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Boston would probably accept that offer this offseason

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2 janv. à 10 h 40

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That’s two yeses from Boston fans! Think there’s something to this for sure. It seems possibly overly generous but that usually means it’s closer to being fair than whatever is usually posted here. I think the Devils are going to be in a tricky spot with Luke’s number coming in so high and it will be harder and harder for us to fill out our bottom 6

2 janv. à 10 h 50

pretzelcoatl

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Awful, awful value for the Devils

2 janv. à 11 h 7

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Quoting: pretzelcoatl

Awful, awful value for the Devils

Would it be better value if NJD didn't retain on Vitek?

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2 janv. à 11 h 12

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I don't really see how it's that awful of value. Holtz is being pushed out of our top 6 anyway by the guys we currently have signed/prioritized here. We make a massive improvement in goal, and don't even give up a first round pick to do so.

Holtz has been one of our worst forward this year by most advanced metrics. You can blame his linemates all you want (I don't think playing with Bastian or Tierney has particularly helped him) but he hasn't clearly shown he deserves a top 6 role either.

I think this is by far a better plan than trading for Jake Allen (not an improvement) or John Gibson (albatross contract that still for some reason everyone agrees will cost us a 1st round pick to take).

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2 janv. à 11 h 14

pretzelcoatl

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Quoting: BruinsWoahWoah

Would it be better value if NJD didn't retain on Vitek?

No it's Holtz. He shouldn't be in a trade for a rental goalie.

2 janv. à 11 h 15

pretzelcoatl

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Quoting: TGSCraig

Your assessment of Holtz is way off. He should not be traded for Ullmark.

2 janv. à 11 h 22

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https://imgur.com/a/mEQS4jS

Alex Holtz isn't good. I shouldn't have to keep saying this.

2 janv. à 11 h 26

#10

I Love J Boqvist

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Quoting: TGSCraig

https://imgur.com/a/mEQS4jS

Alex Holtz isn't good. I shouldn't have to keep saying this.

Regardless of how you view holtz, his value is higher than Ullmark alone

2 janv. à 11 h 31

#11

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Quoting: dgibb10

Regardless of how you view holtz, his value is higher than Ullmark alone

In what world is a disappointing former 1st rounder who can't crack the top 6 more valuable than the reigning Vezina winner to a team that is currently a goalie away from a Stanley Cup?

It's fair to argue that Ullmark with only 1 year left is a bit worrisome, but that's the only reason he's even possibly on the block. Goalies this good don't usually shake loose, as we've discovered from the months of speculation now about the Devils trading for middling ones.

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2 janv. à 11 h 31

#12

Quaider11

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I’m bullish on Holtz especially with a change of scenery

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2 janv. à 11 h 36

#13

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Quoting: TGSCraig

The last reigning vezina winner traded went for a 2nd round pick. Ullmark at 5 mill for 1 year tops out at a 1st

Holtz’ trade value is simply higher that that.

2 janv. à 11 h 39

#14

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Quoting: dgibb10

The last reigning vezina winner traded went for a 2nd round pick. Ullmark at 5 mill for 1 year tops out at a 1st

Holtz’ trade value is simply higher that that.

You're not getting a 1st if you traded Holtz on his own. I think of this as essentially two 2nd round picks. They won't have the cap to sign Holtz to the extension he's due in 2025 anyway. May as well sell while he still has some name recognition now and people can dream on a change of scenery, instead of in a year+ when he remains on our 3rd/4th line and scoring 25 points.

2 janv. à 11 h 49

#15

Celtics21

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The deal itself makes some sense in terms of the base. I think you could argue that with the second round pick added to Holtz, the Devils shouldn’t be retaining on Vanacek. That would probably be the thing that pushes me to trade him elsewhere, so it’s a positive that it was removed from the discussion,

I’m OK with Vanacek at this number in this deal, though my assumption is he’s buried in Providence as long as Bussi starts gaining the consistency he showed last year. In this case, it minimizes the cap hit to $700k.

1. Does Boston value the goalie rotation to the point where they let Ullmark decide his next step. They should be able to afford it, but I do think there is value if they can fill other voids.

2. If they decide to trade him, my assumption is they’d prefer to ship him to a non ready eastern contender whose primary weakness is goalie if all things are close to equal.

3. Curious to see what both sides take on Holtz is? He’s not performing like you would anticipate for his draft position, but I think that’s the reason he’s in this deal.

2 janv. à 11 h 53

#16

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Modifié 2 janv. à 11 h 58

Quoting: TGSCraig

You absolutely could get a 1st+ for holtz with 2 ELC years and his 5v5 goal production

2 janv. à 12 h 4

#17

Celtics21

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Quoting: dgibb10

The last reigning vezina winner traded went for a 2nd round pick. Ullmark at 5 mill for 1 year tops out at a 1st

Holtz’ trade value is simply higher that that.

I realize you don’t acknowledge cap and age considerations, so I’ll continue to ask … if it were that easy, why are you playing with your current goaltenders and not getting any bites to improve the situation?

Either way, even if the circumstance played out where they’d want to dump Ullmark (two free agents let it be known they want Boston and they need his salary to do it), Boston isn’t trading him to a team in their way for your perception of “market value” so Jersey is going to be in the same situation.

2 janv. à 12 h 9

#18

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Quoting: dgibb10

The last reigning vezina winner traded went for a 2nd round pick. Ullmark at 5 mill for 1 year tops out at a 1st

Holtz’ trade value is simply higher that that.

Fleury was also 36 and making $7M AAV at the time of the trade... a much higher percentage of cap space. Ullmark has a lot more left in the tank and is on a good contract.

2 janv. à 12 h 12

#19

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Quoting: Celtics21

I realize you don’t acknowledge cap and age considerations, so I’ll continue to ask … if it were that easy, why are you playing with your current goaltenders and not getting any bites to improve the situation?

Either way, even if the circumstance played out where they’d want to dump Ullmark (two free agents let it be known they want Boston), Boston isn’t trading him to a team in their way for market value so Jersey is going to be in the same situation.

Our GM has specifically stated on MULTIPLE occasions that he doesn’t believe in trading for goalies midseason. Vanacek and Schmid were good last year, and he has given them a chance to get right. I’d be more aggressive in targeting a goalie personally, but I’m not the GM

Did we buy an expensive goalie in 2021 when we were ravaged by goalie injuries? Nope, we waited until the offseason.

I will admit Vanacek wasn’t the right guy to get in that offseason. But he worked in 22-23, and was a young, effective starter when we acquired him

It’s very unlikely we trade for a hammer during this season due to our GMs philosophy.

That does not change the value of goaltenders league wide

I’d go after Swayman for a big haul (Mercer)

For a 1 year rental of a 5 mill goalie I’d give the fleury offer (he was the reigning vezina winner too). Conditional 2nd that can become a 1st

2 janv. à 12 h 12

#20

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Quoting: BruinsWoahWoah

Fleury was also 36 and making $7M AAV at the time of the trade... a much higher percentage of cap space. Ullmark has a lot more left in the tank and is on a good contract.

Fleury was traded at a 3.5 mill cap hit to the Wild. I don’t care how much Ullmark may have in the tank on a contract I don’t want to be the one to give him. He has 2 years of control at 5 mill AAV right now, or 1 year at 5 mill after this year.

2 janv. à 12 h 30

#21

Celtics21

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Quoting: dgibb10

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

1. The original deal was in the off-season where Ullmark can be extended

2. The thought process you have towards goalies is the reason you are in the position you are in right now. There is a group of GM’s who believe goalies can be cheap only to find themselves with Vanacek type players mining their goal. At some point, will PTSD, reality, or an owner firing them kick in?

3. If Boston, NY, or another competitor in the East had a hole that was keeping them from competing and you had depth that could help them, are you trading them that depth for some middling conditional pick?

I doubt your perception of goalie value is correct, but for a compete lark, let’s assume it is. If the offer is a conditional first and he can’t get better elsewhere, I’m sure Sweeney is fine going with a 2 goalie rotation which has been the primary reason that Montgomery has the record he does. Even if he decides to trade him, it won’t be to a competitor. He can let Jersey pine for Akira Schmid to become the holy grail

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2 janv. à 12 h 33

#22

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Quoting: Celtics21

The wheels on the bus go round and round.

1. The original deal was in the off-season where Ullmark can be extended

2. The thought process you have towards goalies is the reason you are in the position you are in right now. There is a group of GM’s who believe goalies can be cheap only to find themselves with Vanacek type players mining their goal. At some point, will PTSD or reality kick in?

3. If Boston, NY, or another competition had a hole that was keeping them from competing and you had depth that could help them, are you trading them that depth for some middling conditional pick?

I doubt your perception of goalie value is correct, but for a compete lark, let’s assume it is. If the offer is a conditional first and he can’t get better elsewhere, I’m sure Sweeney is fine going with a 2 goalie rotation which has been the primary reason that Montgomery has the record he does and let Jersey pine for Akira Schmid to make those memories go away.

Oh yeah no way you can have success with a cheap goalie.

Surely you can’t find a goalie via a cheap trade (adin hill, Filip Gustafsson)

You literally got Ullmark as a UFA and are now trying to claim you can’t find goalies for free

2 janv. à 13 h 1

#23

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I truly don't get why dgibb derails every conversation about a goalie trade and always devolves it into "the Devils should give up peanuts and get a Vezina trophy winner or they could just sign a guy off the street."

It can be true that you can get lucky and get a great goalie in free agency or via a very cheap trade. But it's also true that the Devils will have to give up assets for legitimate Vezina candidate goalies. I was banging the drum for Connor Hellebuyck, cost be damned, this summer, and he currently has the highest GSaX of all goalies, and would have the Devils in the President's Trophy hunt if they had traded for him.

At some point you do have to take a stab. And I think Ullmark is worth this amount of outlay

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2 janv. à 13 h 3

#24

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Quoting: dgibb10

Swayman isn't available for Mercer in a 1:1 deal and the cost of Ullmark starts with a first (they would probably consider Holtz + 2nd).

Thats fine if New Jersey doesn't want to pay that but their goaltending has been atrocious. Its crazy to think that New Jersey - a team that had high expectations at the start of the year and is currently on the outside of the playoffs - is content to stand pat and not address the issue when New Jersey has surrendered very few shots per game (29.3 which is 8th in the league) and given up a ton of goals (3.54 which is 29th in the league). Goaltending is the issue for the Devils plain and simple.

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2 janv. à 13 h 6

#25