Monahan probably isn't even the 2nd best center available over Toews. He won't get a 1st as a return, too much competition in the market among centers.

that's the thing I can't get - players like Bo Horvat, Patty Kane, Jonathan Toews, and potentially Ryan O'Reilly are going to be available at the deadline. Monahan is a decent middle-6 forward, sure, but there's only so many contenders looking for forward upgrades and only so many 1st round picks to go around. With the 23 draft being advertised as very good and very deep 1st rounders this year are going to be very hard to pry - it's gonna have to be for a star, and Monahan's just not that.

Pageau in the 19-20 season was on pace for 30+ goals and had been a consistent good player for the ~3 years beforehand. He’s also a way better all around player than monahan they aren’t comparable at all.

Sure they are.

GREAT question.

Lmaoooo pageau was on pace for 32 goals monahan is on pace for 19. Pageau is an elite PKer an elite shutdown C he’s very good on the pp and NY had plans to keep him long term given that like 5 hours after the trade he signed a 6 year extension. Monahan is scoring at a rate that’s roughly 60% of what pageau was scoring at he’s not an elite PKer nor an elite shutdown C nor an elite faceoff guy and COL doesn’t have the cap to keep him. They’re literally as incomparable as it gets

That’s beside the point. A guy on pace for 19g and 54p is not a 2C on a contending team so nobody’s paying a 1st for him. Just bc it’s better than what they have doesn’t make him something he isn’t. Hypothetically if he were to cost a 6th COL would probably and should be all over that but he’s not worth a 1st he’s just not.

Interestingly enough, that season was an outlier for Pageau in his career. The Islanders "bought high". He had never put up those numbers before and he never has again. There are very explainable reasons for Monahan's 2 year dip in production (he needed 2 hip surgeries), where as there are not for Pageau's. I predict that for the next 5 seasons, inclusive of this one, Monahan will outperform Pageau. Would you bet against that?

Let's revisit this conversation in March.

It was preposterous to believe that Chiarot could get an unprotected 1st and a 4th back in November 2021 and yet this is what the Habs got in March 2022. Same for Lekhonen.

I wouldn't give you a 1st for Edmundson.

I wouldn't give you Toby Bjornfot for Edmundson.

I CERTAINLY wouldn't give you both for Edmundson.

We'd be lucky to get a 5th for Dadonov at 50% retained. His contract will most probably die in Montreal.

Bjornfot for Edmundson is the sort of desperation move -- trading the future for a short-term fix now -- that Rob Blake has avoided in the past. Exchanging our 2023 first for a late 2024 second removes this idea from the realm of the poor to that of the appallingly awful.

and horvat is a much better player and is a 1C.
I dont see how that helps your argument.

It's all about how much you're willing to mortgage the future to invest in the present

and we all assume its only pending UFAs that would be traded at the deadline, which is not the case. Every year a few RFAs or guys with term are moved bc a team just realizes they are not very good and ships into a rebuild.

Avs fans and ducks fan have had a long interesting convo about Adam Henrique, who is available for trade. Duck fans say they can easily retain 50% for him. Hes signed for 1 more year. Moving a 1st for Henrique at 2.9m aav for next season adn this post season is much more palatable than a guy like Monahan (also habs fans keep on ignore stylistically hes a bad fit on the avs bc of his sub par skating.

they arent mortgaging anything of value for a 3C in monahan, that is what he is on a contender

You would have to mortgage the future for Horvat, that's my point. Monahan is a cheaper alternative.

i didnt say I wanted to trade for horvat either. You know teams can make trades for players besides Monahan and Horvat

i mean, Horvat is worth a 1st+ and Habs fans are saying Monahan's worth a 1st as well, so how much cheaper is it actually? the '23 1st rounder is going to have a heavy value attached to it because of the depth of the draft, and, for me, it's in for a penny, in for a pound - if i'm already putting that asset on the table, what's the difference between adding a pair of lesser assets to upgrade from Monahan to Horvat?

Of course they can. Which players would you target as your potential 2C?

my ideal target is Adam Henrique. Hes available, 1 year of term left, duck fans on this site all agree that they could easily retain him up to 50%.
Henrique at 2.9m aav for this season and next is a lot more appealing than all these rentals. And stylistically he fits the avs

Interesting. What do you believe could be the price for Henrique at 50% for 2 years?

we were debating that. probably costs a 1st round pick. Would hope they avoid the 2023rd pick and use the 2024. The ducks fans like Ranta as prospect as well. A 2nd and Ranta would have been nice if the avs had a pick before 2025 in the 1st round.

Could accept them moving the 1st for him retained though bc of the extra year of term, wouldnt be thrilled about it but at least its tolerable

No it wasn’t not if anyone was paying attention that’s what savard got the year before. It was the crowd that doesn’t want anyone over 5’9” 175 bc “size is overrated” that kept spamming that. You have to find good comps and then everything moves as expected. I’m guessing if monahan keeps this pace up he’ll get slightly less than Taylor hall got.

I get your point about the depth of this upcoming draft and it's a valid one. We just don't know yet to what extent it will be taken into consideration at the TDL. When the first domino will fall we should get an indication.