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My suspicions with Holland

Créé par: BeterChiarelli
Équipe: 2021-22 Oilers d'Edmonton
Date de création initiale: 26 mai 2021
Publié: 26 mai 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Disclaimer: absolutely not what I'd do.

Today's afternoon presser emphasized Smith's return, buyouts, and Holland's unwillingness to do a few things:
-He's against mortgaging the future
-He's not going to go out and hunt the giant UFAs (read: Grubauer, Hamilton, etc)
-He's against making a big trade to address roster concerns

We also have other unknowns regarding the organization and Holland himself:
-He loves his Red Wings
-The organization does not subscribe to conventional analytics and will either make unintelligent decisions or risky ones

That said, I think Holland wants to bring back as much of this year's team as possible, or at least the higher-end pieces. Barrie, Koekkoek, Shore, and Smith were all pieces he brought in that worked (or appeared to), and I wouldn't be surprised if he doubles down on them. Larsson and RNH extensions have been floated for a while and I suspect the intention will be to bring both guys back.

Driedger is not my first option for a new goaltender: I think he's incredibly unproven despite success this year and would prefer Ullmark. I think the organization likes Chris better though.

Glendenning and Tatar meet the former Red Wing quota but Luke comes at an overpay in both AAV and term: the lack of an analytics department is going to hamper the organization's understanding of why the bottom-six sucked eggs this year and they'll make a less-than-deal add thinking they've solved the problem. I like Tatar though.

Tippett's disdain for Bear and Holland's desire to bring Barrie back are going to intersect and he'll be traded for a minimal package that helps the team's long-term pipeline. Holland can't get over losing the Athanasiou deal and appears paranoid to not have draft picks. Toronto is going to hop all over Bear's availability in order to drive their tenure on top of the league. It's a disaster waiting to happen and very reminiscent of the Petry trade. Edmonton's probably getting less than half of equivalent value here.

Turris absolutely gets waived but I have a hunch he'd be claimed if it happens: relatively cheap, only one year, GMs will still think he's a bounceback candidate or at least a live body to delay the premature promotion of a prospect.

I think there's a chance Holland goes Ennis > Holloway given that it's rare for Old Dutch to play a guy full-time in the NHL after his D+1 season but if Larkin did, Holloway could as well.
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    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 48
    #1
    wpg
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    well my take is Holland is the best thing that happened since McDavid for the Oilers.... he really set the ship straight from the Chiarelli mess, their best years r ahead of them
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    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 49
    #2
    FKA Bigtittielarper
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    Another year of mcdavid wasted lol I hope Holland doesn’t do that but you sound like you’re onto something
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    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 50
    #3
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    New Jersey: [knock knock] we've come for Bear
    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 50
    #4
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    Good write-up btw...thanks
    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 56
    #5
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    Modifié 26 mai 2021 à 21 h 8
    Quoting: HockeyFan989
    well my take is Holland is the best thing that happened since McDavid for the Oilers.... he really set the ship straight from the Chiarelli mess, their best years r ahead of them


    Care to explain how Draisaitl and McDavid winning back-to-back Hart trophies and Smith having a revelation as a 39 year-old counts as "setting the ship straight"?

    Most of what the Oilers had/have was here before Holland: the scouts are essentially the same so I don't even consider the Broberg-Lavoie draft to be of any credit to Holland except maybe Broberg > Zegras which is an undeniable loss any day of the week. All I've seen from Holland thus far is two flubbed deadlines (any quality owner would fire their GM if during a historic season they claimed that 'you can't go for it every year'; what the hell would you say your job is at that point?), an anchor contract in Kassian, and through this setup, a long-term issue with the salary cap.

    This roster is improved sure, but it's not the best it could be, and the organization as a whole is still 20 years+ behind most of the rest of the league by refusing to invest in anything except old hockey men. Holland refused to get creative with the salary cap this past offseason (I still don't know why wasn't there a Neal buyout last summer: the plan was to play him a year then cut him loose) and failed to address the bottom six when his bets in Kahun and Turris went sideways.

    Years burnt from Draisaitl and McDavid's primes are still years burnt regardless of who's in charge.
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    26 mai 2021 à 20 h 58
    #6
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    Quoting: SomeonesOffended
    Another year of mcdavid wasted lol I hope Holland doesn’t do that but you sound like you’re onto something


    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Good write-up btw...thanks


    I hate how predictable this organization is and how Holland can't help but tip his hand at every opportunity. I don't want to be right, I want to be blackout drunk on Whyte Ave celebrating at least ONE Stanley Cup win.

    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    New Jersey: [knock knock] we've come for Bear


    If you can beat that offer go for it. I just think Holland takes the first deal he gets that includes a top-64 pick.
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    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 0
    #7
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    Not a fan of getting Tatar to play with mcdavid there is a couple better options. Glendening is our only addition on that 4th line then we are going to have the same problem in the playoffs where your 4th line gets 10 minutes of ice time in a game where it goes to 3ots and Holland also isn’t a fan of rookies jumping right in so I doubt we see two rookies on a line this team needs veterans. And that d got worse Jones wasn’t good enough to play these playoffs but now he’s top 4 and after playoffs I’d be hesitant on driedger. I like the signing of Coleman I’d play him on mcdavids line before Tatar tho
    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 8
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    Quoting: Oilers21
    Not a fan of getting Tatar to play with mcdavid there is a couple better options. Glendening is our only addition on that 4th line then we are going to have the same problem in the playoffs where your 4th line gets 10 minutes of ice time in a game where it goes to 3ots and Holland also isn’t a fan of rookies jumping right in so I doubt we see two rookies on a line this team needs veterans. And that d got worse Jones wasn’t good enough to play these playoffs but now he’s top 4 and after playoffs I’d be hesitant on driedger. I like the signing of Coleman I’d play him on mcdavids line before Tatar tho


    I think most of this is more of an issue of Holland not being able to help himself. Stylistically, I don't think Tatar will be a fit with McDavid but Holland has both a bias towards former Red Wings AND pressure to add another top-six winger. It's a very unfortunate collision in this regard. I suspect Coleman eventually gets the bump up to McDavid's wing or Holloway will.

    I disagree regarding Jones to an extent: I think it's telling about how Tippett misused his roster in the playoffs for sure. He ran Jones-Larsson a lot in the regular season and I think there'll be some credit earned by Jones from both the coach and GM that he'll take another step this year. They can't trade everyone and Jones still represents a value contract (even if he's only a third-pairing defender, he's sub-$1M).

    Given the obvious mistake in not bringing Benson and/or Marody up this year to give Tippett some more useful options in his bottom-six, I don't think either Holland or Tippett will hesitate to play both Holloway and McLeod, and I don't think keeping them together will be an issue. Both kids are defensively responsible and Coleman is no slouch in his own end. Likewise, the organization thinks that Kassian is a bonafide #3RW: they'll think having him on the 4th line constitutes as depth. Tippett likes Archibald and Holland likes Glendenning. I think that's a very possible 4th line for us next year.
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    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 9
    #9
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    I really hope we dont resign Barrie he is awful on defence and is mainly just a pp quaterback, while we already have dman who could do the job
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    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 10
    #10
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    Quoting: Epiczzzz
    I really hope we dont resign Barrie he is awful on defence and is mainly just a pp quaterback, while we already have dman who could do the job


    I agree but I don't think Holland can help himself. He's on record of not liking/wanting substantial change. How does he convince himself to not resign one of the most productive defenders in the league if the club blatantly ignores anything resembling advanced analytics?
    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 16
    #11
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    Quoting: BeterChiarelli
    I think most of this is more of an issue of Holland not being able to help himself. Stylistically, I don't think Tatar will be a fit with McDavid but Holland has both a bias towards former Red Wings AND pressure to add another top-six winger. It's a very unfortunate collision in this regard. I suspect Coleman eventually gets the bump up to McDavid's wing or Holloway will.

    I disagree regarding Jones to an extent: I think it's telling about how Tippett misused his roster in the playoffs for sure. He ran Jones-Larsson a lot in the regular season and I think there'll be some credit earned by Jones from both the coach and GM that he'll take another step this year. They can't trade everyone and Jones still represents a value contract (even if he's only a third-pairing defender, he's sub-$1M).

    Given the obvious mistake in not bringing Benson and/or Marody up this year to give Tippett some more useful options in his bottom-six, I don't think either Holland or Tippett will hesitate to play both Holloway and McLeod, and I don't think keeping them together will be an issue. Both kids are defensively responsible and Coleman is no slouch in his own end. Likewise, the organization thinks that Kassian is a bonafide #3RW: they'll think having him on the 4th line constitutes as depth. Tippett likes Archibald and Holland likes Glendenning. I think that's a very possible 4th line for us next year.


    I 100% agree with you I don’t think Holland can help him self and I’m sure you are right that he will bring Tatar and glendening but that would be a mistake in my opinion they aren’t what this team needs if your gonna get a 4th line Centre try and get a guy like getzlaf. But I have to disagree with you on the Jones thing you are correct he played a lot with Larsson but he wasn’t the Jones of 2 years ago this year he was a defensive liability he could make outlet pass got caught in his end far to much I’d rather see a big body there like oleskiak to have shut down pair of him and Larsson.
    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 17
    #12
    wpg
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    Quoting: BeterChiarelli
    Care to explain how Draisaitl and McDavid winning back-to-back Hart trophies and Smith having a revelation as a 39 year-old counts as "setting the ship straight"?

    Most of what the Oilers had/have was here before Holland: the scouts are essentially the same so I don't even consider the Broberg-Lavoie draft to be of any credit to Holland except maybe Broberg > Zegras which is an undeniable loss any day of the week. All I've seen from Holland thus far is two flubbed deadlines (any quality owner would fire their AGM if during a historic season they claimed that 'you can't go for it every year'; what the hell would you say your job is at that point?), an anchor contract in Kassian, and through this setup, a long-term issue with the salary cap.

    This roster is improved sure, but it's not the best it could be, and the organization as a whole is still 20 years+ behind most of the rest of the league by refusing to invest in anything except old hockey men. Holland refused to get creative with the salary cap this past offseason (I still don't know why wasn't there a Neal buyout last summer: the plan was to play him a year then cut him loose) and failed to address the bottom six when his bets in Kahun and Turris went sideways.

    Years burnt from Draisaitl and McDavid's primes are still years burnt regardless of who's in charge.


    Oiler don't have the team.... Chiarelli ****ed that up, either way if ure getting through the Jets u rnt winning the cup anyways. GL winning against teams like Vegas or Tampa

    Yes u have the best player is the world but he can be shut down.. the Jets proved that

    i stand by my comment Holland is the best thing that happened since McDavid for the Oilers, someone who is willing to be patient, trust the process and build the Oilers onto a true contender
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    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 22
    #13
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    Quoting: Oilers21
    I 100% agree with you I don’t think Holland can help him self and I’m sure you are right that he will bring Tatar and glendening but that would be a mistake in my opinion they aren’t what this team needs if your gonna get a 4th line Centre try and get a guy like getzlaf. But I have to disagree with you on the Jones thing you are correct he played a lot with Larsson but he wasn’t the Jones of 2 years ago this year he was a defensive liability he could make outlet pass got caught in his end far to much I’d rather see a big body there like oleskiak to have shut down pair of him and Larsson.


    Oleksiak is 7 feet tall and nothing else. Whichever team signs him is going to regret him.

    That said, if my acknowledging that results in him being an Oiler, it's not my fault grimace
    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 26
    #14
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    Quoting: BeterChiarelli
    Oleksiak is 7 feet tall and nothing else. Whichever team signs him is going to regret him.

    That said, if my acknowledging that results in him being an Oiler, it's not my fault grimace


    He was coveted at the trade deadline he’s fairly quick for a big fella and plays mean also put up decent points if you sign him for 3mil or under I wouldn’t mind
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    26 mai 2021 à 21 h 30
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    Quoting: Oilers21
    He was coveted at the trade deadline he’s fairly quick for a big fella and plays mean also put up decent points if you sign him for 3mil or under I wouldn’t mind


    His rumoured ask is a $4M/4y deal. Knowing how these deals tend to break down, I'm staying away. The compromise - to me at least - smells like $3.5M/3y and that's about a million and a year too much for my tastes.

    Until Klefbom actually comes out and says it, the club is going to make moves anticipating his return sometime before the onset of the playoffs. I think the clubs is mostly confident in the group they had this year and if they want to address anything, they'll do so at the deadline if Oscar hasn't come back or retired by that point.
    26 mai 2021 à 22 h 47
    #16
    CbjSabresDucks
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    if he really isnt looking to make big changes he needs to go. you dont just have players of McDrai's calibers and play the waiting game
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    26 mai 2021 à 23 h 14
    #17
    wpg
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    Quoting: Bdawwwgy1
    if he really isnt looking to make big changes he needs to go. you dont just have players of McDrai's calibers and play the waiting game


    Chiarelli tried that... look were it got them
    26 mai 2021 à 23 h 24
    #18
    CbjSabresDucks
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    Quoting: HockeyFan989
    Chiarelli tried that... look were it got them



    chiarelli ws terrible.
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    26 mai 2021 à 23 h 51
    #19
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    Quoting: HockeyFan989
    Chiarelli tried that... look were it got them


    Chiarelli made big changes but didn't acquire anything of equal value to what he sent out. The Oilers need big changes but they need to win the trade/signing unambiguously. Key difference.
    27 mai 2021 à 0 h 25
    #20
    ural740811
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    Why aren't Marody and Skinner signed?
    27 mai 2021 à 0 h 46
    #21
    ural740811
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    Bear won't be given anywhere! I'm sure this is our future, despite his terrible pass at the end of the third period of the fourth game, the one who does nothing is not mistaken, this will serve him a useful lesson. Tippett and the Hollands appreciate him.
    27 mai 2021 à 0 h 47
    #22
    Hurricane Waddell
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    Why are you suspicious of Ken?
    27 mai 2021 à 1 h 8
    #23
    ural740811
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    Barrie will not be signed, I am sure, by the way, by the end of the season, Barrie himself realized that Edmonton's management was not counting on him for the next season and it was noticeable how the spark disappeared in his eyes, he would sign in another organization 6 million for 5 years.
    Conclusions from the press conference and some rumors:
    Smith 2 million for a year
    Larsson 3.5 million for 4 years
    Hopkins 6 million for 6 years
    Yamamoto 2 million for 2 years
    Dridger 3.5 million for 3 years
    Tatars 5 million for 2 years
    Glendenning 1.5 for 2 years
    Benson, Maraudi, Skinner, Shore 0.8 million
    Redemption of Neil and Koskinen
    27 mai 2021 à 1 h 10
    #24
    ural740811
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    Quoting: Caniac555
    Why are you suspicious of Ken?


    Ken Holland pelogin! :-)
    27 mai 2021 à 1 h 11
    #25
    ural740811
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    Quoting: ural740811
    Ken Holland pelogin! :-)


    Ken Holland perelogin! :-)
     
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