That would be a horrible idea for the Flames. Scheifele has turned into a total floater, which is funny because his hands also seem to have left his body. He is smashing the glass floor when it comes to career lows in almost any category you can think of, including effort and attitude.

Steer clear, Big Tuna. Head for open waters. And don't do the Jets any monster favors, thanks.

He's 1 year removed from being one of the most elite centers and top 10 scorers in the league though. I think with Monahan's struggles he is well worth the risk.

I'm aware of his history. Have you seen him this season? It's baaaaad. Teammates are not so cryptically calling him out and everything. He recently got benched in the 3rd period of a game they won 4-1 on the road . Maybe he hasn't officially "jumped the shark" yet, but he's certainly in the act of trying to jump it.

So he's trying to get traded. Reminds me of Dubois who seems to be doing fine now. I dont think this means he will be bad or unmotivated on a contender though

Heh. Not sure how you got there, or how such behavior would be okay if that was the case. I'll just hope for your team's sake and mine that the Flames have a clearer head about his sharp and ever sharpening decline.

Being lazy and disengaged is not a decline though

Elite D-men have more value than 1st line centers. Karlsson was pretty much still the best in 2016-17

He had surgery after that long playoffs run though and has never been the same after that but still had a lot of value, but still not as much as fans think in general in return for star players.

Mark Scheifele has been one of my favorite non-Sens players for years but he is now almost 29 y/o and forwards tend to decline around that age. I think he still has good years left in him but it would be surprising to see a team give that kind of package to get him.


I'm kinda of an expert on that Karlsson deal, and I was one of the very few to like the return, even though I hated the traded (and the force-fed rebuild) of course. I said a few times (on another site) that the 1st round pick was a good piece because I could see the Sharks missing the playoffs on that 2nd year after they let Pavelski go. I thought something around 10th OA though, not 3rd OA! I was also a big believer in Josh Norris but of course didn't know he had 40 goals potential. Same for Balcers, I didn't know him much but really liked what I have seen/read in my research


But to compare with the package in the OP, I'd like to contribute my 3 cents :


- 1st (conditions?) : if you think they have the same value, conditions could be similar here

- 1 of Pelletier/Zary/Coronato (Norris equivalent) : Pelletier I'd say and his 20 y/o AHL rookie season almost matches Norris' so far. I like Zary and Coronato but not the same level of prospect as what Norris was.

- Dube (Tierney equivalent) : I'm the farthest thing you could find from a Tierney fan but he was more proven and better than Dube, so more value

- Valimaki (DeMelo equivalent) : DeMelo was a throw in, he had cleared waivers a few months prior. Valimaki was actually a very good prospect not that long ago who has been struggling this season. He still has some residual value left, DeMelo had zero value

- Ryan Francis (Balcers equivalent) : I think Balcers was a much better prospect. He was seen as a Sharks top-3 prospect and was the Barracuda best player in his 20 y/o AHL rookie season

- Cond. 2023 2nd (transfers if Calgary make the semi's, if they do not Winnipeg gets the 2022 3rd) : a 2nd is a 2nd

- Higher of Calgary's two 2022 2nds : a 2nd is a 2nd

I think the "replacing Dube and Valimaki with Monahan" hurts your case a bit as many know about Monahan struggles, playing 4th line, etc and Dube/Valimaki are good young pieces with upside.

Maybe, trade away Monahan in a separate deal?

Interesting idea.

Would think WPG wants CGY to replace Zary with Pelletier, but other than that it's pretty solid.

Ehh we could debate about that for a while, but that's only part of it anyway. For instance, he had a career shooting % of over 16 coming into the season, and right now he's at 11% for the year. It's a whole bouquet of suck, really.

Monahan hasnt played 4th line since October. That is a pretty outdated claim. Yes he's struggled in comparison to his former self but he is still performing at a top 9 center caliber. Look at Gostisbehere for example. He was basically left on the side of the road by Philly, now he's revitalized his value decently well for next years TDL.

On another note Scheifele has also clearly underperformed this year

Thank you for the detailed and in-depth response, much appreciated. You and Mokumboi may be right that this is on the steeper end of prices and as I said in the description I find it very unlikely that he is traded at all this year.

As for your response to my trade breakdown:


I get what you mean about Pelletier being the most comparable simply because of current development. However I think it should be noted that in the most recent prospect rankings by TheHockeyWriters Zary was still ranked above Pelletier and Coronato only a few spots below. Also Zary's struggles in the AHL season this year are largely due to his injury keeping him out of the lineup for so long followed up by Stockton's success and line chemistry. When Zary joined the team he was placed on the 4th line simply because coaching didn't want to mess with anything up front. He has slowly been trying to climb through the ranks. Zary's short AHL stint last year when playing with the same linemates as Pelletier (Philips and Ruzicka/Gawdin) should provide some evidence of that.


I don't agree with this, Dube's been snake-bitten this year. Last year (his age 22 year) Dube was on pace for 35 points. This year his xGF is currently at 54.96% yet his GF is at only 38.00%, in 17/18 Tierney had a GF of 48.36% and xGF of 48.06%. Both players average 3rd line ice time.


Interesting, I was not aware he had cleared waivers that year. A year ago I guess I could have said Kylington but that is obviously no longer the case


Ryan Francis is a bit younger than Balcers was at the time and is regarded relatively highly as a prospect for the Flames. He had an excellent QMJHL season last year that earned him an honorary invite to both training camps this year where the best way to describe would be an unpolished gem. Due to CHL rules though he had to go back to the minors after barely any games with Stockton though. Francis was ranked 10th in Flames prospects by TWC in December and 9th by THW in August

If WPG are trading Scheifele, they probably aren't looking for Monahan back.

Send Monahan to another team in Gostisbehere-like trade.
Then do the above deal with Dube and Valimaki.

I understand the idea. But when I think about the jets trading scheifele. It’s likely 1 big piece or a big piece and a pick coming back. They’re going to be looking for a top end RW/C or RD prospect with a pick. I just think a package deal like this isn’t what they’d go for. Just my thoughts though.

Personally I'd rather keep Chisholm, he looks promising.

If it was me making the deal think I'd be wanting a straight futures package for Scheifele so not sure about Monahan but get that there needs to be some cap going back to Winnipeg.

Can we just send him to Columbus for Laine?.. lol 😆

I think that the Jets turn that down. Too much quantity, too little quality. Any of those pieces would make a nice add on to a main piece, except for Monahan, although I know you have him there for cap purposes. It's just missing the main piece.

Maybe in a 3-way like the Duchene trade. They wont trade Monahan before they no they can get Scheifele though

Welcome!



I might be higher on Pelletier than most though because of him being a QMJHL product but thanks for the Zary insight. Next season will be important for him. Coronato could also be the best of the 3. Hard to say which one will develop the best



Yeah but actual results matter more. Tierney had 17 goals 40 pts in his 23 y/o season, Dube is on pace for 8 goals and 22 points. Maybe he turns it up in the 2nd half but as of NOW, we could say that Tierney had more value at the moment of the EK trade than Dube has now.



Yeah it shows that things can change quickly. I would say that Vali has much more value than DeMelo had at that moment, which was at most a 7th round pick




Interesting, and thanks for the links always interested to look at this kind of ranking

Look at this one, Balcers being Sharks #2 behind Merkley but just in front of Ferraro, Norris and Gambrell

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2018/08/09/san-jose-sharks-prospects/

Pronman at The Athletic had Norris and Balcers at 3 and 4 respectively, as “legit NHL prospects”.

I think Balcers was easily considered a better prospect than Francis is now. Doesn't mean Francis can't be better