Still no from Detroit....... Again

pick any other D prospect instead of Kleven and sens probably accept

Despite what 95% of this website that do not watch Kotkaniemi will tell you, he's not been a bad player. I doubt Carolina even listen to offers given how good value his deal is and he's signed long term. At worst, he's the long term 3C, but he's shown flashes of being a sparkling 2C. You're better off trying to get Staal or Drury, because this management group adores the Finn. The only time his name has even come up in rumors was when they were trying to land Pettersson, and for that, yeah he should be on the dang table.

That said, if they were going to listen on him, it's going to take more than they paid to get him. They paid a 1st and a 3rd, a 2nd isn't remotely close enough for that level of control of such a good young player.

How about KK + something small for Smith and Graves retained 1.5 million?

Would Carolina really have any interest in Graves? Figured they have better LD to bring up than him and he also seems like a horrible fit for the team's system. He's slow as hell and frankly other than his reach, I have yet to see what he does above average.

Take out the 2 picks, switch Berggren with Fabbri and you can even keep Bemström. Then at least it gets considered. What do you think?

I want nothing to do with Rust's contract as he is getting paid over 5 million for 4 4 more years. Yzerman has spoken about flexibility and with more young kids coming up on their 2nd contracts, would rather have them at lesser amounts than a 31yo how is going to decline.

Because he's been around for 6 full seasons, subconsciously one thinks of Kotkaniemi as mid-career, but he turns only 24 in the summer. Tage Thompson's breakout year with the Sabres occurred when he turned 24; Adrian Kempe, 25. I think that Carolina will take the long (patient) view with him. Even if he never makes it into the top 6, his team-friendly contract makes him completely worth his cap hit.

Like another poster has mentioned with TNT and Kempe, Canes will just wait and be patient with KK. Worst case scenario he ends up being the Staal replacement, whereas best case the Canes have their long term 2C. Both are good options for the Canes. If KK can find offensive consistency throughout the middle 40 games of the season, he will be just fine and will be able to put up 50-70 point seasons.

The only way that KK is available is if they are packaging him for a massive C upgrade, much like how he was rumored to be in the package for Petterson.

Be prepared for a dizzying array of conflicting responses on KK. Nobody has a clue what the canes will do with him.

KK is not a 50-70 point guy…I was with you until that statement. He’s a polarizing player and it’s okay for all of us to have different views on him. However, he does not have the on ice personality to be a consistent point producer. We would be happy if he was a 40-50 point middle six player.

I hope he works out, but right now it’s hard to see.

I’m still optimistic, though. He probably won’t be a 60-70 point guy, although he still has that level of potential.

The only thing I disagree with here is that the 4.82m cap is team friendly and worth being patient for. The other points are valid. I do have some concerns with his personality being that of a consistent point producer or goal scorer.

There is a real possibility that cap hit prevents the Canes from spending in other areas while they wait. You can actually make the argument that the next offseason is the peak of the pain of that contract.

He needs to be benched after every game he doesn’t take at least 5 shots. He’s allergic to shooting the puck, and for a guy with a great shot and a team who values shots, gotta fix that.

here are my thoughts.

His speed and skating stats arent that far off from Orlov.
He wont be required to be the best LHD on the team and likely have more O zone time here than he did in NJ which should mitigate some of his issues.
We need just a solid LHD guy to eventually cover Morrow's likely defensive issues on the 3rd pairing, be able to take some hard draws as we integrate into the group, and for us to have 2 lefties in the system when Nikishin takes over the 2LD spot in 25-26.
at 3 million, that isnt a bad number for him for what we would ask him to do

Id probably do it if you switched out Rakell for R. Smith! Just don’t like the term on Rakells contract really

Sure just keep Korpisalo then. Because no one is taking that contract without assets coming back or cap hit going out.

Kind of funny, considering that at the start of the season, when he would shoot he was getting points.

Graves isn't close to the best LHD on PIT. Pettersson is and has been for quite a few years. Graves was never expected to be the 1LD either. He was expected to play 2LD competently though and really he looks and gets deployed like a 3LD half the time. He's not getting particularly heavy D Zone deployment either. Both Letang and Karlsson are elite with Pettersson and become mediocre pairings with Graves. Graves is the issue. His mobility and offensive aptitude are worse than I expected. He isn't particularly good in either zone or in transition. Not a bad player, but not close to worth his contract. Just a JAG of no real on ice value and poor cap hit.

where are you pulling these usage rate from?
NST has graves as the lowest O zone start percentage of the top 4 defenders of Pittsburgh by a good margin. Evolving Hockey has Graves at 0.6% lower ice time against QoC, which over 1000 minutes equates to 6 minute difference.
Graves seems to the be issue defensively in their system playing tougher minutes. I dont think Carolina will be some magic fix but he should be solid playing a 3rd fiddle role against much easier matchups and more time getting O zone draws. Graves isnt perfect but 3 million is a much better value for him playing 3LD and PK minutes than his role and cost in Pittsburgh. It was obvious last year that NJ's system was propping up his value but the carolina system should do more of the same. Outside of Seeley and Forsmark, we do not have a lot of lefties that have any chance of coming over to battle for the 3LD spot (im saying 3LD spot because Nikishin will get the 2LD spot). In about 2 more off-seasons, 3 million for a 3LD wont be bad money and he'll already have time to get used to the system.

Well Rakell and Smith have the same cap hit, was more thinking the pens keep or move Rakell in a separate trade.

From NST. He gets the worst deployment of the top four because he isn't doing anything to create any offense. Plenty of the depth dmen get worse deployment. Sullivan has demoted Gravaes multiple times to the bottom pairing this season and I have NEVER seen Sullivan improve his opinion on a player. Only further degrades from here.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20232024&thruseason=20232024&stype=2&sit=ev&score=all&stdoi=oi&rate=r&team=PIT&pos=D&loc=B&toi=250&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

Obviously the purpose of the posted trade is for offsetting risky contracts to be swapped in Korpisalo and Rakell. Removing one of those contracts from the proposal defeats the purpose of the entire deal. Smith is a rental so he is no long term risk.

"Despite my constant homerism and stockholm syndrome with that horrific contract, he is an underperforming 3rd liner with terrible analytics this season"

If the whole purpose of the deal is to exchange bad contracts, I’d just keep the cheaper one in Korpisalo and hope for a bounce back. Goalies are weird anyway, one season there great, next they suck. Rather take that risk than paying Rakell until he’s 35.