Chychrun is worth more IMO.

Holl plus two late 2nds doesn’t get you Dumba with 3mill retained

Normally, yes - but he's demanding a trade out of the desert, so the Yotes don't have a lot of leverage...

That’s fair

What does then? Dumba is UFA at the end of the year, so the money is off the books quickly, and you potentially have a cheaper 3rd line pairing + two seconds - seems okay for a rental who's a second line pairing.

More Leaf fan fascination, thinking Muzzin waives to Arizona

If he's done and its an LTIR dump what does he care? We can also leave him here on Robidas Island if he prefers.

You're right if he's a LTIR dump. But to expect Muzzin to be on LTIR all this season and next season seems far fetched.

Maybe a Malgin type sweetener? It’s just the retainage is a bit much.

Holl + 2nd isn’t enough for Dumba straight up.
Holl + two 2nds is closer to fair
Holl + two 2nds for Dumba (3 mill retained) isn’t close
Holl + two 2nds + Malgin for Dumba (3mil retained) is closer

Other teams will have a better package than that so doesn't really matter about leverage...

And as said above, that package doesn't get Dumba

Bill Armstrong has all the leverage, Just because Chychrun wants out of the desert. Doesn't mean Armstrong is taking crap for him. Muzzin doesn't waive for ASU. And the rest holds no value for the Yotes.

He's not demanding ****. The team approached him and laid out the timeline and asked him if he would like a trade, which he agreed was the way he wanted to move forward. He hasn't played yet this season due to recovering from surgery.

There is no way in hell the ASU move him without a 2023 first coming back the other way.

But isn't that the beauty of armchair GM'ing?

deal - no loss - or maybe even an improvement by removal.

We'll see - generally I think he's probably worth an additional 1st, or to your point, maybe Leafs (or another team) sacrifice their 2023 Vs. 2024 1st round pick. I think the concern with him is the number of injuries he's already had - is he the type of player that is going to be productive for the next 5-8 years even though he's only 24? That's a big question at this point IMO.

Sandin and a first has no value? I think you're under-estimating...

We'll see...someone is going to pay a stupid amount to get him out of the desert. Regarding Dumba - we'll see - maybe add a prospect (per the Malgin comments on the thread) - but the payment for him isn't going to be much more than what I put here....unless its at the trade deadline, then the 1st rounds picks will be in play - but that's not the perspective of my trade.

Per the other comments - add in another prospect or lower-end player and I don't think the trade is off by much.

What has Sandin done? Leaf fans have so overrated him just like Nicolas Robertson who isn't anywhere near his brother Jason in Dallas. plus the 1st round pick is late. Yeah Armstrong can get better from both LA and the NYR.

I think the Dumba trade is closer than people think. It's been reported out of MN that both Fenton and Guerin have tried to move Dumba, but haven't had much interest. Granted we don't know their asking price, but anyone that thinks this is way off isn't paying attention.

I'd have a hard think on that, if I was Guerin. Dumba maybe gets a 1st at TDL with 50% and that's obviously what you'd hold out for. But for me, 2-2nds and a placeholder body is a respectable starting point.

If MN is out of the Playoffs I'd consider a cap dump and a pair of 2nds for Dumba. If they are in, or on the fringe, I wouldn't and just let him walk after the season.

-If Bill Armstrong shows this offer to other GMs, it easily gets beaten. The cost to dump Muzzin's 2x$5.625M is at least a pair of 2nds, and if we want to be generous we can say Nick Abruzzese is worth close to that. That makes the deal Sandin & a 1st for Chych - not enough for the Coyotes to pull the trigger. It might work if you take Muzzin out of the deal, but if you want to offload him in this you need to add more.

-The Caps do not have the cap space to make this happen. I don't really know any contending team that's going to give up a 3rd for Engvall's $2.25M cap hit right now - they either don't need him or don't have the cap space.

-I know Florida has their own issues now, but come on. Victor Mete is a 7th D at best on every team in this league - there's no planet where he gets a 2nd round pick. If the Panthers are dangling that, there are a dozen other teams with much, much better options than Mete that are going to pick up the phone.

-Minnesota plans on contending this year so I have no idea why they're downgrading their top 4 D and retaining on him. For a pair of late 2nds? It doesn't make sense - Dumba probably leaves at the end of the season, sure, but I'm not going to write off the Wild as a contender after 3 bad games.

Guess you didn't watch the Leafs game last night - Robertson and Sandin were fantastic...