Drouin was moved on from in a move to bring in a young Dman with potential. But when he was in TBL he was viewed as a core guy with Stamkos and Kucherov

In general through proper drafting and development TBL was able to build a winner. When there was a chance to make their team better they took it. JTM + McDonagh trade, JTM trade to Van to get assets which they then flipped for Coleman, etc.

We go to WSH same thing they made moves to try and win moving on from Greene and other players who were considered core guys, This also happened with VGK and other teams. VGK especially look at the turnover of that team

Fleury, Pacioretty, Tuch, Schmidt, etc.


As for Toronto its been the same thing year in and out. Keep the 4 players and change everyone else. Time and time again. Arguably if this was any other team one or two of those guys would have been moved

At the time the trade was done everyone said CGY won. Nobody saw Huberdeau and Weegar having awful seasons under Sutter while Tkachuck lead FLA on a Cinderella run to the SCF.

As basically at the time everyone thought FLA was crazy trading an 100 point player and top 4 Dman for another 100 point player.

Yes in the end FLA won it but nobody was singing that tune at the time and if FLA missed the playoffs people would not be saying anyone won. Would have been a draw as nobody benefited.

Moving on to Toronto


Toronto can move on from Willy and break even as there are plenty of scenario's to do so.


Seattle, Carolina, Nashville, NYI etc. All could give the Leafs good packages for Willy. Now what comes back depends on if you can do a sign and trade or just rental status but there are options

Carolina for instance could see Necas and Pesce occur if they can get 8 years of Willy. With that Toronto gets a top 4 Dman and a top 9 winger. Helps fill in 2 holes on the team and both should fit in nicely.

Seattle could offer Toronto a deal similar to Horvat 1st + Kartye + Bjorkstrand where the Leafs can then flip the 1st for someone else like a top 4 Dman great.

Heck if NSH offered Toronto something similar to PLD gimmie young good Center, top 9 wing, pick and bottom 6 versatile player thats not bad

And then there's the Islanders. If they offered Toronto Dobson you think they gonna say no lul.

There are options its not like Willy is untradeable. Might not look like a win immediately but if the Leafs go to the SCF as a result of the trade where the players acquired become key parts to the success nobody can deny they won lul.

Cause

Bertuzzi-Matthews-Necas
Robertson-JT-Marner
Knies-Domi-Jarnkrok
Lafferty-Kampf-Reaves

Rielly-Pesce
Brodie-Klingberg
McCabe-Liligren

Is pretty good

There is also the option of keeping him and letting him walk in FA is it ideal no but if offers arent good and or there is no playoff success again this year then its time for change anyways

You've drank the cool aid. Just one of the burn it all down crowd now. When they stay the course and win, I hope you guys just pipe down forever

Taking bets now, who thinks we will hear Hall & Oates when the Leafs score at Scotiabank tomorrow? Who thinks we hear something else?

Eh probably still Hall and Oates

You're making a lot of assumptions as to the motive behind Nylander getting a look at C...much in the same way you made assumptions about the Murray situation.

Are signs there...sure....in Murray's case, as I said a number of times....none of that would have worked without his cooperation and willingness to keep quiet and go to LTIR.

With Nylander...you could be entirely correct...maybe he's trying to improve his trade value...but maybe it's also Nylander and his agent saying they want a look at C. Maybe it's just Tre trying to build a functional roster and wants his own, first hand look.

At the same time, I don't buy into any assumption that revolves around putting Nylander in a position to fail so that he can be re-signed for less....if that's the case, everyone should be fired for thinking that way

I was going to make a similar comment....

If Willy and JT had opposite salaries...would anyone think it was odd? No.

And the only argument for not signing Willy @ $10m is so that we don't have 4 players in that bracket?

What happened to evaluating the player based on merit? If Willy puts up another year like last year, $10m is a reasonable number....and I agree that it would be worth it to number crunch for 1 year until JT either comes off the books or re-signs for 1/2 his current cost.

Even if he has a similar season if the Leafs do not achieve success in the playoffs its time for change

Leafs have stuck with the same 4 guys for long enough one could argue if they get knocked out r2 or heck go back to the first round exit and then decide you know what lets give him 10m thats not gonna go over well with Leafs nation or the hockey world.

As having 4 guys in double digits eats away at the cap and prevents the team from improving elsewhere.

Next year Leafs got a bunch of spots to fill especially on the blue line and are gonna need to extend Liligren and get a starting goalie if not extend Samsonov. Having 4 guys at 10m+ even with the cap expected to be at 88m just makes things the same as now

As if we look at every other competitor or team who has gone to the SCF they had made significant changes at some point to a core or key member

FLA last year did what people thought was the insane move of moving Huberdeau and Weegar for Tkachuck. Now did it work out yes but at the time nobody thought that. They all thought FLA was crazy trading to key players to bring in Tkachuck. Lucky for them they went on a Cinderella run

As for Toronto they have done it all but shift the core. Goalie is the issue lets go get a new one, Dcore's bad lets improve it, No scoring depth here yah go, need a top 6 forward there. But what about those 4 guys. No leave them and when there was a hint maybe 1 or 2 were out the door guy got fired.

In the end you can have 4 great players but in playoffs what matters is results and one could argue none of the 4 has got it done. Won a round for the first time since they came to the League in 2016. If they do not get results this year Willy got to be the scapegoat for change

Honestly...this argument is the void one.

Vegas won because they gave away Patches for nothing.

Maybe leafs should do the same and hope to win, too? C'mon dude. Vegas has been on a tear signing and trading for big name players and it worked out for them. It's a great squad....but they've been moving out packages for elite level players...not going in the opposite direction.

And Florida? They were tooth and nail just to make the playoffs and then rode a hot goalie to the finals....a goalie that everyone in Panther nation would have been thrilled to jettison before the season because he wasn't worth the salary. Even as great as Tkachuk was....it's highly unlikely they go as far as they do unless they keep the player many wanted to get rid of.

Tampa went through a lot of crappy years but stuck with their core and added around it.

Boston? Since winning in 2011...who have they traded away from their core? Seguin? That was more off-ice issues. Dougie Hamilton is maybe the one guy they couldn't get to agree to a contract because he wanted out and they moved him at the draft as an RFA.

and to that effect...the time is already passed to get a value trade for Nylander. It needed to happen in July/Aug, if at all....unless the leafs stink this year and are out of a playoff spot at the deadline, Nylander is either a big part of the success for this coming season and the playoffs...or, less likely, he's crap and we won't get value. Either way, the time is passed unless Tre can pull another sign and trade (which, really, was kind of the first of it's kind last offseason so wouldn't be quick to assume another one is a slam dunk).

You have opinions and predictions and a lot of passion and I'm here for all of that. My personal opinion is that you get tunnel vision a lot and completely convince yourself that there's only one conceivable angle to a story or situation with one specific solution.

What your missing is this

VGK was not afraid to gamble and make changes to their core that is what helped them win a cup

They got rid of Patches in MAF in cap moves which people viewed as insane but it did help them in the end win a cup. As through it they gained cap space to go add other players through waivers and trades who helped them on their cup run (Barbashev, Amadio, Hill, etc.)


Meanwhile Toronto has changed players around the core 4, added new Dman, goalies, coaches, etc. So when is it their turn?

There is an argument moving on from one or two and trying at least something new may lead to better results.

As in the end it all comes down to playoffs. If Toronto does not progress further this year the core 4 cant continue as if you lose r1 or 2 and bring Willy back at 10m god help MLSE.

And why is it Willy that gets scapegoated?

He's been a top playoff producer despite logging less ice time, particularly on the power play.

Trading him is the logical move to cure playoff ineptitude?

Why not magically put Tavares on LTIR next year since that was a matter of pushing a button this year with Murray. Why not do that again but with JT?

You got to start somewhere. Honestly one could have argued a trade should have happened involving him after the first TBL series.

His contract is up and if they do not get improved playoff results its best to move on from him to send a message no good playoff results from the team good bye

As if the Leafs lose R1 or dont progress further than the second round there is no justifying bringing him back and saying here's 10m. As then were continuing the same thing over and over and you cant move on from the other 3 as one just extended, one has a contract thats not moveable. and the third's got a NTC and you wont get fair value.

VGK has moved on from key guys why cant we same with FLA. Unless they have more playoff success there is no point in sticking with the same thing over and over again

If they moved on from Willy but it lead to better playoff results thats not a bad thing is it.

Cause with the cap saved they can make a pretty scary team especially the blue line.

How is it that it is all of us "missing" something???? Are you maybe missing something by going back to the well with Vegas...who moved on from a late-30s MAF when they had Robin Lehner already in the fold and playing well? Or moving on from a mid-30s Patches who was 5yrs removed from his prime?

I'm not even here advocating that the leafs should stay the course and keep running back the same core if they continue to fail in the playoffs...but it's incredibly easy for me to read you picking apart everyone else's comments and calling them invalid and sitting here on my perch and doing the same to you.

Have a convo instead of preaching

Exactly, and really would anyone be surprised if he actually has a better year than last year. What does he look like of he puts a full 82 games in where he gives near max effort? Is a 50 goal 100 point season even that much of a stretch? Better trade him for a 2nd pair defenceman and a middle 6 forward who combined make the same! Lol

(I am a bit worried that this 3C thing will tank his value slightly)

A little off the topic here but does anyone want Tavares re-signed. I’ve always looked at 2025 as TOR best window (as long as Marner/Nylander are still here) to win a cup. You can reallocate that 11 mil Tavares takes up and spend that on D and TOR should definitely have some other than younger prospects still on a ELC to support the top guys.

I’m personally ready to move on from JT

Depends on the cap hit

At a Malkin cap hit no. If he does what Pavelski did sure (3.5m x 1 year)

But in the end if we dont see improved playoff results I argue you got to start moving on from the core. Willy is first due to contract circumstances and then most likely JT. But who knows may decide to move on from Marner to and completely focus on building around AM

Cause Shanny is done next year and if they dont see results hes out the door one way or another.

Also 2025 is not gonna be easy even with the cap freed up as Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa are getting better every year and could go from fringe contenders to serious contenders, making the path to a cup more difficult. Basically Metro 2.0 Division.

For me, I guess it depends on a few things. Is he still producing? Do we have another option at 2C that is better? How cheap is he willing to re-sign for? Is the team morale better off shifting leadership to the younger core and away from the stoic JT or is he a stabilizing force?

I guess, emotionally, yes, I'm more than ready to move on from JT...the decision to keep him would be strictly business related.

I hate that Morgan Reilly is not the Captain although I can see the argument it should go to Matthews.

I also hate that in his career as a Leaf in playoffs Tavares is getting out scored 13GF-21GA. I’m always going to be a “what if” guy if JT never signed here.

I’m ready for a change there

What I don't get is why everyone assumes he's going to be the 3C. Willy could be out produce Tavares and bump JT to 3C for stretches.

You can definitely reallocate some of JT's salary to defence but he's definitely resigning. Likely for a bargain. He drops to hopefully less than 7 and is a value contract and that extra 4.5 million goes to defence.

The Atlantic has represented the eastern conference in the cup final for 5 straight years. Getting out of the Atlantic is the hardest thing to do in the playoffs right now. It's weird how no one seems to get this.

Yea thats the big problem in terms of if Brad is looking to trade him than let him walk

Now that goes out the window if Willy performs but than if that happens it causes more problems unless that is someone decides to overpay which could happen as teams often pay more for C's than wings.

Its a wait and see rn.

History, mostly

Its hard but good teams rise to the Challenge. TBL went 3 times in a row while also making some changes. FLA made it through arguably significant changes that helped drive the push to the SCF. Sure those are Atlantic teams but when we have seen the Leafs in the playoffs they have had their problems and have not looked as good as said teams

Leafs had some good chances to go far and blew it.

Look at the Leafs last 4 opponents in the playoffs

BOS
CBJ
MTL
TBL

Dont tell me Toronto should not have ran away with the Canadian division in the playoffs back in 2021 through beating MTL in the first round instead of blowing a 3-1 series lead. Or beat CBJ in the wildcard tournament the year before. Those were the series you could argue changes should have happened to the core after the losses. It was the TBL series we finally saw something especially in game 7 but even then when they lost the first time you could argue some change was needed.

If the Leafs do not get passed the first or even the second round its time for a change. Cant just keep the same 4 guys and try to build around them over and over especially at higher cap hits for most of them. As they have done that over and over and only recently have seen minimal improvement.

Results will be the deciding factor but if they lose and Willy comes back at 10m god help MLSE.