And even if he is overrated and overpaid, it's money that New Jersey has to spend right now and he's a substantial upgrade to their current defense. It gives them Subban, Severson and Vatanen on the right side for next year, with Vatanen most likely walking. Plus they have Butcher on the left and Ty Smith coming soon. It's a slick move by the Devils to drastically improve their team, both now and in the future

He was nominated for the Norris as the 3rd best defender on Nashville. He puts up points (Norris is highest point defensemen 99% of the time). That doesn't mean he is good.

Completely not true. And lmao that’s not the case at all. If Norris meant points, why wasn’t rielly nominated? Why didn’t burns win? John Carlsson wasn’t nominated but hedman was. Erik Gustafson didn’t even get a single Norris vote!!! You’re blinded by your hate for Subban to see how great of a player he really is. I’m very excited for him. New Jersey just added two franchise changing players in a span of 24 hours.

The trade will completed this summer. 9m Subban for those 1.4m Santini and three futures. It's how Preds spend that 7.6m cap diff between Subban and Santini that will make the trade good or bad. My opinion....Preds win the on ice value.
Jersey...need some splash in their market so they got Subban. Maybe having Subban and his flair on/off the ice will take some scrutiny away from young Hughes. Who knows in a couple of year if Subban is playing well and Devils are not in playoff run, they trade Subban for a first... somewhat equalizing what they gave up for him.

The guy with the 2nd most points won the Norris. The two other finalists were the highest point producing defender and the highest point defender on the best team in Modern NHL History. It's about points. Why would a 60 PT defensemen get a nomination?

You will see soon enough just how "good" Subban is. Come back to this in December and mock me if I am wrong, I will be back here in December just to remind you.

I guess you missed my first statement of my comment.
I guess i was asleep when O'Reilly led the Sabres to the Stanley cup,
I guess I was asleep when O'Reilly led the Sabres to the playoffs,
I guess I was asleep when O'Reilly led the Sabres to a winning team.
The Sabres were in last place with him, they can be in last place without him.
I never saw him play in Buffalo the way he played the last 4 games i the playoffs. If he performed as well in Buffalo, I would have been the first one to cry about the trade.
TBH, Murray destroyed the defense, destroyed the depth, destroyed the prospects, had no middle six at all. made terrible trades and built a team that finished out of the play offs every year O'Reilly was in Buffalo. So while
I acknowledge O'Reilly played very well again, he just did not do it in Buffalo and as the Captain he should have been the leader and not the quitter, I was happy to see a quitter get traded yes.


You are correct about the big improvement during the 10 game period, but IMO there were other factors that led to the collapse. I have my thoughts on them but because I cannot corroborate them they are unfounded.
Now you want to eliminate the 10 game winning streak, how about I eliminate the 19 games from February 25th to April 2nd in which the team was shut out 5 times and only won 2 games and say the Sabres would have had a winning season (equal to 92 pts) with out that stretch, would that be fair? Of course not. But what is fair is to remind every one that February 23 Skinner injured his knee while playing against the Capitals and he went into a huge scoring slump and only scored 2 goals during that 19 game stretch. We really do not know how badly he injured his knee, but I know he stopped scoring after it. I can also say, that I noticed a huge change in his performance and attitude after the injury.
Eichel played much better this year (his pts/gm increased), actually getting involved in the defensive zone (his +/- decreased), did O'Reilly bring him down?
I never doubted that O'Reilly is a very talented player, but why did Colorado also choose to move him before Duchene? We can only guess.

Yes, you are correct about Subban it is different, and that was the primary purpose of my comment to point out that players who are locker room problems play for loosing teams, Subban's teams make the playoffs, I do not think he is a locker room problem, he elevates his game during the playoffs, and seems to be a good role model off of the ice.
O'Reilly is extremely talented, but he never did it for Buffalo and only made the playoffs twice in Colorado, I felt he was selfish and played for his glory and not the teams.

I can only hope that Skinner can remain healthy next season, Dahlin improves, Blase can help the GK, and Eichel breaks 100 pts. Then we can talk about O'Reilly. OK I am done with my rant, I am sorry that I actually watch the games and notice when players are not participating.

Edit, let me add, it is a pleasure discussing this with you both. I know I am taking on a very unpopular position and neither of you have insulted my intelligence nor my points.I hope to engage you both in the future. I guess, I cannot forget that as the Captain of the team he gave up. he may have been sick of losing but the captain is suppose to make a team better not give up. Again thank you both for an intelligent conversation.

Lmao no it’s not. Hedman only had around 50 points. If it was all about points, Carlson, Rielly, etc would’ve been nominated over him. Points are a factor but it’s not all about points. I never said Gus should get a nomination, but he didn’t get a single vote and had 60 points. Jake muzzin even got a vote!!! I will remember this post though. Subban is a beast, he had a bad year. It happens. Nashville is gonna regret this trade.

Like you said, ORielly had very little supporting cast. I can’t comment based on what happened between him and management, but I can guarantee you if ORielly was on sabres this last year, sabres would’ve made a playoff push and St. Louis would’ve missed. He’s a hell of a player. He’s not good enough to carry a team but he’s a great supporting peice

Let's agree that O'Reilly is a very good player.
81, 78, 62 the points the Sabres had while O'Reilly was on the team. 76 the first year he is not a Sabre.
On February 23rd the Sabres have 66 pts in 61 games and Skinner has 35 goals. Jeff is hurt that night in game against the Capitals.
The Sabres win 4 more games and Skinner scores 5 more goals.
TBH, it is more likely that the Sabres remain in the hunt if Skinner is healthy than if O'Reilly was in the line up. I can say this because, Eichel started to play much better once O'Reilly left and the Sabres never had a winning season while O'Reilly was a Sabre.
I can say with 100% confidence that O'Reilly never played for Buffalo the way he played the last 4 games of the Stanley cup, if he had, I would be the first to want Betterall fired.
Let me add that Betterall did really well with getting a first, second and Thompson considering Hoffman returned only Mikkel Boedker to the Senators,
Let me conclude, if we like to speculate, if Binnington does perform as well as he did (25-5-1), our conversation would be about why the Blues are out of the playoffs after adding Perron, Bozak and O'Reilly.

Jesus, reading these comments I didn't realize PK Subban all of a sudden became a bottom-pairing defenseman after one down season.

NHL Fans: WE NEED MORE PLAYERS TO SHOW THEIR PERSONALITIES

PK Subban shows personality

NHL Fans: WOW NOT LIKE THAT WHAT A LOCKER ROOM CANCER

Eichal started to play better “once ORielly left” because he was a year older, stronger, and smarter. Not because ORielly left the team. ORielly would’ve helped your team tremendously. There’s a lot of pieces that came into play on why sabres had more sucesss without ORielly than with ORielly. The main one is the additional of dahlin and an extra year of development for Reinhart, eichal, etc...

Best sport, worst leauge

Well, you sure were right about Brink! And Kaliyev went only one slot earlier.

Except Nashville traded back and Philly took Brink with that pick. But Nashville still got Afanasyev, who I'm fairly high on.

I noticed that it was Philadelphia, not Nashville, that drafted Brink. I was admiring your ability to judge the value of draft prospects.

I guess all those who doubted me when said Montreal won trading away Subban for WEber can mock me again . Subban I guess hurt himself being w/ Vonn in a place like Nashville for her anti American views and stuff? I can't wait to see him interviewed by Erika or that other dude the former Devils Captain Bryce Salavador or even DAneyko . Devils having the benefit of the rigged redistribution lottery to draft 1st 2/3 years while Kings have never had the 1st overall pick shows how rigged NHL Is... NOw they are handed Subban to go with Jack HUghes to get them into playoffs or beyond ? Subban will help them market the team better then the others on team so its a really good move for their PR and bottom line... Nashville frees up 9M which is really the most you can afford to pay a player w/ a cap hit of 81.5M... Nobody paid 10M or more is winning anything, Kane, Toews, Price, Kopitar, Krap Karl... For a right shot D-man who can score in bunches its really the move Devils needed... They already got a right shot D-man to help from Ducks so this will complete the set . Rangers got better right shot D-man/player in Trouba though and Kakko in draft so good luck Jersey fans . Islanders only team I like at all in East where would buy championship gear... Devils are probably like a Grand Canyon away second, Kings my favorite so only got the gear of them getting beat hahah . Which I like a lot more than the crappy Rangers logo/team... Though I love they don't have a mascot, Flyers added that Gritty haha .

Great thread to look back on. Glad I wasn't around because I definitely would've been on the "New Jersey won" side of this trade.

These comments aged well...

It's crazy how some people value players stats from 3-4 years ago. Subban was not good when this trade was made

To be fair, at the time, I would have thought this was a trade in NJ's favour, but yikes, not anymore. I see this now.

If you watched him in his final season with Nashville, you would've known that Subban was being boosted by Nashville, not the other way around. His game plummeted in that final season.