Keefe isn’t the issue. The roster is. Leaf fans really need a reality check these days.

I agree Keefe should go, problem is he holds the nhl record for best win percentage in his first 300 games by a wide margin but I want him gone for sure

So let’s blame the best coach in team history for a roster that has proven for 9 years that it can’t get the job done? .. that doesn’t seem smart at all. Hold the players accountable. Give Keefe an actual NHL defence and goalie before you even think of firing him.

It is absolutely Keefe. He's not a good coach and he never changes anything. He's won as much as he has because of the core.

So when the team wins we say it’s because of the players but when the team loses it’s the coaches fault? .. wow. Talk about no accountability.

He won as much as he did because of the core. Last year was a good team but he hindered them in the playoffs once again. Should have fired him then. Now he wins off the backs of Matthews, Marner and Nylander. He's got to go

Agree 100% they guy is being carried by this team but he’s dragging them down

Sure the players have to be held accountable but the same issues continue to be the same issues and is often masked by the core doing what they can do. Keefe has been downright bad at handling young players. He has his favorites and it costs them. He's been out coached every playoff round he's ever been in in the NHL.

Treliving also deserves a tonne of heat. He's done very little to help this team. Klingberg and Reaves? Has Bertuzzi been a 5 million dollar player? Domi costs the team as much as he helps, often it's a net loss with him. Kampf at 2+ million?

Some things are out of everyone's control. Woll got hurt, I never believed that Samsonov would be as good as he was last year, but this has been far worse than I had feared.

However, the teams system isn't working, teams have figured Keefe out and he hasn't changed a thing. The defence is not good but Gio and Brodie get so much playing time while others have out performed them. Liljegren is just now getting some bigger minutes and responsibilities and while he still needs to improve, he's been good. Should have had these minutes from the start of the season. Timmins has been really good when he plays, sure he is risky at times but he wins his minutes and is a net benefit. Robertson has been good this year as well but Keefe just doesn't change anything. He's openly admitted he doesn't trust the new players. He's not a good coach. At least not what this team need.

I wish Cooper was available.

So has Treliving and Shanahan but Keefe has to go

Why wait till the Leafs fight for a wild card spot. Fire him now.

Shanahan is the bigger problem and has to be fired and then any sane President we hire would fire Keefe instantly and the PP coach.

It’s hilarious how oblivious Leafs fans are 😂

EVERY coach has their favourites. If you play to their style, they give you more ice time. When you don’t, you don’t get ice time. It’s pretty simple. Keefe is an offensive minded coach who likes to push the play. The young players make too many mistakes defensively and that’s why they’re benched more. Robertson is atrocious defensively, like I think he’s the worst player in the league at hitting the red line and getting the puck deep. He just can’t do it. There’s way too much junior in his game still and he hasn’t adapted to the NHL well at all, don’t be fooled by his point totals. Liljegren gets out worked and beat in the corners in his own end all the time. Turns the puck over and causes scoring chances far too often. & Knies is missing defensive assignments what seems like every game for the last 3 weeks. So yeah, those types of plays deserve to be benched - it’s call accountability. When the roster is built up so much with 4 players you HAVE to play them more. That’s what they’re paid for. If he scratches or benches a $11M player it’s just not good use of the roster - that would call for a firing. From a business perspective, you have to get the most out of every penny spent and $11M needs to be on the ice a lot.

The Treliving heat is actually the funniest part of the comment - what was he supposed to do or what is he supposed to do now? Everyone in hockey called the Bertuzzi a great signing when it happened, and on a 1 year deal there was no risk to it. The numbers aren’t there but his play has still been great. Klingberg was brought in because he was something that the organization didn’t have, which is a right handed shooter from the point on the PP which changes the look. While it didn’t work out, only being a 1 year deal it was with very little risk. & Klingberg wasn’t even his first choice. He wanted Dumba. But Dumba wanted more money and term at the start of free agency and Treliving didn’t wanna wait. You can’t blame a guy for a player that doesn’t want to come to the team. Reaves was mainly brought in as a locker room guy cause there’s issues within the room. His contract is easily buriable in the minors so as much as the signing isn’t great, it’s an easy out. Domi has been exactly what he has always been. It’s not Treliving’s fault the fans expect more from a guy when he’s not that guy. Both him and Bertuzzi were brought in because of their playoff performances so it’s not even fair to judge them yet. & Kampf at $2.4M isn’t bad when you look at the cap percentage and the cap rising significantly over the term of his deal, the worst part of that contract is the MNTC but Kampf being a free agent had the leverage.

The goaltending has just been awful. There wasn’t anything available last summer and the goalie market via trade is insanely high right now. Jones and Samsonov have been garbage. Woll is a fragile piece of glass. If the team can’t get saves, you can’t blame the coach for a loss. Like the Leafs just dominated Vancouver for most of the game and scored 4 goals on 47 shots, that SHOULD be enough to win a game in the NHL. But Jones gave up 6 goals on 21 shots. That not even AHL level goaltending - they’re NHL goalies, stop the puck.

You say the team’s system isn’t working but it’s the same system Keefe has always had and it’s worked in the past. A close to .700 winning percentage is pretty elite for a coach.

The problem is the roster. Timmins isn’t that good, he’s so high risk that his reward isn’t worth the play. Liljegren needs to beef up and be able to take a hit to make a play. Brodie needs to stop jumping to make plays, it’s almost like he’s scared and just moves too quick and it makes him slow. Giordano is nothing more than a shot blocker. & Rielly has been so underrated it’s almost criminal - the guy does it all and has no help. The defence core is composed of one #1 guy, and a bunch of #5/6 guys. You cannot win with that in front of AHL level goaltending. Doesn’t matter if you’re Keefe or Jon Cooper. He openly admitted he doesn’t trust anyone because the roster is weak - it was a message to Treliving to get him some depth and defence that he can trust and that will perform better.

Treliving pretty much has his hands tied for the most part. Dubas screwed the team over when he knew he wasn’t coming back and traded away pretty much every significant trade asset the team had. McCabe was never worth the cost, neither was O’Reilly without an extension. And that screwed Treliving. How is he supposed to address the roster if he doesn’t have anything valuable to move? Teams don’t want Robertson. Or Timmins. Or anything Leafs fans offer on here. Every team asks for Toronto’s 1st round picks, and guys like Knies, Minten, Cowan, etc. and as of right now those aren’t available because Treliving is trying to build up the system so that they can bring in guys on ELC’s to address the depth because of the cap situation. Which leads to the biggest problem - Shanahan.

Shanahan made his bet on the core and not only doubled down, but triple down, quadrupled down, and so on.. for 9 years when it hasn’t worked. He was the one telling Dubas and Treliving to commit the big money to the core 4 when they knew other areas needed to be addressed. That’s the definition of insanity. You can not win with 4 guys taking up 53% of your cap - that’s on Shanahan.

The Shanaplan didn’t work. It’s time to fire him and move on. But a coach that has a track record of winning at every level he’s been at and at a high rate isn’t the issue. Stop blaming the coach. Hold the players accountable. They had the same issues under Babcock. It’s not the coach that’s the problem. You move on from Keefe now and he goes somewhere else and wins a cup within 2-4 years. Then people will be saying he shoulda stayed in Toronto.

He absolutely is at this point.

How many years of blown 3rd period leads can one endure? Last season Dubas threw the kitchen sink at this, and the results still lacked.

He cannot think inside the game (completely out coached in the playoffs). Player deployment is questionable at times; player usage even worse, and runs the snot out of the big 4 during an 82 games sched so they are conveniently burnt out when it matters.

His support staff is nothing short of phenomenal. I am a big Maholtra fan as a coach. Van Ryn came in with a very proven track record. So did Chynoweth. Then you get to Guy Boucher and former Jack Adams winner MacLean.

Great coaches find ways to win. Keefe cannot do this. Blame injuries, blame lack luster signings, but this boils down to a head coach that has an inability to get the most out of this roster outside the top 4.

I have been beating the fire Keefe drum for a few months.

He is not the guy to get them over the hump.

Threw the kitchen sink at him? Their defence was:
Rielly - Schenn
McCabe - Brodie
Giordano - Liljegren

… that’s a #1 guy. Maybe a #3/4 in Brodie last year (he’s regressed a ALOT this year), a #5 guy, and 3 #6 guys… how the hell does anyone expect a coach to win with a defence like that? Look at all the rosters of cup winning teams. Their defence is MUCH better than that. Fix the roster first. Give him someone he can rely on. Then if the same issues are there you can fire him.

The coach is the scapegoat too often. If the team gets saves at an actual NHL rate, we’re not even talking about this right not. The defence and goaltending is just awful. It’s AHL calibre.

I don't really understand how you can admit practically everything Treliving did in the off-season was bad, yet Keefe still needs to be fired? I can maybe understand this if you held this opinion after the Panther's series. Nonetheless, I really think this whole blame for Keefe is incredibly overblown. If we're being honest, no one on this site actually understands the details and intricacies of the game well enough to know if what's being done tactically is hurting the team. People are reactionary, and that's understandable. But his prior regular season success speaks for itself.

I also just want to say that a lot of this criticism for not playing certain players above others is a bit lazy of a take. Players will look better than others because of usage, situation, deployment, etc., and I don't think this is nearly acknowledged enough among the fanbase. Sure, Brodie's game has fallen off. But to think that this team would be in a better position if Liljegren was eating those minutes against that competition is blasphemous.

I also have NO IDEA where this "young player" development criticism came from. The Leafs have had like 2 rookie's in the last 5 years. Not to mention he's actually helped so many players elevate their games: Bunting, Engvall, Mikheyev, Sandin...

MAN.

THIS ROSTER ISNT GOOD. Like who tf do you want him to play and how would you want them to play??!?!

People just demand change without actually explaining what should/how...

It's just simple logic. Sheldon Keefe is our most successful coach in regular season history. Significant overhaul of new players over the off-season results in a worse team because of the coach???

When Woll went down, we knew it was going to be a TOUGH stretch. I thought it was abundantly clear he was masking a lot of the defensive player's mistakes. This fanbase is so ridiculous. Panthers are on a 4 game losing streak, LA who looked like a WAGON at the start of the season have won like 1 game in the past 10. You don't hear a word.

I'm honestly convinced that the negativity influenced by the media/fanbase has risen so high to a point it impedes the performance of the players. It just has to. You don't see this level of attention and scrutiny anywhere else in the league.

I haven't been a Keefe fan for a long time.... pretty dates the media being on his case. He has been out coached in the playoffs 5 years running, which essentially bangs home my point of his inability to think inside the game.

Sure, Woll going down was concerning but Jones has actually been good (shockingly so). But that is where you tighten uo defensively, change some thinking. He simply hasn't done that. I was floored he went outside the box and played Holmgren 18 minutes the other night.

For me the point where Keefe has past a best before date is just in how he manages games. It is beyond odd. The tools are in the box, he just doesn't know how to use them imo. And that has been an issue for a few years now as well.

No, this roster isn't great. But you figure it out and find ways to win. Plain and simple. See Tortarella, John in Philly. That is a coach. Getting the most out the collective. Buying into the programme.... because that roster isn't great either, but they are winning games.

Frankly, I don't care about him being the best regular season coach in team history. With that core 4 he should be.

What I care about is playoff success. That he has not provided. And there is absolutely nothing about this season despite the injuries that convince me otherwise.

And rhe change with this roster?

1. You play Bertuzzi more actually. His role is simple - get in the dirty areas, win puck battles and open up ice for JT and Nylander. Where is Stat line is disappointing, playing a player capable of doing what I think he should 2 minutes LESS a game than his career average is nuts. Let him.play through it. Simply his role. The production will come.

2. Liligren has rounded out nicely, but it's only after coming back for LTIR that he has seen his minutes increase. That should have happen last year in the 2nd half. It didn't.

3. Actually play Robertson. The 3rd line of Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok actually worked. Full stop.

4. Play Timmins..... is it that far fetched that you could rotate him, Giordano and maybe Brodie depnding on the opponent? Not at all. I mean if the logic in signing Klingberg (🤮) was to add offense to the back end, and Timmins can do just that, why is he glued to the press box?

5. Use Gregor on the PP. The guy can skate. He is a big body. He hits things. He is hard to move. Sounds like a perfect front-of-net experiment to me.

Instead, he continues to roll out the big 4 expecting a different result.

He won't, he'll struggle

1. Bertuzzi, Keefe, and anyone that watches hockey knows what his role is. Not sure where the TOI stat is from, but I'd have to assume that it's largely due to him not being on pp1, which is understandable considering we've had a top 5 pp for like 5 years now.

2. Liljegren had an incredible 1st half last year. The only reason he didn't see his role increase in the 2nd half is because he straight-up wasn't good. He lost his spot to Holl, and for good reason. He's also rarely thrived whenever given the chance to play in a bigger role. The way he played earlier tonight against the Canucks is a big example as to why he hasn't yet totally earned the trust of Keefe to be thrown into top-pairing minutes.

3. That third line is NOT good. Our third line hasn't been good all year. That's largely due to Max Domi. The bottom line is that Robertson, although skilled, isn't suitable for that role. There literally isn't a fit for him on this team. He just isn't a good fit with Domi. Their inability to play defense is just way too risky.

4. No idea why you're so obsessed with connor timmins. He's so mid.

5. Uhhhhhh... so you want to take away Bertuzzi from the front of the net on the PP? Talk about contradicting your first point lmaoo.

I agree

What do people think a new coach will accomplish with this roster, aside from the "new coach bump"?

Are the forwards going to score more?
Not likely enough to matter. They are already 6th in the NHL as a group. There's not a lot of room for improvement there.

Are the defense going to give up less?
There's room for improvement there, as they are mid-bottom third in shots, goals, HDSA, etc.
The question is whether that is a personnel issue, a goaltending issue, or a coaching issue.

I think you have to answer the goaltending question first when that group consists of a rookie with 30 games played and a guy who is almost a full 1.0 GAA and 0.6 SV% worse in the same number of games with the same team. Jones is a 3rd stringer who had a good 10 game stretch with 7 strong performances, but has returned closer to expectations in his last 4 starts.

That may be all it takes to get the rest of the team in line.
They could be giving up more high danger chances because they don't have the confidence in their goaltending to stop the less dangerous shots, just as an example.

This isn't like Edmonton, where a number of players were underperforming on top of their goaltending issues.
The players eventually returned to normal and that has allowed Skinner to regain his form.
That was happening with or without a coaching change (imo).

Not really the case in Toronto. There are not enough players underperforming, it's simply a lot of players who's normal performance is not enough.
That's to be expected when 60% of your team is made up of rookies and budget options.

There are legitimate reasons to believe a new coach may have more success in how he deploys his assets, but that impact won't be as great as believed.

I have been saying he should be fired since game 1 of the Florida series. Completely out coached until it was too late. The same thing kills this team time after time. And they never make any changes to their approach. Just keep doing it until it works. I knew Florida was a bad matchup, they thrive on quick strike offence and Keefe didn't change any game planning until they were down 3-0. He never adjusts, and he doesn't have the same calibre of reasonable forwards to rely on. He likely misses Engvall and Kerfoot. He just can't change anything