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Gretzky and Celebrini

Créé par: Billy316
Équipe: 2024-25 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 20 mai 2024
Publié: 4 juin 2024
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
3 first round picks have been traded 1 time for Gretzky and no one else.
Given MTLs rate of development and that Carey Price's replacement is still in the NCAA
I'd say you're looking at 5th OA ,anywhere from 7th-11th and 13th-17th the next year and a later pick for the final year.

That said thats me optimistically thinking Celebrini/Hutson chemistry helps us progress.
But MTL is selling , we are often injured and we have two 1B goalies if you like them or 1B & and a back up if you're less confident.

We got a rebuilding Defense with many moving pieces to factor in too
If Matheson stays eating up all the youth's minutes with anywhere from 25-32 minutes a night
Then i think MTL will be tanking until he's gone as we'll have stunted our youth core deeply.
So moving him out in the deal makes some sense

They could turn out to be 1 later pick and 2 top 10 picks
That really depends on our GM and how much more of this 10 D for 6 spots and 3 goalie rotation BS he imposes on the team in the future. I tell myself it was a tanking method but he's an inexperienced GM and there's no evidence to back that just Faith more or less.

In that event our GM doesnt learn to sell off assets to let the ones we're keeping grow.
The picks could be 5th OA, 3rd-7th and 5th-9th easily but thats still no Cellerbrini at 1st OA
But with a 5th OA guaranteed and Matheson on top of two unprotected 1st its a Gretzky level payout and would be one of the biggest single trades in history


SJS would also give up their 2nd round pick in the deal which is effectively a late 1st as the 1st pick in the 2nd round for MTL's 2nd next year

MTL drafts Celebrini 1st OA, 14th OA and take Iginla, Eiserman or Helenius who are all ranked from top 10 in the 6th-10th ranger until the late teens in rankings as seen on their Elite Prospects profiles.

I believe its unlikely CGY pass on TIJ unless something like Silayev going 2nd OA like Bob McKenzie predicts with Demidov falling to 6th OA then this created a world where CGY is looking at a at least 1 of Demidov Buium , Levshunov,Dickinson, Lindstrom or Catton still being available. All are better then Tij with good finishes to big years for some of them like Buium and Dickinson who we're in Finals this year with 1 winning their post playoffs national tournament

Im not sure he gets by PHI though so i'd guess we'll be selecting Michael Brandsegg-Nygard as i also believe Eiserman will be gone leaving Helenius and MBN. MTL has already expressed interest in MBN at 26th with the WPG pick so given whats likely left unless more then 5 D go before our pick then MBN is the best player available

Celebrini joins MTL this year and MBN will in 2-3 years time
33rd OA is a Mystery because who knows who will spill over into round 2 ?
If its a Forward im hoping for is a Ryder Ritchie or Dean Letorneau the 6'7 Bilingual Center playing in USA system to give him time to adjust to his growth spurt and grow his muscle mass. He'll be playing infront of Cam Fowler in Boston College which is MTL's Heir Apparent to Career Price Role long term.(and a top NCAA Goalie himself)

If Defense i want Cole Hutson or Charlie Elick to fall into our laps.
No Goalies worth grabbing this early either.

MTL also drafts Miroslav Satan Jr in the 4th round if NJD didnt grab him a round or two early like we were thinking. He's a 6'7 Slovak who isnt really a stand out per say but skates well for his size and uses his body fully and Goalies hate it lol. Just trying to Collect Slafkovsky a buddy to summer train with back home who could challenge him to become stronger and better.


Lots to say about all this im sure
Before anyone says "its an overpay, i know.. its the point"
Cellebrini beside Roy -Dach behind Caufield-Suzuki-Slaf is a great set up.
Armia-Newhook-Gally combined for 25 pts in 9 games together to end the year
We were playing teams still fighting to get playoff position or in DET case in the playoffs.
It wasnt until the 3rd period of the last game DET knew they were eliminated Win or Loss.
My point is that they'll make a fine 3rd line over Evans who's 4th line could become great and he could find a way to get Anderson going with Pezz there always chirping him and Evans who's sound defensively giving Anderson a lot of room to use his speed/size to bully bottom 6 guys.

As UFA's leave or get sold at the TDL(which is another can of worms for another day)
So youth like Mesar, Beck, Kapanen, F.Xhekaj, Tuch among others will likely be called upon.
2/5 probably should be in the NHL but are Waiver Exempt so they can wait until TDL.
2/5 need a year in Laval but after that will be knocking on the door for someones spot.
1/5 probably needs a few years and some structure unless living close to Slaf boosts him somehow.

Total Yield SJS
-5th OA
-26th OA
-30th OA
-57th OA
-2025 unprotected 1st
-2026 unprotected 1st
-Matheson(4.8m x 2 years)
-Captain Konyuskov 21 year old RD Rights(A- rating i'd say)
-Miller 19 year old Goalie(B+ rating i'd say)
-Kidney 21 year old Center (A- or B+ he's grey area i'd say leaning towards A-)

MTL Yield
-1st OA Celebrini
-14th OA Michael Brandsegg-Nygard
-33rd OA Who knows hopefully Ritchie


TDL moves will rebound us some draft capital back in future drafts
All our picks still fit our timeline and current group of prospects turned Pro has 2 years before next waive starts turning Pro.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
43 850 000 $
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Cellebrin, Macklin
3950 000 $
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (SJS)
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (SJS)
Détails additionnels:
-1st OA (Celebrini)

-33rd OA(given the cost swapping 2nd gives MTL is needed as we wont have much in quality picks again for years)
SJS
  1. Matheson, Michael
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (MTL)
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (COL)
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2025 (MTL)
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2026 (MTL)
Détails additionnels:
-5th OA(Drafts Quality and could get Demidov or Levshunov)

-Unprotected 1st in 2025

-Unprotected 1st in 2026

- 57th OA pick

-60pts Dman playing top 5 NHL minutes on a 4.8 x2m contract that SJS can RS on and flip for additional profit to a contender or play then flip before he's a pending UFA to increase return size in most cases.
2.
MTL
  1. Julien, Jacob [Liste de réserve]
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (MTL)
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2025 (WPG)
Détails additionnels:
-Junior Power forward drafted 5th round who just had a great year in a great system with 1 more year to go. Keep in Mind Mike Mccarron did everything he did and Won the title after being taken in the first round. Big Guys take time and while JJ is a slightly better goal scorer at that point and a better playmaker for sure he isnt a Champion like McCarron was who matched his production with 9 goals and 9 assists

Im not Taking Julien cause im starstruck after a Great memorial cup battle. He's big , in a good system and unlike McCarron he'll entre MTL at a time when Prospects are promoted from Laval to MTL as UFA's leave. He simply fits our time and GM's stated needs. I value Heineman over JJ but the timing leaves us no space for Heineman so we gotta take a loss in the trade off as its Heinemans last year on his ELC anyways

-37th OA

-3rd round pick in 2025 (WPG)
WPG
  1. Barron, Justin [Droits de RFA]
  2. Heineman, Emil
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (MTL)
  4. Choix de 3e ronde en 2024 (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
-former 1st round pick who's streaky but good. He wasnt the only MTL D to take a tour in Laval , such is life in a Log Jam as seen with Logan Stanley in his early days.

-Heineman is great at the NHL, decent at the NHL but hasnt found a way to transition his offensive game to the NHL yet. he's 22 still in the last year of his ELC so he's on pace with developmental projections from 2020 when he was drafted. Right now at the NHL level he's good for a Defensive Checking Forward a la Lehkonen 2013-2019 type guy needing help to get over that hump with his offense in the NHL.

-70th OA

-78th OA
3.
MTL
  1. Trouba, Jacob
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (NYR)
Détails additionnels:
-Trouba 8m for Savard 3.5m giving Trouba a landing spot he'd waive for to rejoin Jeff Gorton. He'll help youth stay healthy as he eats up a lot of shot blocks and lays out a ton of hits without chewing up the minutes Matheson does to do it. He's an ideal guy to lead the youth forward and we might even re-sign him at the right Price.

-30th OA to take Trouba
NYR
  1. Savard, David
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (MTL)
Détails additionnels:
-Savard is a pending UFA allowing NYR to dump a year of term fully at 8m and 4.5m partially unless they trade Savard to another team.

-37th OA
4.
MTL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (PIT)
Détails additionnels:
-14th OA pick via PIT

SJS in 2 trades comes out with a lot of assets but none that will disrupt their build time line letting them be seller for the up coming season offloading the rest of their contract except Couture for another 3 and Vlasic for another 2 with a few smaller contract. Outside that it'll be most 25 and under with tons of room to sign the UFA's they want

SJS walks away with 5th,25th,30th, 57th picks this year and 2 unprotected MTL picks the next 2 years. Matheson ,Miller ,Kidney and Kovyuskov as well with the ability to land at least another 1st round pick off Matheson as early as next year if desire.

This was done over 2 separate trades as thats what they are but the desired goal is to make SJS look at the day end total and what they gave vs what they got and feel happy. Yes they gave up Celebrini and a 14th OA and 33rd OA but got triple the return back as the 2nd trade is meant to make them feel the love and is a clear over pay.

SJS will get lots of good players out of this long term.
MTL long term gets to keep Celebrini-Hutson together
SJS
  1. Kidney, Riley
  2. Konyushkov, Bogdan [Liste de réserve]
  3. Miller, Quentin [Liste de réserve]
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (WPG)
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (NYR)
Détails additionnels:
-26th OA

-30th OA

- 21 year old 3rd year Pro Right handed RD playing 23+ minutes a night as his teams Captain while mentoring top 10 prospect Anton Silayev the 6'7 Russian. He's 6 foot and plays a good overall game at both ends but playing on smaller ice will 100% benefit his game in the NHL's more fast paced environment. I'd gladly swap out for Harris, Struble or a number of LD but he's the best RD we got that we'd part with now that Barrons been moved to WPG in the trade above.

-Miller won a Memorial cup last year and a League title with Patrick Roy but this year was traded and transitioned into a Starting Role before his final season this up coming year. He ended with 10-4-0 with 2.60GAA and .917 SV% it was a good test as once Roy left for the NHL playing Back up for his team knowing you'd learn a lot from him has less appeal with him gone. MTL likes him but Fowler and the Russian goalie we took the same year are over performing at the top of their leagues and i dont see a way Miller contends for a spot here anytime in the future. Its a shame i thought he was pretty nifty and makes some weird be sorta catchy music. Moving to SJS might help him expand his musical skills

-Kidney's 1st year pro was rough as he was in a crowded system and didnt get the chance to play like Davidson and Mesar until November almost as Lavals injuries piled up. He left Junior on the highest of highs but at Pro Level he had 20pts in 60 some games and earned the coaches trust defensively but wasnt used outside that role as a rookie. I expect he'll come into camp rested and hungry,
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
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2024
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2025
Logo de CGY
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Logo de PIT
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Logo de NJD
Logo de VAN
Logo de WPG
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Logo de DET
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2387 700 000 $74 221 250 $1 022 500 $4 670 000 $13 478 750 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
7 850 000 $7 850 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 7
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
7 875 000 $7 875 000 $
C
UFA - 6
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance3 500 000 $$4M)
AD, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
835 000 $835 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Cellebrin, Macklin
950 000 $950 000 $
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 362 500 $3 362 500 $
C, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
2 900 000 $2 900 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
812 500 $812 500 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 700 000 $1 700 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
4 450 000 $4 450 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance750 000 $$750K)
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de Rangers de New York
8 000 000 $8 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 150 000 $3 150 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance420 000 $$420K)
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
766 667 $766 667 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
890 000 $890 000 $
G
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 850 000 $3 850 000 $
DG/DD
RFA
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
875 000 $875 000 $
DD
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 2

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4 juin à 10 h 51
#1
Bad Take Bot v1.02
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San Jose still says NO
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4 juin à 10 h 54
#2
Démarrer sujet
Jesus Christ Is King
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Purpose of said trades werent to move up the timeline but to fit within it.
Celebrini just reinforces what we had pushing Dach to Wing strengthening us there by proxy.
MBN will be a fun add when he's ready as he hits everything all the time and is aggressive as heck, i love it(kinda like Yamerchuk does or Elick )
But adding him changes nothing timeline wise.

Unless our Goalie Tandem stands out with Trouba anchoring our Defense and blocking a Ton of shots.
Then odds are SJS is looking at multiple top 10 picks but while they may get a player as good as Celebrini or better on paper lets say just to play devils advocate.
The Value of Keeping Celebrini and Hutson together in my opinion is still worth the cost
4 juin à 10 h 56
#3
Démarrer sujet
Jesus Christ Is King
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Quoting: Klara
San Jose still says NO


Alright new approach
How much to not take Celebrini then?
or is this a scenario where i couldnt make a trade in the world that would make you trade the pick?
4 juin à 10 h 58
#4
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Sorry but the Sharks aren’t trading the Celebrini pick.
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4 juin à 11 h 3
#5
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Quoting: Billy316
Alright new approach
How much to not take Celebrini then?
or is this a scenario where i couldnt make a trade in the world that would make you trade the pick?


We’ve had this conversation with Montreal fans before. The combination of assets the Canadiens would have to send the Sharks would have to be so absurd that the Canadiens would not actually be interested in a deal. It’s not happening. Montreal as well as most of the league lacks the young high end piece still on his ELC that would be required in a trade for the pick. Think guys like Bedard, Carlsson, Fantilli, Faber.
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4 juin à 11 h 8
#6
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Would take a WILD overpay for the sharks to even consider trading Celebrini and most likely still pass
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4 juin à 11 h 10
#7
Tank it baby
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No ****ing way are Sharks trading Celebrini.

I don't care how many Leo Tolstoy novels you write.
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4 juin à 11 h 12
#8
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Bro typed all dat just to still get cooked in the comments
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4 juin à 11 h 14
#9
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Quoting: Billy316
Alright new approach
How much to not take Celebrini then?
or is this a scenario where i couldnt make a trade in the world that would make you trade the pick?


There isn’t one. You don’t trade the chance to select a potentially franchise changing player for anything

San Jose needs that kind of player not a few really good players
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4 juin à 11 h 19
#10
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Easy no for Winnipeg. Barron requires waivers this year and isn't good enough to crack a terrible defense in Montreal, so he obviously isn't going to get near the starting 6 on the best defensive team in the league.

So Winnipeg isn't giving up a high 2nd to get a player that will be lost on waivers since he won't make the Jets anyways. They can just claim him when Montreal waives him if they want. Heinemen does nothing for Winnipeg.
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4 juin à 11 h 20
#11
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SJS is going to take Celebrini since he's easily the BPA and he fills a need in a prime position and as tempting as those 1sts may or may not be they don't know who they'll get with them. SJ passed on Michkov, so they probably don't have much interest in Demidov and there's no guarantee that him or Levshunov will even drop to them, and even if they do get them they'll have to wait for them. Matheson doesn't fit their timeline.

Make it more interesting and make it Slavkovsky + 5th OV for 1st OV + 33nd OV + (doubt SJ has anything that MTL wants that they would give up)
4 juin à 11 h 27
#12
KFC
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0 reason for wpg to do that lol Harris is not that guy, please stop
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4 juin à 11 h 34
#13
Soggy
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Trouba wouldn't waive for anywhere in Canada, he specifically got out of Winnipeg to be in the USA for his wife's medical career.

Take that out though and the Rangers trade isn't that bad, although the point of getting rid of Trouba for the Rangers would mostly be as a cap dump, so taking back Savard does give them some savings, but not enough to make this worth it. If you want Trouba you can have him but take out Savard from this trade, if you're worried about the cap Rangers can retain 2m and can you give a 3rd or something.
4 juin à 11 h 35
#14
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I don't think there is a universe where the Sharks trade that pick but man that is one hell of an offer. Also San Jose can't retain on another contract so retaining and trading Matheson like that wouldn't be possible.
Winnipeg trade might have some merit. Hard to say how they would feel about it.
The problem with Trouba trade is he likely has all of Canada on his no trade list. Also, his wife is a doctor in New York, I'm not totally sure if she finished schooling or not yet, but that's a big part of the reason he wanted to go there.
Also still think the Sharks keep #14. They are going to have alot of quantity soon enough and need more quality.
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4 juin à 11 h 38
#15
MisstheWhalers
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All this work to come up with such awful proposals, all teams decline quickly and abruptly.
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4 juin à 11 h 40
#16
Bcarlo25
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Quoting: Billy316
Alright new approach
How much to not take Celebrini then?
or is this a scenario where i couldnt make a trade in the world that would make you trade the pick?


It would likely have to be some combination of the picks you've given, and major pieces off montreal's roster. Suzuki or Slaf. Aside from the hockey side of things, you've gotta understand that economics are at play. NHL teams likely have models indicating how much a superstar makes them. a bunch of decent first round picks isn't going to hold a candle to that.
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4 juin à 12 h 5
#17
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Three 1st round picks were exchanged were for

-- Mikael Renberg in 1997 (actually, it was four 1sts)
-- Glen Wesley in 1994
-- Scott Stevens in 1990 (compensation for signing)


Lindros got two 1sts and Philadelphia two recent 1st round selections (Forsberg and Ricci...both top-10). That is probably the comp to use.

2024 MTL 1st (#5)
2025 MTL 1st
Slafkovsky
Reinbacher
Matheson
Harris
Monty
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4 juin à 12 h 20
#18
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All that long writing and explanation to make a stupid dumb trade that makes no sense for San Jose
4 juin à 12 h 23
#19
RecycleShark
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Quoting: GMBL
SJS is going to take Celebrini since he's easily the BPA and he fills a need in a prime position and as tempting as those 1sts may or may not be they don't know who they'll get with them. SJ passed on Michkov, so they probably don't have much interest in Demidov and there's no guarantee that him or Levshunov will even drop to them, and even if they do get them they'll have to wait for them. Matheson doesn't fit their timeline.

Make it more interesting and make it Slavkovsky + 5th OV for 1st OV + 33nd OV + (doubt SJ has anything that MTL wants that they would give up)


Add Reinbacher there. And still no. Celebrini is a Shark.
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4 juin à 12 h 40
#20
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Quoting: RecycleShark
Add Reinbacher there. And still no. Celebrini is a Shark.


I don't disagree, but I'm just trying to come up with something that the Sharks would consider a compelling offer, Slavkovsky + Reinbacher + 5th OV would certainly be that but I don't think they would do it still (of course MTL doesn't offer that either probably).
4 juin à 12 h 45
#21
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Do you understand the amount of overpay that San Jose would need to give up that first? it starts with Slavkovsky and Reinbacher and the 5oa which MTL would obviously not do
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4 juin à 12 h 47
#22
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Modifié 4 juin à 13 h 2
Quoting: NHLfan10506
Three 1st round picks were exchanged were for

-- Mikael Renberg in 1997 (actually, it was four 1sts)
-- Glen Wesley in 1994
-- Scott Stevens in 1990 (compensation for signing)


Lindros got two 1sts and Philadelphia two recent 1st round selections (Forsberg and Ricci...both top-10). That is probably the comp to use.

2024 MTL 1st (#5)
2025 MTL 1st
Slafkovsky
Reinbacher
Matheson
Harris
Monty


Don't think Celebrini is as a good as Lindros or at least wouldn't be as sought considering Lindros' size and skill, so could probably add the 14th and 33rd OV to the other side along with the 1st OV. Maybe remove Matheson since he doesn't really do anything for SJ either. Slavkovsky being the 1st overall selection ( I think he was consensus top 2 going into the draft) vs Ricci 4th and Forsberg 6th must mean something as well, so drop MTL's 2025 1st perhaps as well.

Bedard, Matthews, and McDavid would have gotten Lindros returns or greater, but I think Celebrini is more like Jack Hughes or Lafreniere.
Billy316 a aimé ceci.
4 juin à 13 h 15
#23
Lenny7
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Three 1st round picks were exchanged were for

-- Mikael Renberg in 1997 (actually, it was four 1sts)
-- Glen Wesley in 1994
-- Scott Stevens in 1990 (compensation for signing)


Lindros got two 1sts and Philadelphia two recent 1st round selections (Forsberg and Ricci...both top-10). That is probably the comp to use.

2024 MTL 1st (#5)
2025 MTL 1st
Slafkovsky
Reinbacher
Matheson
Harris
Monty


Um, excuse me sir, I'd like to allow the Habster lather to continue by offering up the 1OA comp from '99, in which Vancouver traded #4OA (Pavel Brendl...) + #75 (Brett Scheffelmaier) + #88 (Jimmie Olvestad) for 1 OA...

Oh wait...I see why this doesn't happen anymore...
GMBL, GeneralLandro et NHLfan10506 a aimé ceci.
4 juin à 13 h 29
#24
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Quoting: Lenny7
Um, excuse me sir, I'd like to allow the Habster lather to continue by offering up the 1OA comp from '99, in which Vancouver traded #4OA (Pavel Brendl...) + #75 (Brett Scheffelmaier) + #88 (Jimmie Olvestad) for 1 OA...

Oh wait...I see why this doesn't happen anymore...


LENNY!!!!! WHATS UP BROTHER!
Lenny7 a aimé ceci.
4 juin à 14 h 12
#25
Lenny7
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Quoting: GeneralLandro
LENNY!!!!! WHATS UP BROTHER!


Living the dream! Laptop died and it was a welcome respite from this place tears of joy Time to start looking forward to our beloved Duckos drafting Cayden Lindstrom I suppose...Would love some Demidov, but something tells me Pat is going to reach a bit.
 
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