These Mantha proposals aren’t a good look for your fan base.

I think your missing caufield and your 1st in the detroit trade

NO.

Just STOP PLEASE.

Wings do not Domi so stop.
Wings do ot want Mete so stop.

You say he is injury prone, so we take that chance. You say he has never scored 70 points. Fine.

If you make all these arguements why in the HELL do you want him.

You make arguements defeating your own case for us to trade him, because why would you want him.

Stupid plain and simple STUPID

The Jets don't need Armia, which is why they sent him to Montreal and Winnipeg doesn't need him back now.

Setting aside that it's fair to doubt whether Steen would accept that, that offer does nothing for the Blues. In fact, because Byron carries a 3x3.4M, it hurts our cap situation outlook.

Why are we trading Byron for Steen and Blais, because he’s from QC? Come on man

Why are red wings fans freaking out this hard.... there is a hockey trade to be had here, maybe it needs a first in it - but the red wings are a bad team with one good center. Don’t tell me there isn’t a configuration of domi for mantha that doesn’t work, you are all clowning hard

Are you ****ing serious? They've missed Armia big time and were stupid for trading him in the first place, one of the worst and most pointless cap dump trades ever, ****ing Chevy's been on a real downward spiral for years with his crappy trades and that was one of the worst ones.

I dont think you understand we are not trading mantha unless its an overpayment. Now a lot of the trades on here are usually domi+poehling+4th that's not what we want. If you want mantha its going to take overpayment

I think you are greatly, greatly over exaggerating the effect of 4th line players. You seem to have a pretty heavy bias against Chevy if you think he has made a series of bad trades.

I don't have anything against acquiring role guys, but they don't require involving former first round picks or overpaying to get them. Armia's value is a mid-round pick, nothing more. He's not a difference maker.

Sorry if we come across like we’re freaking out but mostly we’re just tired of seeing the same crappy trades like 20 times a day. Unless Mantha isn’t willing to sign long-term there really isn’t a chance that the Red Wings trade him since he’s part of our what we need to start building around.

To answer a few queries :

- The Byron trade’s aim is to offload his 3,4M (for the next 3 years) ; Blais’ salary (and physicality) is more manageable for bottom-6 duties. However I can see how Steen’s salary relief would be short-lived for the Blues, maybe the 4th round pick is thus not compensation enough, even though Byron is far from a simple throw-in, he’s a good veteran with impeccable work ethic and lethal speed; the Habs are too small on the wings and need to remediate this however.

- I concur with the one who said that the Jets missed Armia last season, especially since they lost Tanev (and Trouba) as well. Perreault’s cap dump provides the Jets some flexibility going ahead, while the Vesalainen/Armia+4th help each team’s weakness.

As for the trade centered around Domi and Mantha, I can see that emotions are running high! I concede that Mantha has an overall better value than Domi for now, but the difference is not worth a 1st round pick (nor Caufield) in my humble opinion. I would however be open to add one of MTL’s second round pick this year to the original deal, as well as change Lindgren for a D prospect in his early 20s (Fleury/Brook/Juulsen, ie.) since DET’s D is not looking good... Beyond that, considering MTL owns Domi’s rights for two more years, I would call upon Bob Gainey to take a stroll with Domi in Montreal’s Old Port district to remind him that there is « no I in team » and cross my fingers that it elevates his game like Kovalev back in the day!

Armia is maybe the best 3rd line RW in the league and can slide nicely into the top 6 if an injury happens and not sink the line unlike the Jets current bottom 6 wingers who are mostly junk, Armia is also big, his size has been missed. Should of dumped Lowry's useless ass or Perreault if they needed cap space so bad but I don't think they really did, just a bad trade altogether.

Vesalainen is pretty much a bust at this point, he just doesn't get involved in the play enough to be any kind of difference maker whatsoever, if Armia was willing to sign a decent extension with the Jets I'd make that trade, only thing is expansion draft considerations might give me a second thought. This trade isn't bad, Perreault is very much a cap dump and they get a 4th as well as Armia.

When was the last good trade Chevy made? He's been making bad ones for years now, he won the big Sabres trade yes but he's basically been on a downward spiral since, this isn't some anti Chevy bias talking it's just facts.

Well which are the bad trades? If like to hear them because he hasn't made too many trades.

You can be a fan of Armia, that's fine, but he's not difference maker, not worth wasting assets on that would be better spent elsewhere. It sounds like some of the grass is always greener stuff about an average bottom 6 player. Maybe we should lure Stempniak out of retirement?

Plus I just realized Armia is a rental. I'm sure the Jets will keep the 21 year old with higher upside than move him for a rental that doesn't do much for them.

-Trading up to draft Logan Stanley
-The Mason dump trade costing Armia
-The Hayes trade, the 18-19 Jets were crashing and burning, he should of been selling at that TDL not trading 1sts and young players for rentals that were NEVER signing in Winnipeg
-All the depth acquisitions at the 2019 TDL were pointless, yes only late round picks but still uneccessary and picks thrown away for essentially nothing
-The Stastny trade, yes it was moderately successful but still a 1st gone for a rental, wouldn't Sandin look great in a Jets jersey?
-The Vegas expansion draft trade, could of had Suzuki, should of just traded them Copp or Dano or someone with a 2nd round or later pick to not take whoever they were worried about losing
-The Eakin trade, why did he give Vegas a 3rd/4th for their cap dump? So they could trade for Lehner, will Chevy get his name on the cup if Lehner leads the Knights to a cup win?
-He hung on to Trouba WAY TOO LONG till his value was low cause he had only one year of RFA left, he trades him sooner and the return would of been better
-Are we still pumped about the DeMelo trade? A smallish and slow UFA dman who's probably best suited to third pair D work, think I might prefer to have that 3rd round pick now.

So look at that list and tell me which of those trades were huge wins, sorry I don't see any.
He did great with the Ladd TDL trade and has been on a slide ever since with crappy rental trades ever since.

Armia is a better then average bottom 6 player, he's the bottom 6 player a team should try to keep, the ones the Jets kept are the ones you should try to move and no this isn't a "grass is greener on the other side" take, I hated that trade from day one cause Armia is a good player.

I'm not sure if I'd want to bring Stempniak out of retirement but to be honest he'd probably be better than some of the Jets current bottom 6 players, how pathetic is that?... 😂

I can not see Det trading Mantha unless it is a massive overpay or they decide to completely rebuild. As such Domi being good but short term does nothing for the wings. Its that simple.

If they deal Mantha it will be for futures and the less risk the better. high picks/ top prospects, that will be what Detroit will be after not players like Domi or Mete. And no they will not take it just to trade them on, it places more risk of the deal in Detroit's hand and that will not be acceptable.

It just sounds like a lot of hindsight is 20/20 kind of revisionist thinking.

- Stanley is only 22 and they said he was a project that would take a long time to develop. It's still to early to call this one a failure.

- Mason, we needed a backup possible starter and he was one of the only ones around. Armia was going nowhere above the 3rd line in Winnipeg. His stats are inflated playing higher in the lineup on a bad team. He'd never have that opportunity in Winnipeg as he's not good enough.

- Hayes, they still believed they had a shot at a playoff run, giving up and being a seller doesn't send a good message to a team. But here, you're giving Chevy a black mark for doing exactly what every other NHL GM would have done in his position. Had the Jets won, everyone would be saying it's brilliant.

- Expansion draft, you can't blame him for trying to keep together what was at the time a top 5 team in the NHL.

TDL 2019, as you said were late round picks for low end guys, yet here you're advocating trading a former first round pick that is only 21 for a 27 year old, meh rental. I would bet you would be counting this as one of Chevy's flops if he made this deal and it's turns out to be a mistake as it would be.

- Stastny was a good trade, no other way to look at it. At least as far as TDL trades go.

- Trouba, he had no choice as it would be stupid to trade away half of your shutdown pairing when contending. It wasn't holding onto Trouba too long that hurt his value, it was the fact that Trouba would only accept a trade to one team. Although when you look at the Jets getting Heinola and Pionk for Trouba, right now that is a clear win for the Jets.

- Demelo is a good trade for what we paid.

You really seem to be placing a lot of weight on 4 games when half our top 6 was missing. Which is fine, everyone has an opinion. I just prefer to think more long term a evaluate the deals on what was happening at the time, not simply on, well we didn't win the Cup so it was a mistake line of thinking.

Not revisionist thinking at all, these were my opinions over the past few years and were the same the day those trades were made as they are now.

I said in my original comment in only makes sense to make the trade proposed if Armia could be extended, also if it took Armia, 4th, 7th to dump Mason that's probably what you're looking at to dump Perreault.

If you don't think Armia could help the Jets I think you must be watching a different team.. Lol
The Jets bottom 6 is a mess, Armia would be an improvement over every single current player the Jets have in their bottom 6 and he has the ability to move into the top 6 when needed as he's showing in Montreal, most if not all of the Jets current bottom 6 players have no business seeing any top 6 time.

I think trading 1sts for rentals is BAD business for a team that's tops on no trade lists and struggles to attract better free agents. I don't think of them as "well we didn't win the cup so they were bad", I think they were bad cause they were for short term help and lacked long term vision.

Yeah you can revision history those trades all you want as well but this team is a hot mess right now and had Chevy been more proactive in the past to make moves to improve the roster with more then short term help they'd probably be in a better position today. I'm not placing all my opinions from the Calgary series, they come from what I've viewed as bad trades, missed opportunities and mediocre players kept that should of been shipped out long ago.

That's just my opinion though.

That's cool, my schpeel is just my opinion as well. The different opinions are what make things interesting here. I enjoy the discussions we have. You at least take the time to explain and have a basis for your opinion and why you would do things differently. A lot of people just want to make changes for the sake of making changes or just resort to name calling because they can't come up with a logical rebuttal.

Cool, as long as we're cool with each others opinions we're cool then.. 😎

I just find Chevy's lack of work on building this lineup and roster frustrating and so many defend him with the NTC argument but there's been so many 2C type players traded over the last few years that didn't have trade protection so there was nothing stopping him from making that deal which just makes me question wtf he was doing exactly.

To be fair maybe he tried to get an O'Reilly for example and the ask was too much but as a fan unless we have some inside scoop all we have to base our opinions on is the trades that happen and comparable deals and I get there's some longer term cap implications but that's where moving out some other guys makes sense so you can fit a more important piece that makes more.

I also find his lack of small deals frustrating, not saying some 3rd/4th liner or #4/5/6 dman is going to make all the difference but when I see guys getting traded for mid to late round picks that are decent players and some even with RFA status while Chevy is scouring the waiver wire for free bodies it kind of pisses me off! lol

I do think a change is needed, not so much just for the sake of change but they're too small and even if it wasn't Calgary and they had 55&29 they still probably get pushed around in playoff hockey, they've also been running with the same guys for awhile, it might be time for a shakeup, I just fear a shakeup deal is the wrong guy(s) going and the wrong/easy to replace guy(s) being kept.

I don't think there's one perfect model to build a winning team but this organization seems like it's been kind of lost the last couple years with what direction it wants to go in while the clock ticks away on Schiefeles prime and Wheeler signed to a big extension till he's 37 or whatever, just feels like the pressure is mounting and the lineup holes are gaping, had Chevy made some different moves in the past maybe they're in a better position today.

Anyway, just my $0.02.

Sound argument, helps better understanding the Red Wings’ needs. Considering that Domi would be a must salary-wise and that Primeau, Caufield, Romanov, Norlinder and MTL’s 1st round picks are off the table, what/who could tip the balance? Jayden Struble (LD) + 47th and 97th overall (2nd + 4th round picks)?

Habs Cup window only opens once Primeau is established, in ~ 3 years, as the starter.

Caufield > Mantha in 2-3 years.

Well nothing. If all of that is truly off the table then move on to other targets. KK/Caufield, 1st + would be my guess as to what Detroit would ask, can not see Mtl giving that up. Also they would take salary to make it work but it would not change the ask. If Detroit makes Mantha available other teams would top any Mtl offer without including any of those assets.

Mantha has 3 more goals in 115 less games. The Wings need goals and that's part of the reason they aren't trading him.