Slavin is arguably the best shutdown defensemen in the league, but Quinn Hughes is a genuine top 3 defensemen. Aho and Petey can go either way tbh, I personally would put them both within that 6 - 11 range of centers.

Yeah Slavin is great no doubt, but Quinn is a top 3 dman in the league. Slavin is probably around the lower end of the top 10/just outside the top 10

Pettersson for me is a tier ahead of Aho. Put up 100 points last season playing mostly with Mikheyev/Kuzmenko/Beauvillier at 5v5. Had 89 this season (and a 107 point pace before his knee injury) with Mikheyev, Hoglander, and Kuzmenko as his 3 most common linemates. Aho had a career high this season and only matched Pettersson despite having significantly better linemates. Their defensive numbers are pretty similar as well

Slavin > Hughes, the gap between them defensively is WAY bigger than the gap between them offensively, and the rest of the game is close enough to call it a wash, so Slavin >

Andersen .932, Kochetkov .913. Demko .915. You have fun with that.

Aho > EP40. Aho's probably fringe top 5 C, EP40's closer to 11.

And I said EP40 played with better linemates, Miller and Boeser, his second most used line. Svechnikov missed half the year with an ACL, Guentzel was a deadline add. So Teuvo and Jarvis or Boeser and Miller? Or we can throw in Necas and Hoglander, too. Mikeyhev and Martinook? Stop. Aho did not play with linemates as talented as Pettersson did, there's no argument here

this is known as the Canes paradox. They systematicly have the best players at all positions yet are all underated. Their fowards numbers are not as high because of their defensive system, but the goalies are still the best and dont benefit from the defensive system.

I’m always going to say Aho and Slavin are better just because, but saying Andersen is better than Demko because he had a .932 in like 12 games this season is just silly

Except Aho played significantly more minutes at 5v5 with both Svech and Guentzel than Pettersson did with Miller. Pettersson’s 4 most common linemates by total minutes were Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Hoglander, and Boeser. Do you really think those 4 are more talented than Jarvis, Teravainen, Svechnikov, and Guentzel?

Slavin had less than half of Hughes' point last year, and thinking Hughes is a defensive liabilty or not good is such a casual take. Hughes is clearly the superior player and it isn't close. Also, if the Hurricanes had Demko they prob beat the Rangers

AND if he weren’t injured lmao

Kotkaniemi clears all

Doesn't even have a comeback for facts, shocker.

I don't think it's a paradox... the defensive system does suppress chances and offense but it doesn't help goalies stats sometimes because a lot bigger proportion of our chances are high-danger chances which cancels out whatever effect the shot suppression has... Our GAA tends to be lower but our SV% tends to be right along the league average... like

Pyotr: 2.33 .911
Demko: 2.45 .918

i get what you are saying, i guess advance dtats could tell a more realistic picture. All im saying is there is this narrative that its the best defensive system, with the best defensive corp in the nhl, which impies less high danger chances too yet it shouldnt affect their goalies performance

Hughes is very average defensively. Slavin is the best DFD in hockey, there's not even a debate about this. Hughes' offense is not as good as Slavin's defense, and Slavin's offense is probably better than Hughes' defense. Certainly analytically anyway.

Carolina don't, because Demko was hurt! If they had a competent head coach they win that series though

That gap between Slavin and Hughes offensively is 55 points! That is an all star level offensive dman sized chasm...between them. Hughes is also a top level defender in terms of shot suppression. Dom's model has Hughes at a +5 and Slavin at +7 for defensive metrics. Offensive Hughes +21 Slavin +8. Not that close.

Andersen and Demko has similar output. Andersen was injured this yr while Demko was a Vezina finalist. Not hard to pick who won that.

Aho had his best yr and had the same points as Pettersson who was pretty bad this yr. Second half of the season he was lost. By who was better from January it's easily Aho. Who has been better ever, ie higher realistic ceiling it's Pettersson without question. Petey has a 102 point season. Doms model Petey +16 offense +3 Defense. Aho +14 offense +3 defense. Similar players currently, edge to Petey on high end.

Petey doesn't play with Miller and Boeser they play together on a different line. Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Lafferty, Hoglander were his most common linemates. Not even an argument vs Jarvis, Tera, Svech, Guentzel.

0/4

One more to add. Is Scott Morrow better than Cale Makar? Canes fans...Yes.

Slavin's a DFD, Points are not a fair comparable here. Otherwise, I can simply point to Slavin's godly defensive ability and it's debate over. Slavin is the best DFD in hockey, the gap between them defensively is larger than the gap between them offensively. This is the Slavin-Josi debate but with Canadian fans. Slavin is better. He's a better all around player, and he's better at the defensive side of the game, and he's proven that over a prolonged period, not just a one-season wonder.

Aho played with worse linemates in a much more defensive system, and didn't even have his best year. The year the pandemic cut, where he was on pace for 45 goals, was his best year. EP40's never come close to his goalscoring production from that season, and Aho (while injured) outproduced EP40 when he finally got a semi-decent linemate while Pettersson played with Miller and Boeser. Aho's also better defensively, again, not close. EP40 has outproduced Aho once.

Demko .915, Andersen .932. Simple answer here, Freddie. Freddie will never get nominated for the Vezina, he had a .922 2 years ago and wasn't even a finalist, that's a JOKE of a way to try and assess this. Stop.

The two most used lines Petterson was on? Miky - EP40 - Hoglander, EP40 - Miller - Boeser. So that, or Jarvis, Necas and Teuvo, Svech missed half the year and Guentzel played less than a quarter of the season with Carolina, forget Aho.

Morrow was a better UMass Minuteman than Makar, as he broke the school records Makar set, so if that's what you're referring to, then yeah, fair take.

You see, Kotkaniemi actually had the highest xGFPGHJKL/60 of any forward in the NHL this season. Therefore, Kotkaniemi>>McDavid

The gap between Hughes and Slavin offensively is bigger than the gap defensively

Anderson .895 in the playoffs, Demko .917 in the playoffs and a Vezina candidate. Simple answer here

Aho played with Jarvis, Teuvo, Svech, and Guentzel as his 4 most common linemates. Pettersson’s were Mikheyev, Hoglander, Kuzmenko, and Boeser. I don’t know why that’s so hard to get through your head. Miller was Pettersson’s 7th most common linemate. Pettersson has had a 100 point season, Aho has never had a 90 point season. They have similar defensive stats despite Aho playing in the best defensive system in the NHL

Caniac has a tendency to sit behind his computer staring at microstats all day instead of actually watching hockey

Slavin is better defensively I think thats accepted. Hughes is better offensively that is accepted. It's the margins. I provide some evidence for you. How are points not a fair comparable? I've showed and eluded to how the gap defensively is smaller than you are suggesting do you have any data to support your claim?

The Canucks play one of the most defensive systems in the NHL. Im not sure how much more defensive Carolina could be.
39 goals is not even close to the 45 you projected Aho might get but never did? Petey was on pace for 50 the first half of this season haha
Not better defensively either. Not sure where you got that from.

You don't get nominated for the Vezina when you play 16 games. Demko was 2nd in the league GSAX. Andersen also had an .895 in the playoffs. Sample size for him this yr was just too small.

Teravainen Aho Svech 226 mins together
Guentzel Aho Jarvis 181 mins together

Kuz Petey Mikhey 181
Pettersson Miller Boeser 123
Lafferty Petey Mikhey 103

There is there most common roughly 400 mins linemates. Aho with a distinct advantage. Lafferty is a 4th liner as is Mikheyev. Petey played about 1/4 of those (not total) with Boeser and Miller. Aho played all his minutes with solid top 6 or better players.

Yup thats what I was looking for Morrow is indeed better. Love it.

Natural stat trick, if you want a source.
Slavin's better, Hughes' unsustainable offense doesn't keep him above Slavin, great season, not one of the leagues best LD.


Demko's postseason was 1 whole game. Andersen was fine, Demko watched from the sofa. If you want to say Andersen's save percentage is invalid because he only played 20 regular season games, you can't use anything from the postseason since Demko played 1 whole game.

Look at 5 on 5. Aho's most common are Jarvis, Teuvo, and a distant Svech in 3rd. Pettersson's are Boeser, Miller, Kuzmenko, Hoglander and Mikheyev... this isn't a conversation. Svech coming off an ACL, Teuvo playing with a permanently distorted hand, or Miller, Boeser, and a Hoglander shooting 20%?

Morrow was better for UMass. That's just... true

Also if you look at total minutes played across all lines, Pettersson played more with Hoglander, Lafferty, and Garland more than he played with Miller (as well as more minutes with Kuz, Mikheyev, and Boeser than Miller who you listed in the line combos)

Look at Pettersson’s most common linemates. It’s Mikheyev, Hoglander, Kuzmenko, and Boeser as the clear top 4. Then Garland and Lafferty followed by Miller in a distant 7th

Then look at Aho’s linemates. The clear top 4 are Jarvis, Teravainen, Svech, and Guentzel

That shows they are similar defensive players at 5v5. Now do 5v4 offensive. Slavin is so good offensively he can't even make first unit pp. This despite yrs of opportunities and never working. Again not even to bash him overly he's great all arounder but not great offensively. Hence why he can't run a PP. Which of course is huge factor in how good a dman you are offensively. You're head is in the sand on this one.

Point about 930 save % was small sample, just like the playoff .895. Not that Demko played better in the playoffs he played one game of course. Point is you have to shoulder the load of a starting goalie and play 50 odd games with that type of save % for it to count. I can cherry pick any number of goalies save % who played 6 games. 16 games doesn't even meet the threshold of a backup goalie which would be 20 games.

This is getting tiresome. I literally just showed the minutes 5v5 for Aho and Petey. I love how you have every excuse in the book for his linemates. Injuries, hangnails what have you. And yet none of that can be happening elsewhere. Reality is Guentzel is the best linemate and he played with him the most. Petey literally played 3/4 of the time with bottom 6 level players and you're still arguing.

Like Lafferty Aho Mikhheyev would be better than Tera Petey Svech ahah See how silly that it.

I forgot Morrow won not 1 but 2 Hobey Bakers

Thats common knowledge

Offensively, you can’t compare Hughes to Slavin. It’s like comparing an apple to an orange. Hughes is better offensively, Slavin wins on defense. Demko is better right now, but I think PK ends up being better in the long run. Freddy gets beat here by both. Aho and EP40 are quite comparable.
Don’t let the delusions of one fan who is widely known as a troll affect your opinions on the rest of the fanbase.