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Forum: Armchair-GMil y a 7 heures
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Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 9 h 3
Sujet: Aves
Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 8 h 15
Sujet: Aves
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div><strong>I'm referring back to the cup winning team </strong>as my comparison because that's the Avs team that had the actual success, not the one that bowed out early last year. Of course it makes sense to compare the GF/G between their cup run and their first round exit last year, that's literally the reason for the stark contrast in the team's success. I realized Landeskog, Kadri and Burakovsky were not there last year, I'm arguing that's why they got the result they did.

It may not be much worse than last year's forward core, but last year's forward core wasn't good enough either. That's the whole point here....</div></div>

Oh okay, it wasn't clear since you also said that they got worse than last year. I did edit the previous post, see the last part if you wish.

<strong>Comparing the GF/G rankings (that's better used as a reference point) between the two runs just tells you that one team most likely won the Cup, and that the other went out in the 1st round. If you compare both the GF/G rate and GA/rate values from the playoffs, rather than their standing, you'll get an idea of how their series went at the least but again it might not tell you much about what actually went wrong. You definitely want to compare the regular seasons (beyond saying they got fewer goals/gave up more goals) and see if it tells anything other than they weren't as good overall.
21-22 season <strong>3.76 GF/G</strong> (4th) 2.83 (9th)
22-23 season 3.34 GF/G (11th) <strong>2.72</strong> (9th)

2022 playoffs <strong>4.25</strong> GF/G (most) 2.75 GA/G (3rd least)
2023 playoffs 2.71 GF/G (12th most) <strong>2.57</strong> GA/G (3rd least)

Basically, can see that last year they were better defensively in both the regular season and the playoffs but ranked in the same position in the league while in the Cup run year, they were better offensively which isn't surprising. In 2021-22, the Avs improved from the regular season to the playoffs both offensively and defensively. In 2022-23, they improved defensively from the regular season to the playoffs but a massive decline in goal scoring. So, yeah <strong>in the end you're going to conclude that they needed more offense, and Colorado's management probably feel like they what they can to address that for now</strong>.
Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 6 h 46
Sujet: Aves
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>I don't want to have the amount of 20 goal scorers (or lack thereof) be turned into the foundation for success, 20 goals is not necessarily impressive, I was simply making a point earlier. You seem to be taking off and running with it to the point where you're overlooking the fact the Oilers had 64, 52, 37, 36 goal scorers, with E. Kane on pace for 32, lumping them altogether as simply 5 "20 goal" scorers. I think we both see the problem here...</div></div>

I think you missed where I said the Oilers had the most goals found and where some other Western teams including Colorado compared to each other. Let's just move on from that since we both agree that the exact number of 20+ goal scorers isn't really relevant.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>GMBL</b></div><div>
Worth noting that Vegas only had 3 guys with 20+ goals last year + Stone (17G in 43GP) and the Oilers only had 4 guys. The Oilers were 1st in league scoring though, Dallas was 7th, Colorado was 11th, and Vegas was 14th. Seattle was 4th. If we look at which of these teams had the least goals allowed it was Dallas who was 3rd overall. Colorado was 9th (3rd best in the West - Minnesota was 6th best overall), Vegas 11th, Seattle 15th, and Oilers 17th.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>
I don't want to get too caught up in this, but I'm suggesting this forward core does not have nearly enough potential.

You're replacing Landeskog with Drouin? Kadri with RJO? Burakovsky with Tatar? Compher with Colton? Newhook with O'Connor? Miles Wood is a good bottom 6 guy I guess?

Colorado went from being 1st in G/PG during the playoffs the year they won the cup, to 13th (out of 16 playoff teams) the year after, getting knocked out by the 8th seed in their second year as a franchise and who themselves never made it past round two. The reasons for the offensive decline are obvious and the results speak for themselves.

They've gotten worse since last year and I don't understand why they're not addressing this obvious need given the fact they should be legit contenders with guys like Rantanen, MacKinnon, Makar and Toews on the roster. You're right, that should be good enough for any team to be a contender but that forward core would make them an exception....</div></div>

Kadri and Burakovsky left the year prior, and Landeskog was out the entire season. So it's really Compher, Rodrigues, Newhook, etc...getting replaced by RJo, Tatar, Colton, etc.. So, even if you think there is a drop-off from last year, it's not as bad as you think. I'm sure Newhook will do great in MTL under St Louis but Colorado will miss him just as much as MTL will miss Drouin. Colton is a solid player who could become just as good as Rodrigues, he's only 25. I would rather have a former 1C that has fallen off in RJo as the 2C over Compher who is a 3C that just over-achieved. You might disagree with my opinions on those players but I think it's safe to say that their forward core is not much worse than last year. You're comparing their current roster to their Stanley Cup roster.

Obviously, you can still argue that their team last year wasn't good enough but at the end of the day since they got upset. I would say doesn't make much sense to compare their GF/G in the playoffs in a Cup-winning year to one that they lost in the 1st round. There definitely was a decline from their Cup year but, as I mentioned they are still one of the best in the West, tied in 4th for GF and 3rd least in the GF category.
Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 3 h 23
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>Hart has more than shown his potential as a guy who just turned 25 in August and has pretty much been the starter for a ****ty team since he was 20. If Levi can prove to be the number one you're OK with him being the number one, not much substance to that comment. I think he has potential too, but asking him to go from university hockey to the starting goalie for a contending team as a 21 year old 7th round pick is ambitious to say the least.

Quinn may turn out to be the better player, he may not. Regardless, Konecny is better now and Hart is better than any goaltender you have at this stage of their development.</div></div>

Getting a more experienced goalie even if Levi is good enough to be a starter this season would be a good idea, depending on the cost of acquisition. We saw what happened with Stuart Skinner in the playoffs and if Campbell wasn't struggling all season, then having that experienced goalie in the playoffs could have been what saved their season for another round at least. If the WJ scandal becomes a non-issue in regards to Hart, then considering his age and the fact that he's at least proven that he can be a starter, he's definitely someone the Sabres should pursue even if he doesn't end up being elite.

As for TK, I think that move is kind of unnecessary with where Buffalo is at in terms of moving toward contention. They definitely should see where they are at before trying to bring in a player like Konecny who only has 2-years left on his deal. They are better off trying to sign Patrick Kane if they are trying to get a better forward group on paper.

In terms of the trade, I think PHI wants more than this for the pair.
Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 3 h 11
Sujet: Aves
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Affectionate_Side_64</b></div><div>Some interesting mental gymnastics going on here to say the least. You're right, I did miss Tatar who scored 20 on the nose. There's nothing even remotely impressive about anything you said though, and comparing their scoring to that of the Stars last year is interesting to say the least.

Yes, they have an elite D core. That's exactly why they shouldn't be satisfied with a forward group that awful....</div></div>

You can call it interesting mental gymnastics but there's 4 guys who had 20+ goals last year, and Nuchiskin had 17 in 53 games (25 in 62 the previous year), so it's not a stretch to think they could have 5 guys with 20+ goals.

I know you were criticizing the forward group, but what I was saying was that you are overlooking the potential. I think the biggest thing that they missed in losing Kadri is having a 2C, not the production, and so if RJO can fulfill those 2C duties, then they should be better. I'm sure they would like to have a better group but they can be satisfied with what they have because, at the end of the day, their Dcore is going to make them a contender which is why I mentioned them.

Worth noting that Vegas only had 3 guys with 20+ goals last year + Stone (17G in 43GP) and the Oilers only had 4 guys. The Oilers were 1st in league scoring though, Dallas was 7th, Colorado was 11th, and Vegas was 14th. Seattle was 4th. If we look at which of these teams had the least goals allowed it was Dallas who was 3rd overall. Colorado was 9th (3rd best in the West - Minnesota was 6th best overall), Vegas 11th, Seattle 15th, and Oilers 17th.
Forum: Armchair-GMsam. à 2 h 14
Sujet: Aves