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Toronto Maple Leafs 2022 season Discussion (Part 2)

12 déc. 2022 à 13 h 31
#101
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Quoting: aadoyle
Yeah his decisions making sometimes is very questionable. The Tampa series with him was fine. The one move they called him on was costly but lets be honest Refs ignored how many similar plays before that. Like Tampa did it in 2 other series resulting in a goal but refs let it happen. Anyways lets see.

As if they are looking for upgrades there are options. But I would rather move one or both of Engvall and Kerfoot for a true 2-way 3c (Eller, Dvorak,etc) and a bottom 6 scoring RW


Kampf is at least as good as Eller and Dvorak nowadays and for a fraction of the cost. I agree on a 3C upgrade but those guys aren't the answer.
12 déc. 2022 à 13 h 40
#102
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Quoting: leafs101
Kampf is at least as good as Eller and Dvorak nowadays and for a fraction of the cost. I agree on a 3C upgrade but those guys aren't the answer.


Disagree. Kampf yes is as good defensively if not but offensively both those guys are better.

If we look at their highest totals

Kampf 82gp 11 goals 15 assists
Eller 69gp 16 goals 23 assists
Dvorak 70gp 18 goals 20 assists

Kampf is better off as the 4c on our team and getting a reasonable 3c should be priority.
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12 déc. 2022 à 13 h 56
#103
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FjqsapzXoAABuxk?format=jpg&name=large

This is trending rn

Some are characterizing it as hes asking to be traded to us. While I wouldnt mind it, with how things are going it would cause problems. That is unless one of the D changes positions
12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 10
#104
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Quoting: aadoyle
Disagree. Kampf yes is as good defensively if not but offensively both those guys are better.

If we look at their highest totals

Kampf 82gp 11 goals 15 assists
Eller 69gp 16 goals 23 assists
Dvorak 70gp 18 goals 20 assists

Kampf is better off as the 4c on our team and getting a reasonable 3c should be priority.


agreed he should be 4C, but Eller and Dvorak have just one more point than Kampf this year, they don't move the needle significantly enough to be worth what you'll pay in assets. I'd be more open to Eller, but not willing to commit to Dvorak to term. It should be clear house in terms on long term deals until Bunting, Samsonov/Murray (whoever wins the crease), Sandin, Liljegren, Nylander, Matthews, Marner, and JT all have extensions in place. Kampf would be the only exception where I'd sign him longer term (4-5 years) to bring the AAV down to ballpark 1.9M to 2.4M.

A lot of important pieces to re-sign in the near future and not worth losing any of those players to bring in Dvorak.
12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 12
#105
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Quoting: aadoyle
FjqsapzXoAABuxk?format=jpg&name=large

This is trending rn

Some are characterizing it as hes asking to be traded to us. While I wouldnt mind it, with how things are going it would cause problems. That is unless one of the D changes positions


only way I see it working in terms of fit is if Sandin is a part of the deal, and I wouldn't add all that much more over Rasmus with the way he's playing. Chyrchrun is bigger though and if he stays healthy I would prefer him to Sandin as much as I love him. But I would be hesitant, especially if they want a ton more which they likely would

Plus Rasmus is a big part of the group, and I see the min swede-core as a big reason as to why Willy won't hesitate to re-sign at a fair deal
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12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 15
#106
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kerfoal94

It’s always shocking how a team like the Leafs that uses analytics and still keeps Kerfoot around. Like he drags down so many players.


Again, it’s not even close, Engvall > Kerfoot

engvapi96

For me the most glaring is Kampf, Engvall and David should be glued together.


I’m all for upgrading on both, but a 4th line of Engvall Kampf ZAR is perfect going forward and into the playoffs. It’s the 3rd line that needs a remake
12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 18
#107
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Posting for no reason at all

kerfoal94

It’s always shocking how a team like the Leafs that uses analytics and still keeps Kerfoot around. Like he drags down so many players.


Again, it’s not even close, Engvall > Kerfoot

engvapi96

For me the most glaring is Kampf, Engvall and David should be glued together.


I’m all for upgrading on both, but a 4th line of Engvall Kampf ZAR is perfect going forward and into the playoffs. It’s the 3rd line that needs a remake



Not great

But as said only thing probs keeping him in his hes the second PK C until a replacement is got wont change
12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 24
#108
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Putting this out into the universe because I want it to happen.

Leafs have a glut of goalie depth, SEA does not. With SEA claiming my boy Tolvanen, Dubas trades one of Woll or Kallgren for Tolvanen. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞
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12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 33
#109
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Putting this out into the universe because I want it to happen.

Leafs have a glut of goalie depth, SEA does not. With SEA claiming my boy Tolvanen, Dubas trades one of Woll or Kallgren for Tolvanen. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞


keep Kallgren with the injury risks in net. Proven he can at least give the team a chance to win most nights. Who knows when we might have to rely on him again, far more important than a winger gamble.

Woll though, could be an option. But again if there's anywhere you want a glut of depth, its in the crease, so idk.
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12 déc. 2022 à 14 h 58
#110
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Putting this out into the universe because I want it to happen.

Leafs have a glut of goalie depth, SEA does not. With SEA claiming my boy Tolvanen, Dubas trades one of Woll or Kallgren for Tolvanen. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞


But Dreidger is coming back so in a sense SEA gonna eventually need to sack a goalie
12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 27
#111
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Posting for no reason at all

kerfoal94

It’s always shocking how a team like the Leafs that uses analytics and still keeps Kerfoot around. Like he drags down so many players.


Again, it’s not even close, Engvall > Kerfoot

engvapi96

For me the most glaring is Kampf, Engvall and David should be glued together.


I’m all for upgrading on both, but a 4th line of Engvall Kampf ZAR is perfect going forward and into the playoffs. It’s the 3rd line that needs a remake


I think Kerf is a good setter, which is something the team tends to lack (see Micas stuff for setting)
12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 34
#112
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Quoting: aadoyle
But Dreidger is coming back so in a sense SEA gonna eventually need to sack a goalie


I’m talking about goalie prospects. They have Kokko and Vyazovoi, that’s it.

With the Coachella Valley they only have journeymen, Booth, Starlett, Daccord, and Gibson.
12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 36
#113
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Putting this out into the universe because I want it to happen.

Leafs have a glut of goalie depth, SEA does not. With SEA claiming my boy Tolvanen, Dubas trades one of Woll or Kallgren for Tolvanen. 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞


Quoting: leafs101
keep Kallgren with the injury risks in net. Proven he can at least give the team a chance to win most nights. Who knows when we might have to rely on him again, far more important than a winger gamble.

Woll though, could be an option. But again if there's anywhere you want a glut of depth, its in the crease, so idk.



I'd hang onto both Kallgren and Woll. Kallgren has shown he is a capable NHL goalie, and having that sort of waiver-exempt goalie depth is going to be key, especially with two injury prone goalies. Woll has 3 years left for cheap and looked good in the NHL. If we are going to buy on a misused two-way forward looking for a change of scenery, I'd look to Puljujarvi. Given our extensive defensive depth, we could afford to move a defender to shore up the forward group. Puljujarvi's transition game, forechecking pressures, and lack of trade value make him highly enticing. If Timmins works out, maybe you sell high on Holl and send him with a low draft pick to Edmonton. Even without Holl, we can still roll:

Rielly - Liljegren
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Timmins
Benn
Mete
Hollowell
Kral
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12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 43
#114
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Quoting: Nathaniel
I'd hang onto both Kallgren and Woll. Kallgren has shown he is a capable NHL goalie, and having that sort of waiver-exempt goalie depth is going to be key, especially with two injury prone goalies. Woll has 3 years left for cheap and looked good in the NHL. If we are going to buy on a misused two-way forward looking for a change of scenery, I'd look to Puljujarvi. Given our extensive defensive depth, we could afford to move a defender to shore up the forward group. Puljujarvi's transition game, forechecking pressures, and lack of trade value make him highly enticing. If Timmins works out, maybe you sell high on Holl and send him with a low draft pick to Edmonton. Even without Holl, we can still roll:

Rielly - Liljegren
Sandin - Brodie
Giordano - Timmins
Benn
Mete
Hollowell
Kral


Certainly not wrong with having two injury prone goalies but at something has to give right now.

The Leafs have: Kallgren Woll Petruzelli with the Marlies and Cavallin McKay with the Growlers. Either they loan Petruzelli out to another organization or you look at moving one. Leafs are going to need to move an ELC of they still intend on signing Knies after his conclusion of his season.

Moving another goalie for Tolvanen doesn’t solve that issue and will most likely not happen, but I COULD see the Leafs moving a goalie in a trade.
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12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 46
#115
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Just gonna lay down a bombshell guess

Rielly and Muzzin wont be back till the playoffs

As Rielly apparently has no clear timeline (mhm) eligible to return Dec 17 but hasnt skated at all (screams longer)

Muzzin's been working out with them but not skating (hmmm) and from reports around the league its most likely not gonna be till playoffs (cap reasons mainly on top of health)

So most likely Dubas will use their cap space in a trade now or before the TDL 100%. Now Rielly might come back before the playoffs (Jan/Feb) but idk seems they are not giving clear cut details which suggests somethings happening
12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 50
#116
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Quoting: aadoyle
Just gonna lay down a bombshell guess

Rielly and Muzzin wont be back till the playoffs

As Rielly apparently has no clear timeline (mhm)

Muzzin's been working out with them but not skating (hmmm)

Dubas will use their cap space in a trade now or before the TDL 100%


Having Rielly, your #1D, in rhythm is more important than almost any player they could get at the TDL.

Very huge difference between working out and playing hockey, likely doing very targeted workouts to assist rehab. I hope you're right that he's doing ok and maybe even well enough to play, but I'd give it a 70% chance at least that he calls it a career, hits Robidas island and maybe hangs around as a mentor of some kind. Nothing left to prove or accomplish, heck of a career, boatload of money and a family to think about. With the nature of his injuries it could really be life altering in just his early 30s.
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12 déc. 2022 à 15 h 53
#117
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Quoting: leafs101
Having Rielly, your #1D, in rhythm is more important than almost any player they could get at the TDL.

Very huge difference between working out and playing hockey, likely doing very targeted workouts to assist rehab. I hope you're right that he's doing ok and maybe even well enough to play, but I'd give it a 70% chance at least that he calls it a career, hits Robidas island and maybe hangs around as a mentor of some kind. Nothing left to prove or accomplish, heck of a career, boatload of money and a family to think about. With the nature of his injuries it could really be life altering in just his early 30s.


Very bad take

Rn Leafs D are doing well without Rielly. He comes back and isnt 100% who cares. If his cap allows u to go get one or two of Kane, O'Rielly, Horvat, etc do it. Kucherov came back after a year and lit up the playoffs, Ekblad came back and also did alright so I wouldnt worry.

As in the playoffs if hes struggling move him down the line as Sandin and Gio have been doing fantastic rn
12 déc. 2022 à 16 h 3
#118
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Modifié 12 déc. 2022 à 16 h 9
Quoting: aadoyle
Very bad take

Rn Leafs D are doing well without Rielly. He comes back and isnt 100% who cares. If his cap allows u to go get one or two of Kane, O'Rielly, Horvat, etc do it. Kucherov came back after a year and lit up the playoffs, Ekblad came back and also did alright so I wouldnt worry.

As in the playoffs if hes struggling move him down the line as Sandin and Gio have been doing fantastic rn


Ekblad got hurt mid march, not November- and even at that look how the Panthers fared against the first legitimate threat they played in Tampa. Kuch - coming back as a forward isn't the same as coming back as D after missing that much time - and it was also the shortened season where he technically only missed around 4 months, not around 6 as Rielly would. Kuch is also a different breed and one of the very best playoff performers of this generation.

D has been good but doesn't mean you want to sustain having to use Gio this much, you still need Rielly ready to be playing 20mins+ come game 1. You can't afford to have his conditioning in bad shape when he's as impactful as he is at his best.
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12 déc. 2022 à 21 h 35
#119
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Modifié 13 déc. 2022 à 0 h 13
Man I almost never agree with Kypreos but he makes a good point



Basically whoever they get is going to pp unit 2 so unless u go get a few guys it wont work

As PP unit 2 even with that addition would be

Knies-Horvat-Bunting
Sandin-Jarnkrok

Which is fine but not great
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13 déc. 2022 à 13 h 52
#120
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RIP 86.5mill cap projections

Bettman once again ran his mouth to early

83.5mill is what we got to work with

Can we get a new commissioner lul
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13 déc. 2022 à 14 h 0
#121
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Quoting: aadoyle
RIP 86.5mill cap projections

Bettman once again ran his mouth to early

83.5mill is what we got to work with

Can we get a new commissioner lul


Theyre literally running the league into the ground. Genuinely do not understand why the owners like him. The MLS passed us and they were somehow shocked lol
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13 déc. 2022 à 14 h 12
#122
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Quoting: Random2152
Theyre literally running the league into the ground. Genuinely do not understand why the owners like him. The MLS passed us and they were somehow shocked lol


Hes the owners Guinea pig he doesnt question their logic

Commissioners who challenge owners often get better results (i.e. NBA, former MLB)

If the league wants more money Bettman needs to relocate poor revenue teams

Arizona and Florida be good examples of where to start
13 déc. 2022 à 14 h 17
#123
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Quoting: aadoyle
Hes the owners Guinea pig he doesnt question their logic

Commissioners who challenge owners often get better results (i.e. NBA, former MLB)

If the league wants more money Bettman needs to relocate poor revenue teams

Arizona and Florida be good examples of where to start


The problem is SOOOOOOO much deeper than needing to move some teams.

The truth is that no one cares about hockey anymore.
Hockey used to be cool, but that was 30+ years ago (peeks at when Bettman came over).

The sport is horribly marketed, has awful outreach and is slowly shrinking into nothing. They keep making the product worse in an effort to squeeze every penny out and lose interest in the long run. Their insistance on game management destroys credibility and there is so much more.

Our growth if indexed, is actually negative. Not even small, but literally less than 0.

Its literally a boys club, and if things dont change all that will be left is the 200 Hockey men
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13 déc. 2022 à 17 h 38
#124
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Just gonna throw a name that I like for the Leafs out there: Anthony Beauvillier. Isles 8th most used forward this year, not seeing much PP time. Only 25, scored at a 20ish+ goal pace for the four seasons prior to last. Has also been a pretty reliable scoring option for the Isles in the playoffs... If it's looking like NYI is going to miss, I'm making a call to see what he'd cost with some retention.
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13 déc. 2022 à 17 h 45
#125
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Modifié 13 déc. 2022 à 17 h 54
Quoting: LeafsFanForSomeReason
Just gonna throw a name that I like for the Leafs out there: Anthony Beauvillier. Isles 8th most used forward this year, not seeing much PP time. Only 25, scored at a 20ish+ goal pace for the four seasons prior to last. Has also been a pretty reliable scoring option for the Isles in the playoffs... If it's looking like NYI is going to miss, I'm making a call to see what he'd cost with some retention.


With the cap going up only by a mill doesnt work anymore. And I doubt Isles retain on him

We got to extend Bunting, Samsonov, Timmins, Kampf, and find a new 3c. So its unlikely it can work

Plus Robertson and Knies need spots
 
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