Eichel for prospects

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
24	81 500 000 $	72 025 791 $	1 487 500 $	4 337 500 $	9 474 209 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Skinner, Jeff 9 000 000 $9 000 000 $ AG, AD NMC UFA - 7	Rossi, Marco 925 000 $925 000 $ C RFA - 5	Okposo, Kyle 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ AD M-NTC UFA - 3
Hall, Taylor 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ AG NMC UFA - 1	Cozens, Dylan 894 167 $894 167 $ (850 000 $$850K) C, AG UFA - 3	Reinhart, Sam 5 200 000 $5 200 000 $ AD UFA - 1
Olofsson, Victor 3 050 000 $3 050 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 2	Staal, Eric 1 625 000 $1 625 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 1	Rieder, Tobias 700 000 $700 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
Sheahan, Riley 700 000 $700 000 $ AG, C UFA - 1	Eakin, Cody 2 250 000 $2 250 000 $ C UFA - 2
	Thompson, Tage 1 400 000 $1 400 000 $ C UFA - 3
	Mittelstadt, Casey 874 125 $874 125 $ AG, C RFA - 1
	Lazar, Curtis 800 000 $800 000 $ AD, C UFA - 2

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Montour, Brandon 3 850 000 $3 850 000 $ DD UFA - 1	Ristolainen, Rasmus 5 400 000 $5 400 000 $ DD UFA - 2	Hutton, Carter 2 750 000 $2 750 000 $ G UFA - 1
Dahlin, Rasmus 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 850 000 $$3M) DG/DD UFA - 1	Miller, Colin 3 875 000 $3 875 000 $ DD UFA - 2	Johansson, Jonas 700 000 $700 000 $ G UFA - 1
Bryson, Jacob 889 166 $889 166 $ DG/DD RFA - 2	Jokiharju, Henri 925 000 $925 000 $ (637 500 $$638K) DD RFA - 1
Dumba, Matt 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ DD UFA - 3	Irwin, Matt 700 000 $700 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 1

28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 39

#26

Mediumyeet

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Quoting: TanSor

I agree, that seems ballpark to me even if I'm not sure I'd pay that, but I still think Buffalo would require Fiala or Kaprizov as part of the deal. Our organization is really high on Rossi.

Quoting: Lsendel3

Maybe. If they trade Eichel they need to think long term. Those are now guys, and counter productive for the wild to trade them if acquiring Eichel imo

Exactly. Rossi is valued high by Minnesota for good reason which is why he is basically the centrepiece of this deal for Buffalo. This allows Minnesota to become contenders because they don’t give up a roster player outside of dumba and it creates a really strong young core of prospects for Buffalo going forward. Cozens, Rossi, boldy, dahlin, mittlestadt (jury is still out on him), + an extra 1st and whatever they get for dumba.

To me moving Eichel would be a decision to rebuild rather than get someone like Fiala (who is great) but will likely be in his late 20’s when this team is hopefully becoming competitive.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 41

#27

TanSor

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Quoting: Lsendel3

I get that, but if I’m KA and the green light is on, Rossi is a must in an Eichel trade otherwise he won’t be a wild. The conversation would be as simple as that for me.

Quoting: wabit

The organization can be high on a prospect, but those blinders come off when you're looking at a player the quality of Eichel.

Don't get me wrong, I'd move Rossi for Eichel. Whether or not Guerin would is hard to say, maybe he would. that said I don't think Buffalo is as high on him as the Wild are. Remember, they took Quinn over Rossi at the draft.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 47

#28

Lsendel3

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Quoting: TanSor

Don't get me wrong, I'd move Rossi for Eichel. Whether or not Guerin would is hard to say, maybe he would. that said I don't think Buffalo is as high on him as the Wild are. Remember, they took Quinn over Rossi at the draft.

Word is they were just enamored with Quinn’s upside. Came down to either Rossi or Quinn and while Rossi had shown more at this point, Quinn really focused on hockey only a year ago (training, eating, all of it). The first year he does that he explodes. I think they were high on Rossi they just saw that.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 49

#29

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Quoting: wabit

It would have to be an offseason trade. Dumba being gone is about the only cap that works for MN. Dumba does nothing for BUF though.

$10m in space is hard to come up with for MN. From MN that's MarJo + Bonino/Rask + Bjugstad; those guys and $7.50 with get you a coffee and a donut.

It would be in the off-season before the expansion. Bugstad, bonino, johansson, Cole, are all UFA that opens 14million +6 million from moving dumba makes it 20million. 10 of that goes to eichel. Fiala is at 3million now so say he gets 6.5m on a deal then that leaves 6.5million left in cap space. + whoever is lost to expansion.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 51

#30

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Quoting: TanSor

You're right, but I think it depends on how big of a leash Kevyn Adams has. If it's short, he'll want a proven, young, talented player (like Fiala) to keep the Sabres as competitive as you could be after trading Eichel. If he has the green light to go full rebuild then he might be traded for futures. The 2022 draft is loaded with high-end centers so I have to wonder if the latter is true then Adams would be looking for a first in that draft. I think Rossi might be an untouchable piece for us, even in an Eichel trade. We almost traded Boldy to the Panthers to select Askarov but the Preds sniped him, but I imagine he'd be on the table in a hypothetical Eichel deal.

If they were to make a trade for eichel then Rossi or Kaprisov would probably have to be on the table.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 52

#31

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Quoting: Mediumyeet

If they were to make a trade for eichel then Rossi or Kaprisov would probably have to be on the table.

It would be Rossi I think. I dont think Kaprizov is going anywhere

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 56

#32

Mediumyeet

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Quoting: TanSor

I think we're in agreement here, my point was that we aren't going to trade Dumba just because of the expansion. He's better than Ek and Greenway. I'm totally fine with moving Dumba in an Eichel package but Buffalo doesn't really need him. I know you said they can flip him but that doesn't happen often.

Ya I think we are in agreement. Flipping a player doesn’t happen very often but it does on occasion when the deal is made for that purpose. Usually it’s all at once in a three player deal like the Duchene deal that Ottawa ended up sending Turris to Nashville. But with the expansion I think it would make sense to get dumba and protect him and then make the third team trade after when other teams don’t have to worry about protecting dumba.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 57

#33

wabit

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Quoting: TanSor

Don't get me wrong, I'd move Rossi for Eichel. Whether or not Guerin would is hard to say, maybe he would. that said I don't think Buffalo is as high on him as the Wild are. Remember, they took Quinn over Rossi at the draft.

I remember, and I think that too. But Rossi is the only high end center prospect MN has. I think BUF has to get a center or high center prospect as part of the return for any Eichel deal. It would be like MN trading away JEE and not getting a center back. I'm not saying JEE is the same quality as Eichel, but they are in the same situation. The only center on the team, and one prospect (Rossi/Cozens) that might fill a top-6 C spot in the near future.

You could make a deal around Boldy, Dumba, or Addison; but it just adds more of what BUF already has when there is a glaring hole in another spot.

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28 févr. 2021 à 14 h 59

#34

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Quoting: Lsendel3

Word is they were just enamored with Quinn’s upside. Came down to either Rossi or Quinn and while Rossi had shown more at this point, Quinn really focused on hockey only a year ago (training, eating, all of it). The first year he does that he explodes. I think they were high on Rossi they just saw that.

Ya I think they would still be very high on Rossi they just were slightly higher on Quinn. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have loved to be able to take both of them.

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28 févr. 2021 à 15 h 0

#35

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Quoting: TanSor

Don't get me wrong, I'd move Rossi for Eichel. Whether or not Guerin would is hard to say, maybe he would. that said I don't think Buffalo is as high on him as the Wild are. Remember, they took Quinn over Rossi at the draft.

Quoting: Lsendel3

Word is they were just enamored with Quinn’s upside. Came down to either Rossi or Quinn and while Rossi had shown more at this point, Quinn really focused on hockey only a year ago (training, eating, all of it). The first year he does that he explodes. I think they were high on Rossi they just saw that.

Quoting: TanSor

It would be Rossi I think. I dont think Kaprizov is going anywhere

I agree I think an eichel package has to include Rossi. And I don’t see Minnesota wanting to trade kaprisov or Fiala when they’re getting eichel. Like someone said in here, that would be somewhat counter intuitive if they have the pieces to make the deal with non roster players.

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28 févr. 2021 à 15 h 53

#36

Boomer125

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Is it Eichels ability to drag a team into the playoffs that make him so valuable?

28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 1

#37

sabres89

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Quoting: wabit

It would have to be an offseason trade. Dumba being gone is about the only cap that works for MN. Dumba does nothing for BUF though.

$10m in space is hard to come up with for MN. From MN that's MarJo + Bonino/Rask + Bjugstad; those guys and $7.50 with get you a coffee and a donut.

I can respect that salary most likely has to come back to facilitate adding a 10 million dollar player, but for the love of god dont give us back marcus johansson.

28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 10

#38

wabit

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Quoting: sabres89

I can respect that salary most likely has to come back to facilitate adding a 10 million dollar player, but for the love of god dont give us back marcus johansson.

He would pretty much have to be going back to BUF to make the cap work for the season. It would be a choice between MarJo and Rask going to BUF. You'd take likely MarJo because you'd just be done with his $4m cap hit after the season where Rask has another year on his.

Although Rask might be more interesting now that Kaprizov and Zucc are carrying him and bloating his stats.

28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 22

#39

Mediumyeet

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Quoting: sabres89

I can respect that salary most likely has to come back to facilitate adding a 10 million dollar player, but for the love of god dont give us back marcus johansson.

Lol don't worry johansson contract would be up. Minnesota might have to include Victor Rask to make the salary work but he only has one year left on the contract so it wouldn't hinder Buffalo long term.

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28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 24

#40

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Quoting: wabit

He would pretty much have to be going back to BUF to make the cap work for the season. It would be a choice between MarJo and Rask going to BUF. You'd take likely MarJo because you'd just be done with his $4m cap hit after the season where Rask has another year on his.

Although Rask might be more interesting now that Kaprizov and Zucc are carrying him and bloating his stats.

After looking at it more, I think Rask would have to be in the deal as well to make the cap work for Minnesota next season because they have to re-sign Kaprisov, Eriksson Ek, and Fiala.

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28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 25

#41

RazWild

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OK, here's what annoys me about this trade that's being discussed so far.

I think from a Minnesota standpoint, it would be Rossi or Boldy. One or the other, not both. I can't see us so readily destroying our prospect pool by handing over our top two prospects, two top 50 prospects in the NHL no less, not even for Eichel.

As someone correctly quipped already, he's not McDavid. Rossi or Boldy, Fiala or Dumba is already a massive overpay in my book on top of this.

It just doesn't work, we should stay away and build through the draft, sign someone to stop-gap until Rossi is ready to take over and just be patient. Knee-jerk reactions because another top of line center might be available doesn't and shouldn't mean we sell the farm for that guy.

Jesus, have some ****ing patience.

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28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 30

#42

OldNYIfan

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Quoting: Mediumyeet

If they protect 8 then they are exposing Eriksson Ek or Greenway in the expansion.

Parise (NMC), Zuccarello (NMC), Eriksson Ek and Fiala (Kaprizov is exempt); the 4 defensemen; Talbot.

28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 37

#43

RazWild

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Quoting: OldNYIfan

Parise (NMC), Zuccarello (NMC), Eriksson Ek and Fiala (Kaprizov is exempt); the 4 defensemen; Talbot.

Wrong, Kahkonen over Talbot. You don't protect a 33 year old league average goaltender over a 24 year old goalie prospect who has been killing it so far in the NHL. Even if he was playing in the minors you would still protect him over Talbot.

That's just common sense and asset management 101.

28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 42

#44

OldNYIfan

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Quoting: TanSor

"Minnesota is going to have to pay Seattle to keep Dumba or let him go there for free."

I doubt it, we will just protect 8 skaters in expansion.

I'm guessing Buffalo will want Fiala + picks/prospects

Rossi, Boldy and two firsts (2021 and 2022, not both 2021s) seems fair to me. Eichel and Eriksson Ek, with Fiala and Kaprizov on the wings, are the minimum core you'd need to be a reliable contender. Better for Minnesota and probably better for Buffalo is Rossi, Dumba and the two seconds. Then you go 7-3-1 for the expansion draft and I think that you're in good shape after this year's playoff experience.

On a related note, JEE is performing so far above Ek-spectations (I couldn't resist) that I'm worried that the extra first is burning a hole in Guerin's pocket.

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28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 43

#45

OldNYIfan

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Quoting: RazWild

Wrong, Kahkonen over Talbot. You don't protect a 33 year old league average goaltender over a 24 year old goalie prospect who has been killing it so far in the NHL. Even if he was playing in the minors you would still protect him over Talbot.

That's just common sense and asset management 101.

Okay, thanks for the info.

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28 févr. 2021 à 16 h 50

#46

wabit

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Quoting: RazWild

OK, here's what annoys me about this trade that's being discussed so far.

I think from a Minnesota standpoint, it would be Rossi or Boldy. One or the other, not both. I can't see us so readily destroying our prospect pool by handing over our top two prospects, two top 50 prospects in the NHL no less, not even for Eichel.

As someone correctly quipped already, he's not McDavid. Rossi or Boldy, Fiala or Dumba is already a massive overpay in my book on top of this.

It just doesn't work, we should stay away and build through the draft, sign someone to stop-gap until Rossi is ready to take over and just be patient. Knee-jerk reactions because another top of line center might be available doesn't and shouldn't mean we sell the farm for that guy.

Jesus, have some ****ing patience.

/shrug. I think it would be one or the other, not both also. But really if it costs 2 top-50 prospects (as the main part) for 5+ years Eichel then it's something that isn't bad. It's not much different than the Rossi/Boldy + 2 1sts that has been thrown around already. Either way that is 3 1st rounders going back to BUF. It's not a deal I like, but Rossi and Boldy would have to hit the top of their ceilings for MN to "lose" that trade.

Really 5 years of Fiala, Kaprizov, Eichel, JEE, and Greenway (MN would have to go 7-3 and trade/lose Dumba) with Addison/Menell, Brodin, Suter, and Spurgeon opens up a nice Cup window immediately. A Rossi/Boldy window Cup might open up in a couple of years and then everyone is older.

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28 févr. 2021 à 17 h 12

#47

Mediumyeet

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Quoting: wabit

/shrug. I think it would be one or the other, not both also. But really if it costs 2 top-50 prospects (as the main part) for 5+ years Eichel then it's something that isn't bad. It's not much different than the Rossi/Boldy + 2 1sts that has been thrown around already. Either way that is 3 1st rounders going back to BUF. It's not a deal I like, but Rossi and Boldy would have to hit the top of their ceilings for MN to "lose" that trade.

Really 5 years of Fiala, Kaprizov, Eichel, JEE, and Greenway (MN would have to go 7-3 and trade/lose Dumba) with Addison/Menell, Brodin, Suter, and Spurgeon opens up a nice Cup window immediately. A Rossi/Boldy window Cup might open up in a couple of years and then everyone is older.

Exactly my thought. Giving up your top 2 prospects is always going to hurt and be hard to do. Having Dumba in the deal solves an expansion issue and helps acquire a top of the league C and also helps make the cap work when you're acquiring a 10M player. If you could keep Boldy in this deal and have maybe Khovanov instead that would be ideal for Minnesota but that would be part of the negotiations if the actually GM's were tinkering with this framework. Like you said, Boldy and Rossi have to hit their ceiling for this to be a loss for Minessota and even then it could just make it a trade that works for both teams. This would make Minnesota immediate contenders and capitalize on a window that still uses Zucc, Parise, Suter.

Protect: Eichel, Ek, Fiala, Parise (NMC), Zucc (NMC), Greenway, and Foligno or Rask. Suter (NMC), Spurgeon (NMC), Brodin (NMC). Kahkonnen. That leaves one of Rask, Foligno, Talbot to be taken in expansion clearing somewhere between 3.1M and 4M in additional salary. This will allow them enough space to re-sign Kaprisov, Fiala, EK.

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28 févr. 2021 à 17 h 24

#48

TanSor

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Modifié 28 févr. 2021 à 17 h 36

Quoting: OldNYIfan

Rossi, Boldy and two firsts (2021 and 2022, not both 2021s) seems fair to me. Eichel and Eriksson Ek, with Fiala and Kaprizov on the wings, are the minimum core you'd need to be a reliable contender. Better for Minnesota and probably better for Buffalo is Rossi, Dumba and the two seconds. Then you go 7-3-1 for the expansion draft and I think that you're in good shape after this year's playoff experience.

On a related note, JEE is performing so far above Ek-spectations (I couldn't resist) that I'm worried that the extra first is burning a hole in Guerin's pocket.

Lol, I think Guerin has made it pretty clear his plan is to build our center core through the draft so I think he'll hang onto it unless we made a trade for a franchise center. I'm not in love with any of the centers projected outside of the top 10 this year but maybe Brackett disagrees or convinces Guerin to package the picks to move into the top 10 if Eklund, Beniers, or Johnson fall for some crazy reason.

I'd do Rossi, Dumba, and our two firsts this year. We'd need to send a bit more cap, though, so they'd have to take Bonino or even better, Rask.

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28 févr. 2021 à 17 h 30

#49

TanSor

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Quoting: RazWild

OK, here's what annoys me about this trade that's being discussed so far.

I think from a Minnesota standpoint, it would be Rossi or Boldy. One or the other, not both. I can't see us so readily destroying our prospect pool by handing over our top two prospects, two top 50 prospects in the NHL no less, not even for Eichel.

As someone correctly quipped already, he's not McDavid. Rossi or Boldy, Fiala or Dumba is already a massive overpay in my book on top of this.

It just doesn't work, we should stay away and build through the draft, sign someone to stop-gap until Rossi is ready to take over and just be patient. Knee-jerk reactions because another top of line center might be available doesn't and shouldn't mean we sell the farm for that guy.

Jesus, have some ****ing patience.

I agree with you, but if we could get him for Rossi, Dumba, and two firsts this year then I say pull the trigger. Unless we get a top 10 pick and get Beniers, Johnson, or Eklund in this year's draft, the pickings are very slim for center prospects (in my opinion, I don't really like Raty and L'Heureux, Lucius is probably an NHL wing) and we don't really have an immediate need for defenseman or winger prospects.

He's not McDavid, but there are only a handful of centers that can score 90+ points in a season and even fewer that are under 25 and signed long term.

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28 févr. 2021 à 17 h 38

#50

Mediumyeet

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Quoting: RazWild

OK, here's what annoys me about this trade that's being discussed so far.

I think from a Minnesota standpoint, it would be Rossi or Boldy. One or the other, not both. I can't see us so readily destroying our prospect pool by handing over our top two prospects, two top 50 prospects in the NHL no less, not even for Eichel.

As someone correctly quipped already, he's not McDavid. Rossi or Boldy, Fiala or Dumba is already a massive overpay in my book on top of this.

It just doesn't work, we should stay away and build through the draft, sign someone to stop-gap until Rossi is ready to take over and just be patient. Knee-jerk reactions because another top of line center might be available doesn't and shouldn't mean we sell the farm for that guy.

Jesus, have some ****ing patience.

I get that argument and its certainly more likely than making a big move for Eichel. There are upsides to both routes though. Eichel allows Minny to capitalize on their current roster with Zucc, Parise, Suter, and to a lesser extent (because hes a bit younger) Spurgeon by opening up a legitimate window right away and the core group of Kaprisov, Ek, Eichel, Greenway, Fiala are all 23 or 24 so that should be a solid core for the duration of Eichels contract at least 5yrs but it does dismantle the prospect group. On the other hand if you keep boldy and rossi you have some really good pieces coming into the organization that could make them sustainable for longer and spread out the age of your future core but it likely takes 3 yrs for those 2 to become legitimate difference makers (maybe less for Rossi) if they become what is expected of them. That means Spurgeon is 34/35, Zucc is 36/37, Suter and Parise are 39/40 and the only contract that might run out in that time is Zucc. So you have a huge amount of cap locked up in old players.

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Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2021
2022
2023

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
	McCabe, Jake 2 850 000 $2 850 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 1	Girgensons, Zemgus 2 200 000 $2 200 000 $ AG, C UFA - 3
	Ullmark, Linus 2 600 000 $2 600 000 $ G UFA - 1
	Borgen, William 864 166 $864 166 $ DD UFA - 1

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Fitzgerald, Casey 858 750 $858 750 $ (0 $$00 $$0) DD UFA - 1
Asplund, Rasmus 845 000 $845 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) AG, C RFA - 1
Tokarski, Dustin 725 000 $725 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) G UFA - 2
Davidson, Brandon 700 000 $700 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) DG UFA - 1

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