As a Hawks fan. I'm not happy with this. I'd rather have Keith, BUT I understand he wants to be closer to his son. Caleb Jones isn't good. He's quite literally a pawn to attempt to get his brother. This isn't the worst trade I've seen proposed, but I really would rather just keep Duncan Keith.

Who you protecting for D besides Nurse, nobody. So why would you give a fantastic asset away to an expansion draft team, that is brutal

would be a mistake going into next season with the same goalie tandem, just isnt good enough to win

Yeah sorry bud, but honestly you are pretty much getting a bag of pucks for Keith, respect him for the past and take what you can get

Do you happen to have Jones WAR, I have keiths.

Since the Pacific is weak and therefore the West, they can definitely make the playoffs.

We take Keith, not a bunch of nothing. We take 23ATOI.

Jones doesn't play and he's not even worth protecting.

https://ibb.co/1GzMvwG

Awesome, thank you. He is better than Russell. Yet Oilers keep playing Russell ahead of him.

How on earth do we lose Bear to the expansion draft??? The only defense we have to protect in this situation is Nurse, Bear, and either Jones or Keith depending on when the trade happens. You realize that free agency is after the expansion draft right?

I have seen you on a few boards and I have to ask did you even watch any oiler games this year?
Do you really know anything about jones other than what stat sites have told you?

Yes he had 23 ATOI but even on the hawks 7 Dman consistantly ranked 5-7 in every advanced stat statistical category.

Just cuz he had a high time on ice doesnt make him great again. Nikita Zaitsev, played 22 mins a night and he is not a great defense men either. poor stat to prove your point.

I have, but I will not suggest I've watched more games than you. Jones in NOT a young player. I'm not saying he's old and I'm not saying he's a cap dump, but EDM is doing more talking (though actions) than anyone of us on these boards are. He's a regular healthy scratch and when he does play...he doesn't get much time on the ice. Those are actions by the team...not people like me and you talking on a website. I trust EDM's LACK of trust more than words by any of us. Below is a good article that I think does a decent job outlining the bipolar nature of opinion regarding Duncan Keith on this site. It really is the analytics crew vs the eye test crew and there's a beautiful quote to those in the analytics crew...

"But on-ice analytics — Corsi, Fenwick, Expected Goals Percentage — are notoriously misleading. You want an example? In 2019-20 Connor McDavid was one best players in the National Hockey League, but when it came to CorsiFor% he ranked 310th out of 428 regular NHL forwards, for FenwickFor% he ranked 303rd and for Expected Goals For% he ranked 279th. All these stats had him ranked as a below average NHLer. Hmm."

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/mass-speculation-on-caleb-jones-to-blackhawks-duncan-keith-to-edmonton-oilers-and-big-question-about-salary-retention

Same question to you. Have you watched any Hawks games at all? Keith's had a rotation of rookies that he's trying to teach the NHL game to. Whether that be Ian Mitchell, Lucas Calrsson, Nicolas Beaudin, or Wyatt Kalynuk. (Adam Boqvist is also in this mix, but technically a 2nd year guy) It's been Keith that's needed to adjust to all these different rookie Dpairs. That's not easy even for anyone. Do I think Keith should continue to play 23ATOI? HECK NO, but give him a real NHL professional Dpartner and he'll be really good at even just 20 ATOI.

No I watched may 1-2 hawks game this season. more the previous season. my argument is not against keith other than the fact at this point in his career he is not a 5.5 million player. that contract is paying him for what he has done in the past now what he will do in the future. Hawks fans need to look at his value as if he was a free agent what would a team sign him for at 37 to be a 2nd to 3rd pairing guy which is here he is at. I would suggest the high end would be 3 mill the low end would be 2. I would struggle to see a team especially after covid give him any more than that. He would play sheltered minutes against lower comp.

Jones which you think is a throw in and has no value is my argument. 24 for an NHL defense is quite young unless you are a high first round pick the average age for a defense men making to the NHL is usually around 22-23 which is exactly what caleb jones did. once they make it take a couple season to still get really established. they go in and out of the line up all the time as they learn True Caleb was in a competition with another young blue liner early in the season which saw him miss games towards the end he was a regular and played very well passing both eye test and if you want his analytic stats was pretty good there as well. some people will say he got a mcdavid bump he actually played very little with him as nurse and Barrie where used pretty much exclusively with him.

as for head to head stats caleb vs keith yes jones played less games and minutes but the rest of their stats are pretty comparable or jones having the better stats.

First for foremost...I appreciate the good conversation. Just wanted to say that first. Cheers!

I hear you on Dmen taking longer to develop. I also hear you on what would Keith get as a UFA. I do NOT think he would get $5.5M, BUT I also know a lot of teams that would be happy to A.) have a player like Keith with his experience where the would pay up for him and B.) be very happy that his actual salary is $1.8M per year. That part B, is bigger than most people think.

From the Hawks point of view. Caleb is older than Boqvist, Beaudin, Mitchell (the big 3), Stillman, and Kalynuk is approx within 2 months as Jones. Jones doesn't really have a place on the Hawks team. So it's unfortunate, but Jones's value is only to get his brother. That's it and it's definitely not guaranteed Seth will come. Caleb will continue to be a healthy scratch on the Hawks roster. He won't get protected even if a trade happens before the expansion draft...which it won't IMO.

My trade proposal would be Keith with $1.25M retained. (This was a compromise with a different EDM fan between $1M and $1.5M) for Mikko, Jones, and a conditional 5th that gets better up to a 2nd depending on how much Keith plays.

The speculation surrounding Duncan Keith and Seth Jones is ridiculous.

Edmonton cannot acquire Duncan Keith without either sending a contract of similar value back to Chicago, having Chicago retain a potion of Keith's salary, or both. Stan Bowman is under no obligation to force a deal, the only reason he might be shopping Duncan Keith is because the player requested a trade. Why would he do the Oilers and Keith a favor if doing so hurts his team? As far as clearing cap space for Seth Jones, that is even more speculative.

With respect to Caleb Jones, the idea that his whereabouts might have any influence on where his older brother winds up is simply crazy. Seth Jones has a modified no trade clause in his current contract, he can provide the Blue jackets with a 10-team "no go" list. Jarmo Kekalainen can trade Seth Jones to any of the 21 NHL teams not on the "no go" list. Columbus is going to look for the deal that is best for Columbus, and I seriously doubt Kekalainen cares whether Caleb and Seth play together or not.

Now, evidently Chicago is a place Seth Jones would be okay with. The Blackhawks might then be able to compete with 20 other clubs in order to acquire Mr. Jones.

That seems fair on the trade on the bottom. I agree jones would still be in a fight for a spot there. the good news with that is competition amongst defenseman is great. who ever wins out you know you will have a good dman.

His salary being lower is great for team that need a larger cap hit while paying lower money thats usually the ottawas, NJ, ARZs I would not put edmonton in that group.
Yes people would pay for experience which is what the oilers would want which is why they would probably still do a deal with only 1.25 -1.5 in retention.

also i assume CHI would make a side deal with seattle based on what they are trying to do.

I just don’t see where Bear fits. It would be a massive mistake to slot him next to Nurse at 1RD. Larsson will absolutely be resigned and Bouchard has to play this year. I think we find a way to keep Barrie at a reasonable price ($5M?). Bear at $2M just becomes unfortunately expendable…which is too bad because I do like him and think he would work at 3RD but we have to let Bouchard play this year. Bear played junior in Seattle so that’s why I think they will have interest…maybe we can get a draft pick for leaving him exposed?

I don’t disagree with you but how do we get rid of Koskinen and his anchor of a contract? Leave him exposed for Seattle? I don’t think they bite…there will be better goalies to select. I’d love Kuemper but don’t don’t think there is a trade there unless Seattle takes Koskinen, then we trade Bear+forward for Kuemper. Could Garland be available in the same deal?

It's already been hinted at that the oilers are only signing one of Barrie or Larsson, not both. Sounds like it will most likely be Larsson. Either way you realize that the expansion draft takes place before free agency starts right? We wouldn't have to protect Barrie or Larsson... They'd be signed after Seattle makes their picks...