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Strike Three Billy Boy

Créé par: MNBassman
Équipe: 2019-20 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 24 févr. 2020
Publié: 24 févr. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I’m ok with the Parise deal not working out and I’m fine with the Wild being patient with potential deals for Brodin and/or Dumba...but I am livid they did absolutely nothing today!!
In my mind, GM Bill Guerin now has 3 strikes against him: 1) he was stupid enough to take this job in the first place, 2) signing Jared Spurgeon to a 7 year deal, and 3) not trading Staal, Galchenyuk, Hunt, and Pateryn for whatever offers he might have had on the table! Pathetic!
The ONLY reason I can fathom is not wanting to interfere with the Iowa Wild’s stellar season and post season aspirations. But, I don’t think anything going on with Iowa should trump the ultimate goal of building a legitimate Cup contending team in downtown St Paul.
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $71 328 591 $0 $1 100 000 $10 171 409 $
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24 févr. 2020 à 17 h 41
#1
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A couple of 2nds, a couple of 4ths, and a 7th aren't going to change the future of this year.
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24 févr. 2020 à 17 h 57
#2
Good Opinion Haver
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So any GM that takes the Wild job just has one strike against him immediately? Would you just rather not have a GM? Or did you just want to have a catchy three strikes thing even though you couldn't think of three bad things he's done?

The Spurgeon deal is good. He's not declining yet, and he plays a style that will age well, we see tons of defensemen who can play well into their thirties as long as they don't rely heavily on speed or physicality, neither of which Spurgeon does. If you trade Staal, JEEK becomes your top line center next year. For what- a second round pick, maybe? Galchenyuk- who wants the guy who has been traded three times in the last 1.5 years and performed worse in each place?

Standing pat today was the smartest thing for him to do. Other than July 1st, this is the day teams screw themselves up the most. The fact that there's any hope of getting rid of the Parise contract early should have you ecstatic.
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24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 0
#3
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Why make a trade just to make a trade? I doubt he was being offered significant pieces for the players you mentioned and at that point why trade them. This team will belly out on its own. Let the ship sink naturally with the gaping hole it has, there's no use in shooting a couple bb's in the hull cause it's going down anyways.
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24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 12
#4
wpg
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Guerin actually looks like a good gm, i honestly think he has one of toughest jobs in the nhl... the wild r in a pretty awkward place right now. as they have been for the past few years

all 3 points r not very good.. the first one is stupid, the second one, nice cap friendly extension and gives flexibility on what to do with dumba probably trade him (u cant just throw young prospects on the top line and expect them to develop, Spurgeon gives a nice cushion), 3rd... just look at top post
24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 19
#5
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster
So any GM that takes the Wild job just has one strike against him immediately? Would you just rather not have a GM? Or did you just want to have a catchy three strikes thing even though you couldn't think of three bad things he's done?

The Spurgeon deal is good. He's not declining yet, and he plays a style that will age well, we see tons of defensemen who can play well into their thirties as long as they don't rely heavily on speed or physicality, neither of which Spurgeon does. If you trade Staal, JEEK becomes your top line center next year. For what- a second round pick, maybe? Galchenyuk- who wants the guy who has been traded three times in the last 1.5 years and performed worse in each place?

Standing pat today was the smartest thing for him to do. Other than July 1st, this is the day teams screw themselves up the most. The fact that there's any hope of getting rid of the Parise contract early should have you ecstatic.


Spurgeon is also a top notch guy to have as a veteran in the locker room to help lead a rebuild. He's made it where he is by working hard and other players see that. I really think he should be given the C next season if Koivu does retire.
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24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 29
#6
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Quoting: TanSor
Why make a trade just to make a trade? I doubt he was being offered significant pieces for the players you mentioned and at that point why trade them. This team will belly out on its own. Let the ship sink naturally with the gaping hole it has, there's no use in shooting a couple bb's in the hull cause it's going down anyways.


I have to believe that the trade for Parise that the Islanders offered was probably something really bad like $2m retained on Parise for Ladd and a fringe NHL player or something completely pointless. As much as I'd like for Guerin to find a way to move Parise, Parise has $98m reasons for me to not feeling sorry if he has to stay for a rebuild. Guerin did right in the Zucker trade, I have faith he knows what he's doing and will try again at the draft when teams have more flexibility.
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24 févr. 2020 à 18 h 50
#7
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MNBassman
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Quoting: wabit
A couple of 2nds, a couple of 4ths, and a 7th aren't going to change the future of this year.


Kaprizov and Kovanov, need I say more?
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 30
#8
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Someone else would have off-loaded half these guys for absolutely nothing by now. I'm glad Guerin is waiting, no need to rush on anything. Only lost out on a potential 3rd maybe for Galchenyuk, but I think he's a guy to maybe re-sign now that Parise probably goes in the summer.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 30
#9
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MNBassman
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster
So any GM that takes the Wild job just has one strike against him immediately? Would you just rather not have a GM? Or did you just want to have a catchy three strikes thing even though you couldn't think of three bad things he's done?

The Spurgeon deal is good. He's not declining yet, and he plays a style that will age well, we see tons of defensemen who can play well into their thirties as long as they don't rely heavily on speed or physicality, neither of which Spurgeon does. If you trade Staal, JEEK becomes your top line center next year. For what- a second round pick, maybe? Galchenyuk- who wants the guy who has been traded three times in the last 1.5 years and performed worse in each place?

Standing pat today was the smartest thing for him to do. Other than July 1st, this is the day teams screw themselves up the most. The fact that there's any hope of getting rid of the Parise contract early should have you ecstatic.


I respectfully disagree with everything you wrote.

Strike one is a direct reflection on my very low opinion of Wild owner, Craig Leipold! I can’t imagine how an intelligent person would ever want to be his GM.
Spurgeon is absolutely dependent on his speed and when he loses even a 1/4 step, his entire game will go to hell! GMs should Never sign ANY 30 year old to a 7 year contract, but especially a defenseman who is 5 foot nothing - and a hundred and nothing! Look around the league - there are countless numbers of horrible contracts simply because a player declined before the contract expired. It’s simply horrible business! If an older player like Spurgeon demands that long of a contract, you trade him and reload with youth.
I would much rather play Ek on the 1st or 2nd line than Staal right now! Staal is not a part of the future, but Ek is a very big part! Playing Ekw in an elevated role allows the Wild to learn what they really have in him so they can plan accordingly for the future.
Keeping old bit players around does nothing for the future of this franchise except clog the depth charts and take playing time away from players who might actually matter in a couple years.
Today was a horrible day for the Wild, period...end of story!
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 33
#10
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Quoting: JayTea
I have to believe that the trade for Parise that the Islanders offered was probably something really bad like $2m retained on Parise for Ladd and a fringe NHL player or something completely pointless. As much as I'd like for Guerin to find a way to move Parise, Parise has $98m reasons for me to not feeling sorry if he has to stay for a rebuild. Guerin did right in the Zucker trade, I have faith he knows what he's doing and will try again at the draft when teams have more flexibility.


Wouldn't have gotten to the point of asking him to waive if it was that bad, that's usually the last thing. I think Lou maybe didn't think he'd waive and then tried to backtrack a prospect or pick out of the deal or something.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 54
#11
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Quoting: MNBassman
Kaprizov and Kovanov, need I say more?


And the plethora of other picks that turn into nothing? It's too soon to say Kovanov will even be a NHL player. CHL stats (especially from the Q) don't impress me for guys in their draft year +2.

Making trades just to make trades doesn't do much for me. Today was the TDL I was about expecting this year (nothing or a maybe minor move), with Kunin and Soucy both out for a bit. The only trade today I would have wanted the Wild to make was getting Lehner from CHI.

I do think the Parise trade was mostly just the TV talking heads needing to fill air time and nothing really serious. Asking both him and Ladd if they would waive was just the first step to see if it was even worth even talking about between the GMs.

I don't have a problem with MN's owner, he'll at least spend the money to try and make the team good. The GM I'm not impressed with with the Spurgeon contract and the timing of BB's firing. The only good thing he's done is get rid of Zucker.
24 févr. 2020 à 19 h 58
#12
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Quoting: BLIvingston33
Wouldn't have gotten to the point of asking him to waive if it was that bad, that's usually the last thing. I think Lou maybe didn't think he'd waive and then tried to backtrack a prospect or pick out of the deal or something.


Time is limited as the deadline gets closer. It doesn't have to be serious to ask a player to waive, or where he'll waive to play. It's a waste or time for both GMs if a player (two if them in this trade) is going to say no to waiving.
24 févr. 2020 à 21 h 18
#13
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MNBassman
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Quoting: wabit
And the plethora of other picks that turn into nothing? It's too soon to say Kovanov will even be a NHL player. CHL stats (especially from the Q) don't impress me for guys in their draft year +2.

Making trades just to make trades doesn't do much for me. Today was the TDL I was about expecting this year (nothing or a maybe minor move), with Kunin and Soucy both out for a bit. The only trade today I would have wanted the Wild to make was getting Lehner from CHI.

I do think the Parise trade was mostly just the TV talking heads needing to fill air time and nothing really serious. Asking both him and Ladd if they would waive was just the first step to see if it was even worth even talking about between the GMs.

I don't have a problem with MN's owner, he'll at least spend the money to try and make the team good. The GM I'm not impressed with with the Spurgeon contract and the timing of BB's firing. The only good thing he's done is get rid of Zucker.


The only thing this franchise should be concerned with is amassing as many future possibilities as possible...regardless of the odds. Not one of the players I listed here are part of the future of this team...so getting something...anything...is profoundly better than nothing!
24 févr. 2020 à 21 h 46
#14
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Quoting: MNBassman
The only thing this franchise should be concerned with is amassing as many future possibilities as possible...regardless of the odds. Not one of the players I listed here are part of the future of this team...so getting something...anything...is profoundly better than nothing!


The future of the team includes the rest of this season and next season too. I don't think they make the Playoffs this year, but they still have a chance to make it.

Next year without Staal there is Rask and JEE as centers on the team. Trading him this year means having a lost season next year too.

The GM sat on the fence for giving up on the season and going for it. I'm guessing the offers for Pateryn, Hunt, and Chucky were bad if any at all. I don;t even think the market for Staal was very good after last year's drama.

Foligno, Brodin, and Dumba were the real assets MN had to trade. Dumba's bad year would have meant coming down a lot from the ask for him. Lose Brodin (with Soucy out) and the d-corps will look like a hot mess. Foligno might be the most important FWD to the team this year, it would have taken a big overpay for me to like any trade involving him.

Muzzin is a good comparable for Brodin. I wouldn't have any issues signing Brodin to a similar contract to his new one. Then trade Dumba sometime before the expansion draft, or just let Seattle have him and be done with any expansion draft concerns.
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25 févr. 2020 à 10 h 31
#15
Good Opinion Haver
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Modifié 25 févr. 2020 à 10 h 39
Quoting: MNBassman
I respectfully disagree with everything you wrote.

Strike one is a direct reflection on my very low opinion of Wild owner, Craig Leipold! I can’t imagine how an intelligent person would ever want to be his GM.
Spurgeon is absolutely dependent on his speed and when he loses even a 1/4 step, his entire game will go to hell! GMs should Never sign ANY 30 year old to a 7 year contract, but especially a defenseman who is 5 foot nothing - and a hundred and nothing! Look around the league - there are countless numbers of horrible contracts simply because a player declined before the contract expired. It’s simply horrible business! If an older player like Spurgeon demands that long of a contract, you trade him and reload with youth.
I would much rather play Ek on the 1st or 2nd line than Staal right now! Staal is not a part of the future, but Ek is a very big part! Playing Ekw in an elevated role allows the Wild to learn what they really have in him so they can plan accordingly for the future.
Keeping old bit players around does nothing for the future of this franchise except clog the depth charts and take playing time away from players who might actually matter in a couple years.
Today was a horrible day for the Wild, period...end of story!


That first point is simply ridiculous. I'm not trying to be rude, but come on man, there are only thirty one, soon to be thirty two GM spots in the NHL. People work their entire careers for a shot at one. You can't blame them for seizing that opportunity just because you don't like the owner. Like I said, would you rather just not have a GM? That doesn't help you get out of this mess of a team that's been built.

With the JEEK stuff, I think that that is a shortsighted analysis of your team and treating your young players like that can be very bad for them. Not every prospect can just step into a full time NHL role, it can ruin their development- look at what has happened with Casey Mittlestadt in Buffalo, who was rushed to a second line role he wasn't ready for and is now not good enough to be on one of the worst teams in the league. And then what do you have? You need guys to eat those minutes while still developing their young players. Look no further than Ottawa, who went out an acquired all these very meh NHL players like Zaitsev, Namestnikov, and Hainsey to eat those minutes instead of forcing Brady Tkachuk and Thomas Chabot against the best NHL players every night. Having those old guys around didn't prevent Thomas Chabot from stealing minutes from them anyway once he proved himself in a lower role. So I don't buy that Staal still being around blocks any of your young players from doing anything. And look no further to the second line that JEEk is currently playing on- not exactly killing it out there yet is he?

While I agree that signing some players long term is generally a bad move, it does not mean that signing all players long term is a bad move. Players who rely on skill over speed or physicality- Shea Weber, Mark Giordano, Joe Thornton- are players who can stick around in this league well into their thirties. You sign those kinds of elite players long term. You don't sign David Backes, Milan Lucic, or Brent Seabrook long term, because those guys all rely on physical based attributes to play the game the way they do and that diminishes as you age, as we've seen. Spurgeon being undersized is a good thing, because it means that he has had to develop incredible skill to hang in this size obsessed league. I'm not saying he's going to be a top pairing guy for the entirety of that contract, but he's also never going be in danger of being waived or sent to the AHL. RHD are very difficult to come by, as evidenced by all these bad trades from Leafs fans trying to steal Dumba away from you guys, and with Spurgeon gone the Wild would be screwed now and in the future.

Yesterday was perfectly fine and you are overreacting to nothing.
25 févr. 2020 à 10 h 36
#16
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MNBassman
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Quoting: TheEarthmaster
That first point is simply ridiculous. There are only thirty one, thirty two GM spots in the NHL. People work their entire careers for a shot at one. You can't blame them for seizing that opportunity just because you don't like the owner. Like I said, would you rather just not have a GM? That doesn't help you get out of this mess of a team that's been built.

With the JEEK stuff, I think that that is a shortsighted analysis of your team and treating your young players like that can be very bad for them. Not every prospect can just step into a full time NHL role, it can ruin their development. And then what do you have? You need guys to eat those minutes while still developing their young players. Look no further than Ottawa, who went out an acquired all these very meh NHL players like Zaitsev, Namestnikov, and Hainsey to eat those minutes instead of forcing Brady Tkachuk and Thomas Chabot against the best NHL players every night. Having those old guys around didn't prevent Thomas Chabot from stealing minutes from them anyway once he proved himself in a lower role. So I don't buy that Staal still being around blocks any of your young players from doing anything. And look no further to the second line that JEEk is currently playing on- not exactly killing it out there yet is he?

While I agree that signing some players long term is generally a bad move, it does not mean that signing all players long term is a bad move. Players who rely on skill over speed or physicality- Shea Weber, Mark Giordano, Joe Thornton- are players who can stick around in this league well into their thirties. You sign those kinds of elite players long term. You don't sign David Backes, Milan Lucic, or Brent Seabrook long term, because those guys all rely on physical based attributes to play the game the way they do and that diminishes as you age, as we've seen. Spurgeon being undersized is a good thing, because it means that he has had to develop incredible skill to hang in this size obsessed league. I'm not saying he's going to be a top pairing guy for the entirety of that contract, but he's also never going be in danger of being waived or sent to the AHL. RHD are very difficult to come by and the projections on his contract look excellent.

Yesterday was perfectly fine for the wild and you are overreacting to nothing.


I respect your points. You have sound content to back them, and you write well. Still, I completely disagree on a philosophical level.
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