Forums/Armchair-GM

Chevy from the cottage

Créé par: jgimp69
Date de création initiale: mai 16, 2021
Publié: 16 mai à 15 h 53
Équipe: 2021-22 Jets de Winnipeg
Explications
Testing the waters wondering what Detroit fans think. Most Wings fans think Seider is untouchable which is entirely fair, just want to know if this is close, over or under pay? Constructive criticism is welcome, no a$$holes please.
Patrick is worth the risk of a 2nd. Vancouver clears Loui and his cap, cheaper than Seattle taking him. Bye Copp
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Patrick, Nolan22 250 000 $
Pionk, Neal55 250 000 $
Stanley, Logan2925 000 $
Kovacevic, Johnny2875 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Lewis, Trevor1925 000 $
Offres hostiles
Le salaire annuel moyen (AAV) de l'offre hostile est calculé en divisant la valeur totale du contrat par: 1. La durée totale du contrat, ou 2. Cinq ans
JOUEURAAVCOMPENSATION
Patrick, Nolan2 250 000 $
Choix de 2e ronde en 2022
Transactions
WPG
  1. 2021 3e round pick (SEA)
SEA
  1. Copp, Andrew [Droits de RFA]
Détails additionnels:
Winnipeg exposes Copp
WPG
  1. Eriksson, Loui
  2. 2021 2e round pick (VAN)
Détails additionnels:
Cap dump
VAN
    WPG
    1. Seider, Moritz
    DET
    1. Perfetti, Cole
    2. Samberg, Dylan
    3. 2021 1e round pick (WPG)
    Détails additionnels:
    Expensive, I know. But our D core would be set for years.
    Enfoui
    • Loui Eriksson: 4 875 000 $ (6 000 000 $)
    ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
    2021
    WPG
    VAN
    WPG
    SEA
    WPG
    2022
    WPG
    WPG
    CBJ
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    2023
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    WPG
    2024
    WPG
    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2081 500 000 $71 367 978 $145 122 $1 757 500 $10 132 022 $

    Formation

    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
    WPG
    Connor, Kyle
    7 142 857 $
    AG
    UFA - 5
    WPG
    Scheifele, Mark
    6 125 000 $
    C
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    WPG
    Ehlers, Nikolaj
    6 000 000 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 4
    WPG
    Vesalainen, Kristian
    894 167 $
    AG, AD
    RFA - 1
    WPG
    Dubois, Pierre-Luc
    5 000 000 $
    C
    RFA - 1
    WPG
    Wheeler, Blake
    8 250 000 $
    AD, C
    NMC
    UFA - 3
    Patrick, Nolan
    2 250 000 $
    C, AD
    RFA
    WPG
    Lowry, Adam
    3 250 000 $
    C
    NTC
    UFA - 5
    WPG
    Appleton, Mason
    900 000 $
    AD, C
    RFA - 1
    WPG
    Harkins, Jansen
    725 000 $
    AG, C
    RFA - 1
    WPG
    Gustafsson, David
    817 500 $
    C
    RFA - 1
    WPG
    Lewis, Trevor
    925 000 $
    AD
    UFA - 1
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    WPG
    Heinola, Ville
    863 333 $
    DG
    RFA - 3
    WPG
    Pionk, Neal
    5 250 000 $
    DD
    UFA - 4
    WPG
    Hellebuyck, Connor
    6 166 666 $
    G
    UFA - 3
    WPG
    Morrissey, Joshua
    6 250 000 $
    DG
    UFA - 7
    DET
    Seider, Moritz
    863 333 $
    DD
    RFA - 3
    WPG
    Berdin, Mikhail
    750 000 $
    G
    RFA - 2
    WPG
    Stanley, Logan
    925 000 $
    DG
    RFA - 2
    WPG
    DeMelo, Dylan
    3 000 000 $
    DD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
    WPG
    Little, Bryan
    5 291 667 $
    C, AD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    WPG
    Beaulieu, Nathan
    1 250 000 $
    DG/DD
    UFA - 1

    Unités spéciales

    Infériorité numérique 2
     
     
    , .
     

    Code d'intégration

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    Texte intégré

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    16 mai à 15 h 57
    #1
    PlusMinus is stupid
    Rejoint: mai 2018
    Messages: 2,455
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,199
    Detroit has no interest in trading Seider. It's a non-starter.
    jgimp69, BStinson, buffbry and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 00
    #2
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: DeadWingsv2
    Detroit has no interest in trading Seider. It's a non-starter.


    Fair enough, just wanted to check values is all.
    DeadWingsv2 et aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 01
    #3
    Rejoint: mai 2019
    Messages: 8,588
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,968
    that is an absolutely hilarious over payment for Seider. Perfetti alone is probably closer to equal value
    16 mai à 16 h 03
    #4
    PlusMinus is stupid
    Rejoint: mai 2018
    Messages: 2,455
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,199
    Quoting: jgimp69
    Fair enough, just wanted to check values is all.

    Yea, I get where you're coming from, there just really isn't a value to gauge in this case, because the only way Detroit would trade him would be for a return that would, to be frank, be ridiculous for another team to give up.
    NLidstrom, buffbry, aedoran and 3 others a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 06
    #5
    PlusMinus is stupid
    Rejoint: mai 2018
    Messages: 2,455
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,199
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    that is an absolutely hilarious over payment for Seider. Perfetti alone is probably closer to equal value

    I'm not saying you guys should want to make that trade either, but pump the brakes... Perfetti isn't even close to as NHL ready as Seider is right now. Over time Perfetti could turn into a great player, but right now he's not even close to on par with Seider as far as value.
    buffbry, aedoran et jgimp69 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 11
    #6
    Rejoint: mai 2019
    Messages: 8,588
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,968
    Quoting: DeadWingsv2
    I'm not saying you guys should want to make that trade either, but pump the brakes... Perfetti isn't even close to as NHL ready as Seider is right now. Over time Perfetti could turn into a great player, but right now he's not even close to on par with Seider as far as value.


    im not a Jets fan, and i dont factor in NHL readiness as a viable reason to value a prospect more than another when it's max a seasons difference or so. Perfetti is already a great player and he is easily close to on par value wise with Seider
    Windjammer et jgimp69 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 18
    #7
    Rejoint: mai 2020
    Messages: 4,075
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,002
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    that is an absolutely hilarious over payment for Seider. Perfetti alone is probably closer to equal value


    How? Samberg doesn’t have material value in a deal involving a blue chip defense prospect especially one ranked as the top defensemen outside the NHL. A mid to late first round pick is just that. I’m not sure how you can honestly say this is a “hilarious overpayment” unless you’re bullish on Perfetti. Either way, Yzerman has repeatedly said he’s untouchable and passed on Perfetti for Raymond.
    aedoran et jgimp69 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 20
    #8
    Rejoint: mai 2019
    Messages: 8,588
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,968
    Quoting: BStinson
    How? Samberg doesn’t have material value in a deal involving a blue chip defense prospect especially one ranked as the top defensemen outside the NHL. A mid to late first round pick is just that. I’m not sure how you can honestly say this is a “hilarious overpayment” unless you’re bullish on Perfetti. Either way, Yzerman has repeatedly said he’s untouchable and passed on Perfetti for Raymond.


    im incredibly bullish on Perfetti. He is really really good, he is at worst a 3rd rounders value less than Seider. Thus a 1st+ on top of him is a hilarious over payment.
    16 mai à 16 h 31
    #9
    Rejoint: mai 2020
    Messages: 4,075
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,002
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    im incredibly bullish on Perfetti. He is really really good, he is at worst a 3rd rounders value less than Seider. Thus a 1st+ on top of him is a hilarious over payment.

    “he is at worst a 3rd rounders value less than Seider” that’s your opinion not fact. We’ve seen professional hockey analyst already claim that they wouldn’t be surprised to see Seider as a top 5 defensemen in the league in 5ish years and we’ve seen lists where Seider is in the top 3/5. We’ve seen Seider play in three professional leagues and dominate in the SHL where he brought Rogle to the finals for the first time. I hope Perfetti has a good career. Honestly, a third rounder when dealing with blue chip prospects isn’t even worth mentioning and your opinion isn’t with the majority.
    RedWing9119, DeadWingsv2 et aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 35
    #10
    Jetsfan
    Rejoint: sep 2017
    Messages: 6,433
    Mentions "j'aime": 1,981
    Quoting: DeadWingsv2
    Yea, I get where you're coming from, there just really isn't a value to gauge in this case, because the only way Detroit would trade him would be for a return that would, to be frank, be ridiculous for another team to give up.


    Quoting: jgimp69
    Fair enough, just wanted to check values is all.


    What about a homeboy in Copp for Hronek?
    aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 37
    #11
    Rejoint: mai 2019
    Messages: 8,588
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,968
    Quoting: BStinson
    “he is at worst a 3rd rounders value less than Seider” that’s your opinion not fact. We’ve seen professional hockey analyst already claim that they wouldn’t be surprised to see Seider as a top 5 defensemen in the league in 5ish years and we’ve seen lists where Seider is in the top 3/5. We’ve seen Seider play in three professional leagues and dominate in the SHL where he brought Rogle to the finals for the first time. I hope Perfetti has a good career. Honestly, a third rounder when dealing with blue chip prospects isn’t even worth mentioning and your opinion isn’t with the majority.


    Yes, it is my opinion. And let me guess, you're reading craig button right? He's really bad at his job.
    And yes, i know a 3rd round is minimal value difference, that was the point. And my opinion not being with the majority is your opinion.
    MisstheWhalers a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 40
    #12
    Rejoint: mai 2020
    Messages: 4,075
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,002
    Quoting: Jetman
    What about a homeboy in Copp for Hronek?

    Looks like Copp is forcing his way to UFA and you have to plan for the expansion. Are you protecting him or Appleton? I’d give you either the Rags or EDM second rounder this year but I wouldn’t even think about Hronek unless we’re talking something with Perfetti or Heinola.
    RedWing9119 et aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 16 h 57
    #13
    Rejoint: mai 2020
    Messages: 4,075
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,002
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    Yes, it is my opinion. And let me guess, you're reading craig button right? He's really bad at his job.
    And yes, i know a 3rd round is minimal value difference, that was the point. And my opinion not being with the majority is your opinion.

    Button has a recent ranking out and you can agree or disagree with him all you want but supports my claim. Aftonbladet are some SHL experts which also agree. Lidstrom and Erik Granqvist also provided context over their broadcast. There was also another Swedish broadcaster claiming he’s going to be a top 5 d in the NHL soon. You haven’t provided any support to your claim so it’s in the minority nor did you even acknowledge the value in Samberg or a mid to late first rounder to make it a “hilarious overpayment”.
    RedWing9119, DeadWingsv2 et aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 17 h 10
    #14
    Rejoint: mai 2019
    Messages: 8,588
    Mentions "j'aime": 2,968
    Quoting: BStinson
    Button has a recent ranking out and you can agree or disagree with him all you want but supports my claim. Aftonbladet are some SHL experts which also agree. Lidstrom and Erik Granqvist also provided context over their broadcast. There was also another Swedish broadcaster claiming he’s going to be a top 5 d in the NHL soon. You haven’t provided any support to your claim so it’s in the minority nor did you even acknowledge the value in Samberg or a mid to late first rounder to make it a “hilarious overpayment”.


    Craig Button is just bad at his job, you can literally go over all his rankings and at best it looks like a consensus with some random darts thrown at the board so he gets clicks.
    I have no idea what you are saying these nameless SHL experts and other people are agreeing on, since i doubt very much they put out "Moritz Seider is much more valuable than Cole Perfetti" quotes and blanket saying that they agree on something dubious is meaningless.
    And a random Swedish broadcaster stating something hilarious like a 20 year old without an NHL game is going to be a top 5 D in the NHL soon doesnt sound.....a little insane to you? Like, i get you're excited about that, but if any broadcaster said that about any prospect without an NHL look who wasnt named mcdavid or crosby it would be absolutly laughable.
    and again, you are inventing this minority thing, because you literally have no information on anyone comparing these two specific prospects. that was my point. You like Seider, good for you, but you have your own opinion drawn from a bunch of random sources that have no tangible connection to the value comparison between these two players. So, my opinion on whatever minority or majority im part of is just as valid as yours is.
    So, yes, it is my opinion it is a hilarious over payment because of what ive researched about the two prospects, that is literally the entire point of these boards.
    oh, and bob mackenzie had Perfetti ranked 5th on his consensus ranking and Holtz 9th, so i guess that might mean something.
    16 mai à 17 h 12
    #15
    Rejoint: mar 2019
    Messages: 886
    Mentions "j'aime": 510
    I like the idea of creating a package to acquire an elite player.
    But Seider is looking like he's going to be very elite, so he's probably not the guy to target. But proposals like the one above is what (should) makes this website fun.
    Can't see too many teams who are looking to trade their elite players, unless it's for an elite player back (unless maybe Eichel).
    Jets should probably look to target a guy like Hamilton this offseason, or maybe hope Pulock makes it to FA a year later. Ekblad would be awesome, but FLA is not trading him.
    Maybe also Parayko? But I'd bet he stays in STL.
    I'd also suggest Jones, but CBJ is gonna push hard to keep him and he may be one of the guys that PLD has an icy relationship with.
    Maybe Ekholm in FA? Hampus Lindholm? Dumba? (although I'd argue Dumba wouldn't make the impact that people would want)
    Could they trade for Ellis? Maybe, but he's on the wrong side of 30 now and he doesn't have the size that the backend needs.
    Maybe Severson when he hits UFA?
    Just spitballing. It's unfortunate that what they really need is Buff. He checks every box for that missing piece on the backend.
    MisstheWhalers a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 17 h 21
    #16
    Rejoint: déc 2017
    Messages: 12,555
    Mentions "j'aime": 5,737
    Quoting: Jetman
    What about a homeboy in Copp for Hronek?


    Hronek is currently Detroit's best defenseman and the only top pair defenseman they have had in quite a while. So I doubt Detroit would accept Copp for Hronek. I think Copp is a good player but to Detroit Hronek is more valuable.
    MisstheWhalers et mikearky a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 17 h 38
    #17
    Rejoint: mai 2020
    Messages: 4,075
    Mentions "j'aime": 3,002
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    Craig Button is just bad at his job, you can literally go over all his rankings and at best it looks like a consensus with some random darts thrown at the board so he gets clicks.
    I have no idea what you are saying these nameless SHL experts and other people are agreeing on, since i doubt very much they put out "Moritz Seider is much more valuable than Cole Perfetti" quotes and blanket saying that they agree on something dubious is meaningless.
    And a random Swedish broadcaster stating something hilarious like a 20 year old without an NHL game is going to be a top 5 D in the NHL soon doesnt sound.....a little insane to you? Like, i get you're excited about that, but if any broadcaster said that about any prospect without an NHL look who wasnt named mcdavid or crosby it would be absolutly laughable.
    and again, you are inventing this minority thing, because you literally have no information on anyone comparing these two specific prospects. that was my point. You like Seider, good for you, but you have your own opinion drawn from a bunch of random sources that have no tangible connection to the value comparison between these two players. So, my opinion on whatever minority or majority im part of is just as valid as yours is.
    So, yes, it is my opinion it is a hilarious over payment because of what ive researched about the two prospects, that is literally the entire point of these boards.
    oh, and bob mackenzie had Perfetti ranked 5th on his consensus ranking and Holtz 9th, so i guess that might mean something.

    You can do that with every expert. If the draft was so definitive you would have the best players always picked early but this isn’t the case.

    Did I ever say those SHL experts claimed Seider > Perfetti. No, I said they commented on his play and how he translates to the NHL. I’m not sure I’d label Lidstrom as nameless or you’ve only followed the game for the last few years. As for the other analysts they’re well known in the Swedish community just as NA sources are for NA. Sanni Lindstrom is the one stating he think Seider could be a top 5 defensemen in the NHL in 5ish year and is a pretty well known analyst not really known for pumping up a prospect. Probably has to do with Seider destroying analytics this year in the SHL, so yeah I’m a little pumped for him even before this season.

    I’m not a Holtz fan, and it still stands that Detroit whom knew Perfetti that best personality at the draft still passed on him for 6th rank Raymond per that same list. I say the knew him the best as Perfetti’s family and Drapers are extremely close, he plays for an OHL team owned by Wings (Osgood/Devellano). Like I said, Yzerman already passed on him and said Seider is untouchable so you’d think Perfetti + isn’t outlandish. You want to say overpayment, okay but like I said it’s your opinion your entitled to it. As for direct comparison, Button’s list like you said would compare them.
    RedWing9119 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 17 h 46
    #18
    MisstheWhalers
    Rejoint: jan 2019
    Messages: 14,656
    Mentions "j'aime": 6,470
    Quoting: aedoran
    Hronek is currently Detroit's best defenseman and the only top pair defenseman they have had in quite a while. So I doubt Detroit would accept Copp for Hronek. I think Copp is a good player but to Detroit Hronek is more valuable.


    And Hronek is just better, Copp while decent has gotten overrated.
    aedoran a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 18 h 27
    #19
    Rejoint: jui 2017
    Messages: 30
    Mentions "j'aime": 11
    Quoting: jgimp69
    Fair enough, just wanted to check values is all.


    I would figure it would start with 1 of Connor, Ehlers, or Dubois, then Perfetti as well. RD are still the most coveted pieces teams are looking for. And by all signs Sieder is gonna be a great 1. Or maybe Scheifele + less than Perfetti. Scheifele is a bit old for our timeline thou.
    jgimp69 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 18 h 43
    #20
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: DatsyukianDekes
    I would figure it would start with 1 of Connor, Ehlers, or Dubois, then Perfetti as well. RD are still the most coveted pieces teams are looking for. And by all signs Sieder is gonna be a great 1. Or maybe Scheifele + less than Perfetti. Scheifele is a bit old for our timeline thou.


    Don’t disagree with the RHD being most coveted, but asking for a Scorer like Connor or driver like Ehlers + Perfetti is a bit much for a guy who has yet to play an NHL game. I know his potential is high but that is excessive IMO.
    16 mai à 18 h 44
    #21
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: JaredOfLondon
    that is an absolutely hilarious over payment for Seider. Perfetti alone is probably closer to equal value


    I agree, but there also has to be some element of overpay. Jets are not really in a position to wait for their defensive needs and therefore need to give up something that will hurt
    16 mai à 18 h 45
    #22
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: DatsyukianDekes
    I would figure it would start with 1 of Connor, Ehlers, or Dubois, then Perfetti as well. RD are still the most coveted pieces teams are looking for. And by all signs Sieder is gonna be a great 1. Or maybe Scheifele + less than Perfetti. Scheifele is a bit old for our timeline thou.


    Scheifele has more value that Seider. Proven 1C, the other hardest position to fill in the NHL, Seider has yet to play an NHL game. Detroit adds
    16 mai à 18 h 48
    #23
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: BStinson
    How? Samberg doesn’t have material value in a deal involving a blue chip defense prospect especially one ranked as the top defensemen outside the NHL. A mid to late first round pick is just that. I’m not sure how you can honestly say this is a “hilarious overpayment” unless you’re bullish on Perfetti. Either way, Yzerman has repeatedly said he’s untouchable and passed on Perfetti for Raymond.


    It’s not so much a hilarious overpayment and just an overpayment. Detroit still doesn’t do it as Seider is a foundational piece of their future, but it would take a package of somewhat similar value to get him.
    RedWing9119 a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 18 h 50
    #24
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: MisstheWhalers
    And Hronek is just better, Copp while decent has gotten overrated.


    Question, is Hronek actually top pair quality, or is he just playing top minutes cause he’s the best D Detroit has. Beaulieu used to play top minutes but is far, far away from top pair. Same could. be said for 95% of defenders I guess
    Windjammer a aimé ceci.
    16 mai à 18 h 56
    #25
    Démarrer sujet
    Jet69
    Rejoint: jan 2018
    Messages: 1,515
    Mentions "j'aime": 566
    Quoting: MisstheWhalers
    And Hronek is just better, Copp while decent has gotten overrated.


    Copp is one of the best 2 way middle 6 C’s in the league. He can play up and down the lineup where he’s needed and produce regardless and is just hitting his prime. He’s not overrated, he’s just starting to get noticed! But yes. Peg adds to Copp for Hronek. But I do like that as a base. Great idea.
     
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