So how badly do Habs really want Subban

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Créé par: NHLfan10506

Équipe: 2021-22 Devils du New Jersey

Date de création initiale: 13 août 2021

Publié: 13 août 2021

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA		ANS	CAP HIT
Kotkaniemi, Jesperi		2	2 250 000 $

UFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Chiasson, Alex	1	1 000 000 $
Donato, Ryan	1	1 500 000 $
Svechnikov, Evgeny	1	800 000 $
Stone, Michael	1	750 000 $
Thomas, Ben	1	750 000 $

Transactions

NJD

Kotkaniemi, Jesperi [Droits de RFA]
Lehkonen, Artturi

MTL

Subban, P.K. (4 500 000 $ retained)
Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (NJD)

Détails additionnels:

We have seen wide range of trade scenarios for Subban from Habs fans on here recently.

1. KK/Lehk/Mysak/3rd (2719864)
2. Kulak/2nd (2718198)
3. Poehling/Lehk/3rd (2717145)
4. Lehkonen/Kulak/2nd (2716788)
5. Lehkonen/Harris/3rd (2716610)
6. Drouin/3rd (2716654)
7. Lehk/Kulak/5th (2716514)
8. Vejdemo/3rd (2716402)
9. Byron/2nd/2nd (2715986)
10. Future Considerations (2710744)

Kotkaniemi would be an optimistic return in any scenario. But maybe if we retained fully and added a pick (or maybe took cap back). I don't think NJD would look to Drouin, Byron or Kulak. But could certainly use a guy like Lehkonen for penalty kill.

So my guess, a even deal would be something like #3 or #5 above.

NJD

Choix de 4e ronde en 2022 (ARI)

ARI

Johnsson, Andreas

NJD

McBain, Jack [Liste de réserve]

MIN

Hellickson, Matthew [Liste de réserve]
Choix de 6e ronde en 2022 (NJD)

Rachats de contrats

Cory Schneider: 2 000 000 $

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Will Butcher: 910 569 $ (24.39%)
P.K. Subban: 4 500 000 $ (50%)

Frais appliqués

Ilya Kovalchuk: 250 000 $

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2022
2023
2024

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	81 500 000 $	66 677 235 $	0 $	3 357 500 $	14 822 765 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Zacha, Pavel 2 250 000 $2 250 000 $ C, AG UFA - 1	Hischier, Nico 7 250 000 $7 250 000 $ C UFA - 6	Bratt, Jesper 2 750 000 $2 750 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
Tatar, Tomas 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Hughes, Jack 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 850 000 $$3M) C UFA - 1	Sharangovich, Yegor 2 000 000 $2 000 000 $ C, AG, AD UFA - 2
Kuokkanen, Janne 1 825 000 $1 825 000 $ AG, C UFA - 2	Kotkaniemi, Jesperi 2 250 000 $2 250 000 $ C UFA - 1
Wood, Miles 2 750 000 $2 750 000 $ AG UFA - 1	McLeod, Michael 975 000 $975 000 $ C RFA - 2
		Lehkonen, Artturi 1 150 000 $1 150 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1
		Chiasson, Alex 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Graves, Ryan 3 166 667 $3 166 667 $ DG UFA - 2	Hamilton, Dougie 9 000 000 $9 000 000 $ DD NMC UFA - 7	Blackwood, Mackenzie 2 800 000 $2 800 000 $ G UFA - 2
Siegenthaler, Jonas 1 125 000 $1 125 000 $ DG UFA - 2	Severson, Damon 4 166 666 $4 166 666 $ DD UFA - 2	Bernier, Jonathan 4 125 000 $4 125 000 $ G UFA - 2
Bahl, Kevin 795 000 $795 000 $ (107 500 $$108K) DG RFA - 2	Smith, Ty 863 333 $863 333 $ (400 000 $$400K) DG/DD RFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Donato, Ryan 1 500 000 $1 500 000 $ AG, C, AD UFA - 1
Holtz, Alexander 925 000 $925 000 $ AD, AG RFA - 4
Boqvist, Jesper 925 000 $925 000 $ C, AG RFA - 1

Équipe de réserve
Clarke, Graeme 850 833 $850 833 $ (0 $$00 $$0) (82 500 $$82K) AD, C RFA - 3
Foote, Nolan 863 333 $863 333 $ (0 $$00 $$0) AG RFA - 3
Stone, Michael 750 000 $750 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) DD UFA - 1
Jaros, Christian 800 000 $800 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) DD UFA - 1
Wedgewood, Scott 825 000 $825 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) G UFA - 1

13 août 2021 à 14 h 41

Devil

Speak of the Devil

Rejoint: nov. 2017

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Caufield+ 3 first round picks for Subban

Reasoning: Subban has won a Norris, Caufield has not. Therefore Subban>Caufield. 3 first round picks make up the difference

justaBoss, NHLfan10506, Kotkaniemi15 and 5 others a aimé ceci.

13 août 2021 à 14 h 43

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

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If they were smart…not at all.

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13 août 2021 à 14 h 46

SevenLeg

Hop on the Slaftrain

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Lehkonen or Kulak are the likeliest pieces to be moved. There is not a scenario where Kotkaniemi or Poehling are traded for Subban. I don't even know where all those Subban talks come from.

NHLfan10506, Lenny7, AndrewLadd and 1 other person a aimé ceci.

13 août 2021 à 14 h 49

justaBoss

What in tarnation

Rejoint: oct. 2017

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Kotkaniemi for Subban would be worse than the Jones trade.

Kotkaniemi15, NJDevils1317 et Suzuki_14 a aimé ceci.

13 août 2021 à 14 h 52

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: Gofnut999

If they were smart…not at all.

I think they are pretty smart - both the organization and the fanbase.
Could find a way to fit him in.
Still is adequate middle-six d-man. Still has cannon of a shot. Still is one of better long-passers too.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 0

Lenny7

Rejoint: janv. 2017

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Quoting: SevenLeg

Lehkonen or Kulak are the likeliest pieces to be moved. There is not a scenario where Kotkaniemi or Poehling are traded for Subban. I don't even know where all those Subban talks come from.

I mean, I wouldn't put a "We're not trading Poehling!!!" caveat anywhere, but I agree with KK...only reason to move him is for a substantial upgrade up the middle IMO.

Devil a aimé ceci.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 1

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: SevenLeg

Lehkonen or Kulak are the likeliest pieces to be moved. There is not a scenario where Kotkaniemi or Poehling are traded for Subban. I don't even know where all those Subban talks come from.

I don't know where they are from either.

The two that sounded about right to me were:
Lehkonen/Poehling/3rd
Lehkonen/Harris/3rd
(both with 50% retention)

But sounds like you've got Poehling in a class with Kotkaniemi (I had figured more like Harris-value).
So maybe that first one is out.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 1

Kotkaniemi15

Former Hockey Fan

Rejoint: juin 2017

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How badly do the habs want Subban? They probably wouldn’t take him for free on league minimum.

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 2

Kotkaniemi15

Former Hockey Fan

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

You realize he’s a rental and overpaid even at 50% retained, right?

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 2

#10

NHLfan10506

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How would most Habs fans rank these def prospects?

Norlinder
Brook
Harris
Struble
Fairbrother

13 août 2021 à 15 h 3

#11

SevenLeg

Hop on the Slaftrain

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Quoting: Lenny7

I mean, I wouldn't put a "We're not trading Poehling!!!" caveat anywhere, but I agree with KK...only reason to move him is for a substantial upgrade up the middle IMO.

Well it's gonna have to be a much more valuable defenseman than Subban to consider trading him, given how thin we are at center and his good middle-six potential.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 5

#12

SevenLeg

Hop on the Slaftrain

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

I also have Poehling in the same tier as Harris in terms of potential, but our thin organizational depth at center puts him slightly ahead of Harris whose departure could be attenuated by the abundance of LD prospects.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 5

#13

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15

You realize he’s a rental and overpaid even at 50% retained, right?

Rental - yes
Overpaid - no

He would be at $4.5 million AAV (and $1 million real money).
That is probably pretty close to what he'd cost on open market for 1-year.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 15

#14

Kotkaniemi15

Former Hockey Fan

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

Rental - yes
Overpaid - no

He would be at $4.5 million AAV (and $1 million real money).
That is probably pretty close to what he'd cost on open market for 1-year.

The habs don’t care about real money. Subban might get that on the open market, but he isn’t worth that now. And the habs of all teams would be able to see the truth in Subban and know not to touch him.

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 20

#15

NJDevils1317

Rejoint: août 2021

Messages: 4,606

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Ranking the trades being forced on here bad to worst (edit: as far as NJD is concerned)....

3: Subban to MTL- I can understand from SOME capacity had there still been love for Subban in the city, but he's a 3rd liner now...
2: Eichel to NJD- Makes no sense to make a trade for a elite player with a very questionable injury when the strength of NJD should be their top two centers right now as both could have nice weapons around them to start a year
1: Quinn to NJD- Dear God, the biggest storyline I could do without

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 25

#16

Amakoue

Banni

Rejoint: juill. 2021

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No, wild aren't trading a 3rd round c prospect for a 7th round d prospect who needs to be signed this summer. I know it's not a major thing but still no

13 août 2021 à 15 h 27

#17

Campabee

Rejoint: nov. 2018

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Quoting: SevenLeg

Lehkonen or Kulak are the likeliest pieces to be moved. There is not a scenario where Kotkaniemi or Poehling are traded for Subban. I don't even know where all those Subban talks come from.

I think it's a combination of 1. Nostalgia 2. Need for a PMD and 3. Cost to aquire being low.

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 31

#18

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: Amakoue

No, wild aren't trading a 3rd round c prospect for a 7th round d prospect who needs to be signed this summer. I know it's not a major thing but still no

Its even worse than that.
He has to be signed in next two days!

(kind of calling myself out here)

Amakoue a aimé ceci.

13 août 2021 à 15 h 32

#19

Campabee

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

How would most Habs fans rank these def prospects?

Norlinder
Brook
Harris
Struble
Fairbrother

You got them about right for me just swap Harris and Struble

13 août 2021 à 15 h 46

#20

Kotkaniemi15

Former Hockey Fan

Rejoint: juin 2017

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

How would most Habs fans rank these def prospects?

Norlinder
Brook
Harris
Struble
Fairbrother

1. Norlinder - Good Top 4 D, could be as good as a #2. He’s really close to the NHL.
2. Struble - Top 4 D, very raw but he’s the youngest out of these players and has the most room for growth
3. Harris - Really solid player, close to NHL ready. He’s a safe bet to becoming a #4 or #5 2-way defenseman.
4. Brook - He’s on the older side, and he doesn’t look very close to the NHL level. Still could end up being a #4 or #5 offensive D.
5. Fairbrother - Potential to be a 5th or 6th defensive Dman

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13 août 2021 à 15 h 53

#21

Amakoue

Banni

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

Its even worse than that.
He has to be signed in next two days!

(kind of calling myself out here)

Haha lol

13 août 2021 à 16 h 1

#22

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

He’s also a cap killer, a pylon on D, slow, and a dick in the locker room. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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13 août 2021 à 16 h 6

#23

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15

Harris or Brook sounds like the guys

13 août 2021 à 16 h 11

#24

MTLaveragefan

I post sometimes

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Its purely for the meme and sentimental value...

Therefore it should only cost like Lekhonen and a third for the retention.

We like the idea, we don't really need him... but we would take him if the price is cheap.

13 août 2021 à 16 h 13

#25

NHLfan10506

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Quoting: Gofnut999

He’s also a cap killer, a pylon on D, slow, and a dick in the locker room. 🤷🏻‍♂️

1-year at $4.5 million is nothing.
He was slow in 2013 (won Norris), also slow in 2018 (Norris-runner-up).
And he has been good in locker room since he arrived in NJ.

But we get it, Boston hates Subban.

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