 1st round pick for Markstrom; I am trading a 1st round pick for a 50% retained Markstrom whilst dumping Chiarot &amp; Husso’s contracts. Not to mention the 1st rounder came from Carolina in the Walman &amp; Veleno deal. So ultimately if I can move Walman, Chiarot &amp; Husso’s contracts at the expense of Joe Veleno and a couple 2nd round picks while solidifying our goaltending at a low dollar amount until Cossa is ready, I am doing that. Besides, what better veteran goaltender could we add than a guy who Cossa very naturally projects so similarly to.

Hakanpaa I love. There are a few players in this league who are overlooked and are quite simply “role” players and they fit them to a tee and I am very endeared to those types of players; Garnet Hathaway is one of those guys and Hakanpaa is another. What you see is what you get with him and he does what he’s asked to do, a big body, physical and I think he’d be perfect next to Edvinsson. He deserves every penny of that deal at a measly $2.5m.

The Skjei deal, admittedly wasn’t my favorite option. I think he is a fine player and next to Seider he’s a legitimate top pair defenseman. My preference/goal would be to somehow pry away Jonas Brodin from Minnesota albeit probably unrealistic. I flirted with the idea of packaging Wallinder &amp; the 15oa pick for him but decided to keep as many assets in our back pockets to potentially make a big move at the deadline or the following season and elected to go the FA route.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 54
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lancebmx</b></div><div>That's not really long term, mid term. Berggren should have been in the NHL yes, but that's really it out of the players this year. Edvinsson had surgery and was best suited to start in the AHL. Also going to need guys to help teach the young players when they come up. I have no issues with Chiarot, Copp, Husso or Compher.
Husso was coming off of some good seasons, he made a move to try and make our goaltending better, it didn't work out. It was the same with Ned but they screwed Ned around.
Chiarot was literally the best defenseman available in that free agency year. We needed a defenseman and we needed toughness, he addressed both. Would it have been nice to have a shorter term deal, sure, but he had to beat out the other teams as well. I've also never been a fan of him but I understand why he signed him.
Copp is exactly what they need him to be, he isn't any less than he was in Winnipeg. His time with the Rangers was a one off for sure. Maybe a slight overpay but we needed a centre and got a centre. I would actually argue he's been producing better since he gets about 15% less o-zone starts compared to his time with the Jets. He's a good leader and our best defensive centre. He will be a good mentor for Kasper.
Compher was decent enough at 2C. It's he the best option option available, no but he was one of the best options available in free agency last year. He was literally the second best centre available after ROR, but 4 years younger. Again we needed a centre and went and got one.
With Berggren being stuck in the AHL, that was just unfortunate circumstance for him. 22/23 season we got decimated with injuries and iced basically an AHL team. Last offseason he went and signed players so we actually had some depth, we didn't get decimated with injuries this year so he was the unfortunate one being waiver exempt to go to the minors. Then add Kane into the mix.....
Holl was a rough one, we needed RHD and he overpaid to get it. It didn't work out. The rest of the free agent signings have been exactly as advertised. Perron was good for us. Lyon was really good for us. Reimer was decent enough. Gost was great for the powerplay. Sprong did offense.
He was able to trade for Debrincat for cheap, great move there.
All of the players signed though, placeholders. They are all players that will help compliment our young guys when they come up. You can't just throw young guys on the team and tell them to figure it out. You need good veterans to shelter them. Look at Buffalo as an example of that.
All in all I would say he's done a pretty good job trading this team from being one of the worst a couple years ago to almost a playoff team with one of the better prospect pools in the league. Definitely made mistakes but show me a GM that hasn't.</div></div>

I think you’re a very knowledgeable and logical Red Wings / hockey fan. With that being said, you seem like a very optimistic person and your view on this topic isn’t wrong; it’s just very optimistic.

Copp is a LW. Sure, he can play Center, but he’s a LW. He’s also a 3rd line talent. I always looked at that signing as an eventual replacement for Bertuzzi and fully expected Yzerman to acquire a real top 6 Center and that hasn’t happened yet.

Compher is a good player, like Copp, but he’s also a 3rd liner. He is a real Center, though, so that’s cool.

Both these guys were signed too long and for too much money. I know you’re saying there wasn’t many options but, that’s an excuse. We could have traded for Monahan like we mentioned previously or we could have signed any veteran NHLer to do very similar to what both those players have done for less money and much shorter term and revisited the need in the following offseason until a great fit came along.

Husso deal I hated from the start. Trading for a pending UFA’s rights unless it’s a superstar is just asinine to me. Again, another one of those “smartest man in the room” deals. He did play well his first year, which, I never thought he was a bad player and still do not, but again, why trade assets, and spend $15m on a player who isn’t going to be much better than a veteran goaltender that we could just sign to a 1 year deal for much less, or hell, the same AAV but for 1 year instead of 3 or 4.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 36
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Swedish_Mafia</b></div><div>Fully agree. Every one of those signing was blatantly bad before the ink was dry. My take is that he got sick of losing and pulled the plug early on the rebuild when the team was half baked. They needed another year at the bottom before they started adding veterans.

I think the reality of the situation is he probably got a little lucky in Tampa on a couple guys (Vasi, Point), and Hedman/Stammer were already there. I think most NHL GMs are pretty bad at their job, and he is probably just slightly less bad than the norm.

It’s a boys club with 32 guys who are more concerned with job preservation than actually doing what’s best for the team. The fact that no one ever offer sheets anyone is the silliest thing in the world to me.</div></div>

100%

The offer sheet thing too is weird to me too. It’s blatant collusion. Idk how that flies in this league.

Every season I look at a handful of players and calculate what it would take to force a team to not match an offer sheet and it’s fun but a wholly useless act on my part.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 32
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lancebmx</b></div><div>I agree on the cap dump stuff. But maybe they he wasn't allowed to spend too the cap at the time? The team has declining ticket sales and just built a new arena. Maybe they were penny pinching. Have to remember there is a business side of things, not making excuses just making a statement.
I'm also also saddened about the Marleau and Monahan deals. Monahan especially cause we needed a centre. Another one I was hoping for was the Gostisbehere deal, we needed a left handed defenseman and more offense, went to Arizona. Maybe behind the scenes the deals weren't presented to him? Maybe he ask was just a bit high? Could be a bunch of contributing factors to it.
I like at players like Wyatt Johnston and Brock Faber and see how we missed drafting them. I've never looked the idea of trading down and it pisses me off when he does.</div></div>

I agree with everything you said. I suppose that explanation could absolutely be a possibility, we will never know.

It still bothers me though, and people always look at me like I’m crazy when I say this but, even the Seider pick irks me to this day. I remember watching the draft and I actually wanted Seider; just NOT at #6. My brother said to me at the time, “what if he turns into a Nicklas Lidstrom type player” and I said I still don’t like the pick, love the player, don’t like the spot.

I did a mock draft prior to that draft and I had us taking Trevor Zegras, my sights were set on the two American boys, Zegras &amp; Boldy, obviously you can only get one. And I actually had us trading back into the 1st round to #24 to take Seider. Now, maybe Seider wasn’t going to be on the board that late, but I still believe he would have been there somewhere in the teens, but we’ll never know.

I definitely wouldn’t have taken a defenseman who I thought was not necessarily dynamic offensively that high in the draft which was another element of the player that bothered me. We had the draft capital at the time to move up in the draft and something like what I suggested could have worked.

At the end of the day I’m fine with the player, he’s been nothing short of terrific, but you can’t help but think IF Yzerman did maneuver in that draft and got us Zegras or Boldy and made a shrewd move to swing back into the first round and get Seider too? That would have been something.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 18
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Lancebmx</b></div><div>Yzerman wants to build a team through the draft. He's missed on some picks for sure but most of his first rounders have looked good. UFAs are place holders, it's pretty easy to see, in I don't understand how people don't. No one is signed for long term.
It sucks missing out on guys like Faber and Johnston and stuff, players that were drafted with picks we owned, but you never know.
Takes time to draft and develop players.</div></div>

No one is signed long term? He’s signed 4 mediocre players to deals between 3-5 years. Holl, Chiarot, Copp &amp; Compher. A combined nearly $20m “placeholders” for another 2-4 seasons.

U don’t have to sugarcoat it for anybody, this is what it is.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 16
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Swedish_Mafia</b></div><div>I’m no Yzerman apologist. In fact, I think he’s been fairly mediocre in him time in Detroit. Stellar first round drafting, and absolutely head scratching free agent signings. But “cap hell” is not accurate. They can buy out Holl and have all the money/spots they need to re-sign Raymond/Seider to 8 year deals, Kane to 6 mil, bring back all RFAs and move Edvinsson, Johansson, Kasper, and Mazur up to the big club. Do I like the way the team looks when you go that conservative? Not really. But their situation is very manageable.</div></div>
Yeah, I don’t think we’re in “cap hell” either which is why I put the “arguably” in front. But you fail to mention the Copp, Compher, Husso, Chiarot &amp; Fabbri signings/extensions. Those players are all serviceable but certainly should not have been compensated in the manner in which they were. Every Detroit fan who isn’t a homer and is knowledgeable on hockey knows that and knew that at the time.

And you did mention the Holl signing and that might have been the most idiotic thing he’s done since he’s been here.

It’s annoying when u see him make the moves he does and they just ooze of “I’m the smartest man in the room” vibes and they don’t pan out and you realize he in fact, isn’t.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 4
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>KingofRnR</b></div><div>We’ll find out soon, but I disagree. Markstrom is still considered elite and is a sought after goaltender that at least 5 teams would love to have. With retention, he should bring a 1st + Player + Prospect. If we added, we should be able to get an earlier pick and/or Better Prospect included. We’ll see though, I could be wrong 😑</div></div>
Oh wow, that seems very optimistic. I guess you never really know with goalies. I love Markstrom, so I agree with you about him still being elite. I feel bad for CGY, it is strange to me that nobody wants to play there, I have no idea why. But, I just figure they may be best suited to initiate some sort of rebuild or re-tool for a couple years.
Forum: Armchair-GM6 juin à 23 h 2
Sujet: Gotta Make Moves To Fix Yzermans Mess
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>SharkTank</b></div><div>I'm not sure what's going on in Detroit?

Is Yzerman just waiting for his prospects to develop and become NHL players?

Is he signing more UFA's as place holders?

I was expecting more impactful trades when Steve came back in 2019.

He's made a few.

Hit on Seider.

Hit on Raymond despite being screwed by Bettman.

I'm not going to say he's done a bad job as Red Wings GM.

He did have to clean up an absolute mess by Kenny Holland.

I'm just not sure where he goes from here?</div></div>

I certainly expected Yzerman to make a ton of trades when he took over and I’m still perplexed and disappointed in the missed opportunity on the Patrick Marleau deal in 2019 that ultimately netted Carolina Seth Jarvis.

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Yzerman &amp; Shanahan would link up in that deal and I’m still not over it. We’ve taken on one single cap dump in 6 years (Marc Staal) and he’s continued to dish out long term deal after another to mediocre players.

What bothered me almost as much as missing out on the Marleau deal was when Sean Monahan was being dangled as a cap dump who also netted MTL a first round pick for taking on just 1 year left on his deal (almost identical to the TOR/CAR deal) and instead of adding a serviceable player who played a position of need (C) and getting compensated to do so, he opted to dish out a 5 year deal to Andrew Copp. And then did it again the following season with JT Compher. Inexcusable.

To add insult to injury, Monahan was re-signed by MTL for cheap and then flipped at the deadline this past season for another 1st round pick.

Those are the kinds of moves I expected Yzerman to make, they’re moves I think about and would expect out of myself as a GM and it’s frustrating that he simply has not exhibited any form of shrewdness as GM thus far.