Take this team serious and make a push NOW

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Créé par: TerreriStepper

Équipe: 2023-24 Devils du New Jersey

Date de création initiale: 2 janv. 2024

Publié: 2 janv. 2024

Mode - plafond salarial: Accurate/Prorated

LTIR activée: Non

Journées à la saison: 192

Journées restantes: 107

Saison restante: 56%

Masse salariale projetée avant les jours restants

: 82 605 659 $

Description

The goal here is to try and present some possibilities for the Devils that emphasize a desire to actually start winning right now. It primarily focuses on salvaging this season and contending in the next. We cannot keep kicking the can down the road, and that is what we are doing by sticking with the status quo. Now is the time to contend, or at least to start playing meaningful games down the stretch. It will absolutely cost us, but nothing that will handicap us long term.

This iteration focuses on:
1) improving the goaltending position (the most obvious need). Here you get the reigning vezina winner, should be enough said right there. The difference should immediately put us right back into contention. You give up a lot (for a relatively short term deal), but we aren't re-building anymore, we need to start pushing the chips in and trying to win every season. This gives us two great shots at that (we are a team that is basically a goalie away from greatness). In the meantime it buys us time to evaluate Daws/Schmid, see what comes available, and perhaps even extend Ullmark)

2) Strengthen the defense (the second most important need) by adding a solid, physical, veteran defenseman. This should go a long way in terms of making up for an otherwise talented, but very green defensive corps. Again, we get this season + the next. Probably perfect in terms of making us competitive, but not tying us down in the future.

Finally, we compensate for the loss of Holtz by adding a fan favorite in Henrique, further emphasizing our commitment to winning now. For immediate term, it's a step up. That is a deadly top 9 by any estimation.

*** Note: The perspective here is largely about explicating the most I would be willing to give in each transaction. Obviously, the GM should try to get more for less, but if those negotiations fall through, and it's a matter of pulling off the trade as described vs nothing at all, then this is the furthest I'd go to pull the trade off. In other words, in a hypothetical world where the option is only to stand pat vs pull the trigger on the trade as listed, I'd go for the latter. Spare me the imaginary trades where we lose nothing and gain everything (Bastian + 5th for Saros, etc)

Transactions

NJD

Ullmark, Linus

BOS

Holtz, Alexander
Vanecek, Vitek (1 700 000 $ retained)
Choix de 3e ronde en 2025 (NJD)

Détails additionnels:

Boston: You get Holtz - an 8th overall in a recent draft - who has already been productive this year and is on an ELC for this year and the next, where worst case scenario he is on par for 20-25 goals and 40-50 points, not to mention what happens if he hits his potential, which could easily be a first line sniper (a ceiling he could certainly reach)

Meanwhile you get a goalie in return who put in a great performance last year and is still fairly young. He has obviously struggled in a starter role this year (behind an abysmal defense), but even if this is who he is, it's still a very respectable backup goalie, which is all you need. and of course he is coming in at under 2 mil.

You also get about 2 million in cap space, which Boston needs if it wants to sign UFA's next year.

And of course, on top of that you get a 3rd which is yet another asset.

It's a lot to give up for a year and a half of an admittedly elite goalie. I think it's fair.

NJD

Chychrun, Jakob

OTT

Siegenthaler, Jonas
Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (NJD)
Choix de 5e ronde en 2024 (NJD)

Détails additionnels:

A first round pick is a first round pick, for a player who is essentially a rental + 1 season.

Plus a veteran defenseman who has put up some great defensive numbers as recently as last year. Again, granted he has not performed as well this year (none of our defensive defenseman have, so take that for what it's worth). These are useful players to have around in order to facilitate the development on younger players.

The 5th is just a throw in. We can negotiate terms at the margins, but overall I think it's decent.

NJD

Henrique, Adam

ANA

Vilén, Topias
Choix de 2e ronde en 2025 (NJD)
Choix de 4e ronde en 2025 (NJD)

Détails additionnels:

A decent prospect and some picks for an older player who can produce but most likely will not generate much more interest. We can

Rachats de contrats

Cory Schneider: 2 000 000 $
Janne Kuokkanen: 325 000 $

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Vitek Vanecek: 1 700 000 $ (50%)

Frais appliqués

Ilya Kovalchuk: 250 000 $

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2024
2025
2026

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	83 500 000 $	79 658 844 $	422 500 $	4 690 000 $	3 841 156 $

Masse salariale proratée

Formation

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Bratt, Jesper 7 875 000 $4 388 672 $ AD, AG UFA - 8	Hughes, Jack 8 000 000 $4 458 333 $ C UFA - 7	Toffoli, Tyler 2 125 000 $1 184 245 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
Meier, Timo 8 800 000 $4 904 167 $ AG, AD UFA - 8	Hischier, Nico 7 250 000 $4 040 365 $ C UFA - 4	Mercer, Dawson 894 167 $498 312 $ (400 000 $$400K) AD, C RFA - 1
Henrique, Adam 1 456 250 $811 556 $ AG, C M-NTC UFA - 1	McLeod, Michael 1 400 000 $780 208 $ C RFA - 1	Palat, Ondrej 6 000 000 $3 343 750 $ AG, AD NMC UFA - 4
Smith, Brendan 1 100 000 $613 021 $ DG/DD, AG UFA - 1	Haula, Erik 3 150 000 $1 755 469 $ C, AG NTC UFA - 3	Bastian, Nathan 1 350 000 $752 344 $ AD UFA - 2
	Lazar, Curtis 1 000 000 $557 292 $ AD, C UFA - 2	Tierney, Chris 775 000 $431 901 $ C UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Hughes, Luke 925 000 $515 495 $ (925 000 $$925K) DG/DD RFA - 2	Marino, John 4 400 000 $2 452 083 $ DD UFA - 4	Ullmark, Linus 5 000 000 $2 786 458 $ G M-NTC UFA - 2
Chychrun, Jakob 4 600 000 $2 563 542 $ DG/DD M-NTC UFA - 2	Nemec, Simon 918 333 $511 779 $ (3 250 000 $$3M) DD RFA - 3	Schmid, Akira 850 833 $474 162 $ (57 500 $$58K) G RFA - 1
Bahl, Kevin 1 050 000 $585 156 $ DG RFA - 2	Miller, Colin 1 850 000 $1 030 990 $ DD UFA - 1	Daws, Nico 850 833 $474 162 $ (57 500 $$58K) G RFA - 1

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
	Nosek, Tomas 1 000 000 $557 292 $ AG, C UFA - 1	Hamilton, Dougie 9 000 000 $5 015 625 $ DD NMC UFA - 5

2 janv. à 19 h 24

Claesson4Norris

Rejoint: janv. 2018

Messages: 17,108

Mentions "j'aime": 12,130

Chychrun is Ottawa's best Dman, and he's a diehard Ottawa guy, he's not going anywhere

SomeonesOffended, sensonfire et TerreriStepper a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 25

NHLfan10506

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 40,861

Mentions "j'aime": 18,603

I think defense is our primary need, so swapping Siegenthaler for Chychrun may not be step in right direction. Move Bahl maybe…but Siegen is part of the cure, not part of the illness.

TerreriStepper et Smitty426 a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 25

sensonfire

Rejoint: févr. 2021

Messages: 11,937

Mentions "j'aime": 4,478

1. If the Devils make the 2024 ECF, your trade for Chychrun would be illegal.

2. Siegenthaler was acquired by the Devils for a 3rd.

Chychrun was acquired by the Sens for #12 overall in 2023 + two 2nds.

From Ottawa's perspective, this is ...

#12 overall in 2023
two 2nds

versus

a 2024 1st you might not even have
a 3rd
a 5th

3. There is almost no offensive upside to Siegenthaler's game while Chychrun is an elite two-way defenceman.

4. Chychrun's family is based in the Ottawa Valley and he should have no problem signing an extension in Ottawa.

(i.e. 8 million x 8 like Chabot and Sanderson)

5. Ottawa declines.

TerreriStepper, SomeonesOffended et AnonymousSensFan a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 26

NHLfan10506

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 40,861

Mentions "j'aime": 18,603

Quoting: Claesson4Norris

Chychrun is Ottawa's best Dman, and he's a diehard Ottawa guy, he's not going anywhere

Same for Siegenthaler here. He wanted to come here when he asked out of Washington. He took a discounted contract to stay long-term. He fits here.

If it ain’t broke….

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2 janv. à 19 h 31

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

Rejoint: mars 2017

Messages: 138

Mentions "j'aime": 26

Quoting: Claesson4Norris

Chychrun is Ottawa's best Dman, and he's a diehard Ottawa guy, he's not going anywhere

Fair enough, that's why I posted this, to get a sense of the room. Sounds like there isn't really a trade to be had here. Not a big deal.

Thanks!

SomeonesOffended a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 32

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: NHLfan10506

Same for Siegenthaler here. He wanted to come here when he asked out of Washington. He took a discounted contract to stay long-term. He fits here.

If it ain’t broke….

Yah this one hurt me to write. I personally love Seigs so I wouldn't mind keeping him. I don't think that Bahl moves the needle much from the other side. Might not be a big deal, perhaps target a more obtainable goal, like Tanev?

NHLfan10506 a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 33

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: sensonfire

Great points, I think that I definitely underestimated the cost here. And appreciate the note about the draft pick being an illegal trade, good catch, don't know how I missed that. thanks!

sensonfire et AnonymousSensFan a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 19 h 44

NHLfan10506

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 40,861

Mentions "j'aime": 18,603

Quoting: TerreriStepper

Chychrun is great, but I think there are other options that can fill in our holes. We need better puck control in d-zone. Someone who can hang onto it an extra half-second as forwards get up ice. Someone who can complete a pass crossing into n-zone…maybe connect an occasional stretch pass. Severson was great at this. Graves was good at it. Both brought calm to start of our transitions. We owned 5v5 play because of it. Smith couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn. Bahl puts the puck in his teammates skates.

Hanifin would would be the best of the available options. But sometimes it’s as simple as a more veteran precesnse. I had expected it some from Miller, but he doesn’t play enough.

As for goalies, I think we put too much on them. If it were merely a goalie problem, we’d see more soft goals. Instead we are seeing higher quality chances against us. Our save percentage on soft goals (or medium and low danger chances) is identical to last year. (In 2021-22, when we have eight goalies dress, it was the soft goals that piled up).

2 janv. à 19 h 45

NHLfan10506

Rejoint: mai 2019

Messages: 40,861

Mentions "j'aime": 18,603

Quoting: sensonfire

1. The Devils can trade their 1st this year. If we make ECF, it doesn’t render the trade illegal, there would be a condition that moves 2024 1st to 2025 1st (if our 2024 1st goes to San Jose).
2. Siegenthaler was traded for 3rd…and the next season he broke out (was top-5 defensive WAR dman). Since then, he extended long term. So the old price is a little moot.
3. We have offensive dmen…we need better dzone exits. Moving the puck out of own zone has really been our Achilles heel.
4. Chychrun works in Ottawa; so
5. They should

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2 janv. à 20 h 9

#10

Celtics21

Rejoint: mai 2023

Messages: 3,984

Mentions "j'aime": 1,251

I’d be open toUllmark for Holtz and a second round pick

I’d be open to Ullmark for Holtz and Schmid

A late third round pick is a throwaway option and I’m not a fan of Vanecek over $1m

Ultimately I think it would have a negative impact on Boston’s locker room and be bad optics in the anniversary year

TerreriStepper et Brewwins a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 20 h 10

#11

tupty

Good nerd

Rejoint: juin 2023

Messages: 766

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IMO, I do this if I am Boston. Kudos, I think the puzzle pieces fit well for the Bruins.

Holtz definitely has top wing 6 potential. A 3.4m Vanecek is probably not going to work, but a 1.7m Vanecek is a reasonable backup option for the rest of this season and next year if Bussi isn't ready. If Bussi is ready it feels like that contract could be flipped. I'd push for that 3rd rounder to be this year, but I probably wouldn't torpedo the deal for that.

TerreriStepper a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 20 h 11

#12

tupty

Good nerd

Rejoint: juin 2023

Messages: 766

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Quoting: Celtics21

Ultimately I think it would have a negative impact on Boston’s locker room and be bad optics in the anniversary year

Good point. A move like this could affect the room.

2 janv. à 20 h 15

#13

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

Rejoint: mars 2017

Messages: 138

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Quoting: Celtics21

All valid points, I appreciate the feedback. It does seem like Holtz + 2nd is the formula most B's fans agree upon. It's tricky though, because the Devils would need to fit all this into their cap and then find another destination for Vitek, and then would have that much less leftover to compensate for the loss of Holtz.

I just hate to give up on this trade concept, as it seems like these teams could make a mutually beneficial trade. Again, appreciate the feedback, curious if you can imagine any creative options that would seal the deal (I'm drawing a blank haha)...

2 janv. à 20 h 18

#14

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: tupty

Thanks, that was what I was going for - it seems like something could be brewing here that would actually work out for both teams. Nothing is ever perfect, but all things considered, my thinking was that it would be a net positive for both teams. Then again, perhaps those final details are what would end up torpedoing the whole thing. Shame though, I'd really hope something could be worked out.

2 janv. à 20 h 22

#15

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Messages: 138

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Quoting: Celtics21

Quoting: tupty

Good point. A move like this could affect the room.

Interesting, I didn't really think of that. Ultimately it's a business and the B's probably have to eventually move one of the their goalies. But who knows, maybe not.

2 janv. à 20 h 33

#16

tupty

Good nerd

Rejoint: juin 2023

Messages: 766

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Quoting: TerreriStepper

Interesting, I didn't really think of that. Ultimately it's a business and the B's probably have to eventually move one of the their goalies. But who knows, maybe not.

I think Ullmark is well liked in the room, but the relationship between Swayman and Ullmark is particularly unicorn-like. I think they generally really like each other and think of themselves as a tandem more than as competitors. Given how much the Bruins are relying on goaltending this year, it probably helps alleviate pressure on both guys knowing that that the weight is not individually on either one of them.

I think the most likely outcome in Boston is probably an Ullmark trade in the offseason, but we will see.

TerreriStepper a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 21 h 1

#17

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Messages: 138

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Quoting: tupty

Yah that makes sense. Interestingly, the Devils GM has stated before that he doesn't really make goalie trades in-season. But I think that is the problem - this is a move that only makes sense in season, when it could salvage the current season and then be built upon next season. As odd as it might seem, I think this trade evaporates the minute it becomes an offseason deal. At that point you are acquiring a rental for one season. Still worth pursuing, but not at the expense of a player like Holtz. Maybe a first and some minor prospect?

Bummer though, at first this seemed like an exciting trade possibility. But I definitely appreciate the feedback, that was the whole point of the post. File another one under "too good to be true"

Cheers!

Celtics21 a aimé ceci.

2 janv. à 21 h 27

#18

Celtics21

Rejoint: mai 2023

Messages: 3,984

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It’s going to be interesting. I see an Ullmark trade at the draft with an agreement to extend if it is going to happen. Otherwise, I’m expecting them to keep Ullmark and let him choose what he wants to do long term.

Holtz as the basis of a deal for Ullmark is an interesting start and it’s a pleasure talking to a Devils fan willing to discuss it.

I’ve mentioned a second and I’d probably give up a fourth. I’m probably the wrong person because I view any pick past the second round as kind of a lottery ticket. I don’t even pay attention to CSB rankings past 30. Used to get excited about steals and then realized that players drop for a reason

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2 janv. à 21 h 38

#19

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: Celtics21

The pleasure's all mine, I love brainstorming these things with fans of other teams. It's obviously just for fun, not like the GM's are listening! It's a fun exercise though to see how a deal could be reached that would at least nominally benefit both sides. To me this seems so close.

I'd happily do Holtz + 2nd, done and dusted, provided it is this season and before the trade deadline. I think where it gets tricky, though, is that we then need to move Vitek, just for cap reasons, so that would be another pick to surrender to a team like San Jose or Anaheim to take that contract. Then we need to find another rental to replace Holtz, and meanwhile we probably should shore up our defense with an additional piece, just to make this whole run worth the while... My thinking was that, with Ullmark, we could salvage the season and make a playoff run, and then next season we'd have the whole package and really make a serious run for it. There are probably moves that can be made though, I just can't visualize it at the moment.

I'd still prefer any of the above to Gibson, fwiw

2 janv. à 22 h 10

#20

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: Celtics21

Thinking about it a bit more, if we're at the table and the clock is running down, and the deal is Holtz + 2nd for Ullmark take it or leave it, I'd probably pull the trigger. We'd still have a 1st and 3rd to work with, and I have to imagine some creative GM work could shuffle Vitek around without costing too much.

The thing Devils fans need to get is that, with Ullmark, we are getting way more than league average goaltending; we're getting a high end, established goaltender that may even be able to paper over some of our defensive deficiencies (at least to an extent). With him, we may not need a Hanifin of Chychrun, maybe just shore up the defense with a Tanev or something and call it a day. With the offensive power we have, Ullmark could very well be the missing piece that gives us two very solid swings at contention - and to me, that's how the devils have to start thinking. It allows us to compete in the immediate term and buy some time to figure the long term goaltending situation. All of this is better than just sticking with the status quo, where we score 5 goals but let in 6, and end up missing the playoffs (with no clear solution for next season either!)

It hurts to give up a guy like Holtz, but it may be the type of gamble you make if you want to reach that next level. Curious to know your thoughts, coming from a team that has been a perennial contender. Always respect the Bruins, they have been relevant for longer than any team I can recall, always in the mix, seemingly never rebuilding.

Appreciate the conversation!

2 janv. à 22 h 19

#21

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

Messages: 12,263

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I would not move holtz for Ullmark.

2 janv. à 22 h 24

#22

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

Messages: 12,263

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Henrique without retention does not cost that much.

Chychrun isn’t what we need. Especially not losing siegs.

We do not need another offensive minded dman.

2 janv. à 22 h 35

#23

TerreriStepper

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TerreriStepper

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Quoting: dgibb10

I would not move holtz for Ullmark.

lol you are persistent. OK, fair enough, then what move would you make? Can't just keep running out what we've been doing. Pray for Daws to be the savior?

2 janv. à 22 h 42

#24

dgibb10

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

Messages: 12,263

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Quoting: TerreriStepper

lol you are persistent. OK, fair enough, then what move would you make? Can't just keep running out what we've been doing. Pray for Daws to be the savior?

I’d move Holtz up in the lineup.

Put toffoli on the block and sell him if the right opportunity presents itself. I’d sell for a 1st and 3rd if it comes. Nico Jack Mikey Haula Palat Holtz Mercer Meier Bratt is a more than good enough top 9. If not move haula to line 4 for now.

Target a 2LD. Ferraro, Pettersson, Hanafin whoever (Pettersson is the main target). Need to be better on the kill than Bahl and be able to shut it down with Marino. This makes us a much more sound defensive squad which makes the goalies life easier.

1 more piece of depth as a want, not a need. Haven’t been the happiest with Bastian but whatever

In terms of goalie there’s a number of options.

I’d offer a 1st+2nd+Vanacek for Ullmark now. Not holtz and no retention.

Or I’d go after Filip Gustafsson with a bigger offer than for Ullmark.

Or jarry, Gibson retained, Markstrom retained, etc etc.

If legit starting goalies are not available at reasonable rates I move down.

Use the dougie LTIR space on a guy like Mrazek. Go after a Stolarz or a Nedjelkovic or a vejmelka.

2 janv. à 22 h 46

#25

Jded

Rejoint: juin 2016

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I would think ANA accepts that

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