Does that apply to the players or to the leadership? Shanahan/Keefe being the ones that have been in those roles long enough to get scrutinized.

I assume players, could be leadership I guess but they should shake up the players, no question

The issue is idk if they are willing to let Marner walk for nothing

Yes there's trading but he's got a big fat NMC and idk if he's in the mood to waive

He may just go I will play out the final year play with Matthews finally get 100 points than cash out this summer with with TOR or somewhere else


I honestly think the plan is they are waiting for JT's deal to be up then. Marner they will wait and see how the season plays out including playoffs

I don't even think Marner would be that opposed to a trade at this point tbh.

And if he refuses a trade, just scratch him until he gives them a list of teams he would accept a trade to.

My opinion is that in order to truly facilitate a Marner trade, the best way to achieve it would be to make a three team trade.

They should've moved Marner in 2020 lmao. By 2020 it was already obvious that it wasn't working and that their D-core was dog****

Imma just die on the hill that Toronto will come back and win this series.

They’re better, have played better than not, and there’s a reasonable chance they get healthy fast, benefiting from extra offday. Each day after is presumably healthier. If Boston had beat them convincingly while they were without I’d think different.

Those dudes have been through too much to cave, and they’ve been too consistently good. You can’t do those things by accident.

If they don’t even put up a fight tho - ya gotta break it up.

Like last year - if I had felt Tampa was the better team, I would have kept that belief to the end, because that entire Tampa leaf series was tilted to Tampa a bit, but the leafs prevailed. Maybe Boston ends it, but it won’t take much for the momentum to flip.

Its up to him but in terms of future money his smart move would be staying playing with Matthews than cashing out

And if u scratch him cant field a team as 10m in the pressbox for 82 games wont boad well and you will ruin your rep with Free agents

Why would they want to come after they saw the treatment of Marner by management trying to bully him to waive.

He's probs playing that final year out here then either extending or walking

You have more faith than me and the vast majority of leafs nation. This core just does not have what it takes to win in the playoffs for whatever reason. I’m fully expecting them to pull of miraculous victories in games 5 and 6 and put up and absolutely pathetic game 7 effort. I’d love to be wrong but I just don’t see it

It doesn’t hurt me to hope. My teams already out I don’t blame y’all for avoiding that specific feeling right now.

I really, really hope you’re right lol

Disagree all you want.

The Leafs would be better under Dubas, and Dubas would have acquired Karlsson.

And the Leafs would be better with Karlsson right now.
They are starving for a QB.

Karlsson would have been the biggest mistake in history lets have 5 double digits oh boy....

Pitts PP finished 15.3% with him on it and they had Crosby, Malkin, etc.

Leafs dont need a QB they need a new ****ing PP coach lul

Boucher has them running at 7% these playoffs.

Should have just gave Spencer Carbery the biggest assistant coach paycheck in NHL history to stay as the PP coach his system worked

Pretty sure the Leafs have the lowest generated offence from the D in the entire playoffs. If I recall the statline correctly I read it was like what a 0.44 points per game or something or 5v5 offence.

Yknow what happens when you have offence from the backend?

Less pressure on the forwards.

Every cup winner has a QB, you cannot argue that.

Makar, Pietrangelo x 2, Theodore if you want too, Montour carried the (if we wanna include them) Panthers backend last year (if it ain’t Ekblad), Sergachev/ Hedman. The list goes on and on.
Heiskanen, Hughes on other contenders, Slavin and Burns (QB), and so on.

Rielly isn’t necessarily a QB, he’s a player I’d want on my team no doubt. But you watch the Leafs play and tell me you enjoy watching that backend move the puck?

It’s embarrassing. It has nothing to do with the PIT powerplay either lmfao. That statline is quite literally irrelevant.

ALL the Leafs shots that aren’t from Rielly on the backend are muffins and missing the net.



So Rielly is the only actual D man on their backend but he’s also responsible for hard match ups so he can’t play like a true OFD QB. Which is why, like COL, VAN, STL, CAR, TBL and so, you see teams run a “QB” and then another top pair.

I’m sorry but you cannot sit here and get me to believe dumping Brodie (like PIT did with Petry; not signing Reavo and Kampf and replacing them with Karlsson would have been worse than what you watching.

Even more so this rings true with how pedestrian the Leafs offence looks when Matthews is playing poorly, which we’re seeing right now in this series.

If Matthews isn’t going - the Leafs have looked like Washington almost lol.

Just look at EDM.

They have Ekholm (Rielly), and Bouchard (who would be Karlsson). And we’ve seen how pivotal it’s been for EDM to have a QB and then also a Number 1.

Karlsson would have been the Leafs QB and Rielly would have been their number one, and arguably play better because he wouldn’t have to be the only guy in the backend who knows how to play the puck.

Karlsson is 33 soon 34 years old and was making 11.5m

Yes last year he had 100 points but look at how he did in Pitt heck they missed the playoffs

And have you not watched playoff Rielly. Sure this year's been quiet but TBL can tell yah when he was going he was going and heck in game 6 vs. FLA tried to put TOR on his back to try for the win. To bad NHL dont got modern tech for tracking pucks as he for sure scored 2 that game. Plus Rielly in less playoff games has more playoff goals than EK.....

PP with him last year playoffs was at 25%. This year with a new PP coach its dropped as Boucher's system sucks. Karlsson being there dont change much lul. Look at Pitts PP under him 15.3%

In the end Karlsson was the last thing we needed. If we need a guy to generate offense we can go sign Montour or Skeji this summer both dont cost assets and wont be even close to 10m lul

Would have just been a waste of assets, better thing would have just been giving Carbery the biggest assistant coach contract in NHL history to stay

Karlsson cost a single first. He wasn’t expensive at all. Especially since the Leafs should be a contender that first could/ would be 18-32.

And you keep bringing up quite literally irrelevant PP statline from a regular season, and again Karlsson ain’t the reason the Pens missed.

You can say “Pit” this “Pit” that, the conversation isn’t about PIT.

It’s about how bad the Leafs backend is, and more notably about how bad they are at generating offence when Matthews isn’t going.

And if you actually read my post; I didn’t slight Rielly, I called him a Number 1.

In the end as I keep telling yah would just be a waste of assets. A 1st for a soon 34 year old making double digits is a no thanks

If we want more offense from the blue line just go sign someone in FA Montour and Skjei would be more than fine and cost us no assets to go get.

Thats the better solution right now as for TOR should keep the bigger assets and use em for younger players if they want to experiment like a potential Necas trade or something

You also refer to Montour (33 points this year?)
And he’s 30?
Skeji is what 31? (I believe like 45 points this year, a career high!!!!).

So your picking worse players, one’s having a career year, who are nearly the same age as Karlsson, both going to cost 5-7.5m.

Karlsson currently at 10m (where the Sharks took back a cap dump in Hoffman, and the Pens ALSO dumped Petry).

He could been 8-9 for the Leafs likely costing a prospect on top of the leaf’s potential late first.

Montour and Skeji are easily bigger gambles than Karlsson who had a a slow year and struggled to fit in with the Pens, and still put up nearly 60p.

I find it fascinating Leafs fans are so fine with the continued flop instead of actually taking a chance.

Montour at 5.5m vs. Karlsson at 10m?

Montour 9 playoff goals total EK 8 goals.

Who cares with all the cap saving lul

And Montour aint having a career year lul.


Your trying to justify us to waste assets to go get a 33 soon 34 year old guy making with ret 10m

No thanks

Save the assets and go get the free agents who can do similar for less.

Skjei or Montour would be fine

Montour at 30 points VS Karlsson potentially 60-100points?
(Only pass 30 points once in his career) vs HOF
A down year for Karlsson is more then 95% of Montour career.

Yeah I’m chilling with the HOFer

It’s not even a conversation
It’s so bewildering seeing Karlsson hate when people don’t even know what they’re talking about.

EK got 100 points with the SJS who had no cares in the world but to try and get him to do it and it was a one time wonder lets look at him in Pitt

82 gp 11 goals 45 assists 56 points

Montour

66 gp 8 goals 25 assists 33 points.

16 less games played and only a 23 point differential. If he played the entire season probs gets 50-60 points

Again for a 33 year soon 34 year old making double digits best to stay clear keep the assets and go get similar guys for less money. As when the production drops and the player slow down happens that Anchor will sink the ship. Montour at 5.5m in Toronto would probs avg 50-60 points and be fine best of all cost us 0 assets to get and be more manageable. Thats the smarter move

That’s an assumption that he would have put up more.

Under your assumption of Montour being a regular 50-60 player in TOR ;

We could then compare and assume Karlsson could be a regular 60-90p player if we don’t even consider his 100 point season (which he literally was playing hockey by himself in SJ).

Again your missing the point so wont bother

In the end it = waste of assets and factoring Karlsson's age and history best to stay clear despite what he once was

Smart move to stay clear by management as from what we saw in Pitt he was not a solution especially at that price

Get the cheaper player who wont cost you anything and who can help the blue line's offense improve

You’re missing the point though. I’m arguing your point and you repeat yourself / move on or ignore statements.

Your assumption / choice :

Trelivings team is a good choice by management ( aka move on from Dubas who wanted to continue being aggressive )

Go after UFA gambles on RD ( yeah the UFA history of successful big signings is shiney clean )

My point :

Dubas ain’t that bad

- Karlsson having a bad year is still better than Skeji’s entire career and Montours almost entirely
- Montour is a regular 30 point guy who boomed last year and returned back in line
- You criticize Karlsson as a massive gamble yet signing Montour and Skeji are going to each be 4-6 year MINIMUM deals at a minimum AAV of 5.5; I would bet Montour and Skeji are both USA players currently (one in the sunshine state) won’t sign in Toronto for less than 6-7.5m
- Karlsson at 8-10m QB vs two UFA gambles at 6-7.5m (for TERM)
- UFA LONG TERM SIGNINGS ALWAYS GOING SWIMMINGLY
{he says sarcastically}
- additionally these signings would take place THIS year, not at the start of the Season like Karlsson. Which means you’re accepting this year is a throwaway and waiting to fix an issue this offseason.


Your point is that of bias and blind criticism of Karlsson and praise of the other two signings yet you fail to actually provide any evidence other than subjective opinion and I just state saying:

Karlsson is a bad choice for the Leafs and smart avoidance
=
The same thing as signing Montour and Skeji to 6 year high AAV deals

If you can’t see how signing both those guys to long term, high AAV deals isn’t the same thing as just betting on your core + adding Karlsson: then that is missing the point.

I find my arguments quite fair.

Look at Dubas first year in Pitt man basically wasted an amazing Crosby season. Him trading for EK in TOR would have been a disaster. Especially if he traded one of the big 4 to make it work

Again you keep missing it Karlsson is soon gonna be 34 and is with ret making 10m and would cost TOR assets to get. You go oh Montour or Skjei make 6-7 who cares thats still cheaper than EK and they younger and cost 0 assets to get.

Save the assets and go get the free agents who play a similar role, are younger, will be cheaper, and wont cost us any assets


Montour at 5.75-7m x 4 or 5 year deal is still better than going and wasting assets on EK who will be 37 when that deal's done.


Staying clear was the wise move by Brad as if we did that trade oh god help us lul. Anchor would have broke the ship.