Easy no from CAR

Canes aren't trading Pesce and that's not enough even if they were open to the idea

Just out of the kindness of Don Waddell's heart?

Carolina fans think Pesce is worth the ****ing moon. This package looks about right but they'll say no because... I'm actually not totally sure why they think he's so good.

Not a Canes fan, Pesce is really, really good.

Well I want to believe it but his advanced stats are... lacking and he doesn't really look exceptional on the ice. Not to be rude but can I have a source on why everyone thinks he's so good, I genuinely want to know why.

Well I want to believe it but his advanced stats are... lacking and he doesn't really look exceptional on the ice. Not to be rude but can I have a source on why everyone thinks he's so good, I genuinely want to know why.

A source? Dude, its hockey. The source is hockey. Watch.

Cause if lots of people say hes really good then other people start to repeat it and everyone's saying how good he is but no one actually watches Carolina games (other than Canes fans who wouldn't trade any of their players for 4 firsts and McDavid)

Look at his RAPM from before 19-20, he was probably a top 10 RD in the league...

I'm a stats guy (data analysis is part of my profession) and stats are not everything. Pesce is a bit like Brodin. Neither are flashy players but they don't need to be, they're both incredible defenders. You just have to watch him for 5-10 games and maybe you'll start to understand.

u must be new here so i will tell u this pesce is worth way more than that.

2 way defenseman making 4mill thats a steal for alot of teams.

Before 19-20. This year his xGa and shot suppression were both ass.

I mean they were like average lol, plus 1 down year is definitely not indicative of how good a player is lol

Like a three year sample (even weighted) he's still probably a top ~15 RHD

But his advanced stats did suck this year at least. His xGa TM REL and Shot suppression were way worse then they should've been given what team he was playing on. I've watched a few canes games and he seems all-around solid but really not exceptional. In the Ayres game I saw he gave up a few bad turnovers and made some blunders. I'm sorry but I just don't see it.

Doesn’t play for the Leafs so clearly not that good.

That's because you're scouting with stats only. Stats lack context. Just watch the guy, he's a great hockey player

How can you be worth Nylander apparently when you have the advanced stats of Cody Ceci? Nylander IS flashy, he makes the good plays, he was on track for 40 goals this year and seemed to dominate play while Pesce was... meh. He had decent positioning but clearly not that good when you look at his shot suppresion and QoC/QoT. Call me a skeptic but I don't buy it.

You can throw all the stats you want at me but my argument remains: just watch him. He's good.

Also being flashy doesn't necessarily mean you're a good player. Jonathon Drouin plays a very flashy game but he's at best a 2nd liner.

Trade value is a whole different argument. I've always been a massive fan of Nylander. I don't think the Leafs should trade him at all unless it's a big overpayment.

I probably watched 15-20 Canes games this year as I had Turbo and Dougie on my fantasy team and Pesce was decent but nothing unbelievable. He never jumped out as the best player on the ice in the slightest and still had his occasional defensive breakdowns and poor zone exits. He's an above average defender but thats about all as he doesn't contribute a whole lot to the offense. I could name quite a few defensemen I'd rather have as my teams defensive dman, I just don't see his huge value. I can understand why Canes fans don't want to move him for less than an overpayment but I definitely wouldn't say hes really really good

I disagree, but that's your opinion and you're entitled to that. I think he's a great player. Would I trade Nylander for him? No.

I'd rather have a team of MCoun, Gill, Mironov, Ellett, Rouse, Lebrevre and a HOF coach named Burns.

Nylander, Bracco for Pesce, Geekie and an exchange of picks.

In this ACGM, if Leafs swapped Johnsson with Kapanen, and switched the Canes pick to maybe a 4th/5th I'd say its a fair deal

The truth is probably somewhere between bots sides of the debate. Pesce is fine, but the offer on the table is more than generous. Case closed.

I don't think the Canes take that. I think any team that wants Pesce is going to overpay and for the Leafs that probably means the ask is Nylander. Like I said, I wouldn't make that trade if I'm Dubas.