Guentzel Is Better Than Marner

Forums/Armchair-GM

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Créé par: AnalyticsGeek

Équipe: 2019-20 Penguins de Pittsburgh

Date de création initiale: 19 oct. 2019

Publié: 19 oct. 2019

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

I have seen this take get thrown around on social media by a lot of Pens fans and have always wondered if there was any truth to this.

Despite having already scored 26 goals and 50 points in the Stanley Cup playoffs throughout his career, many people have failed to regard Jake Guentzel as an elite player because they want to see him manage that success for an extended period of time.

He responded with a 40 goal season last year, 76 points. This year, he's on pace for 46.
The misconception seems to be that Crosby has carried Guentzel, but the truth is actually that Guentzel makes Crosby better. Honestly, it's not likely that Crosby would be able to play at such a high level at the age of 32 if he didn't have Guentzel on his wing.

Now with the comparison to Marner, it's interesting because they are different types of players who both seem to benefit from playing alongside elite centers. However, Guentzel generates more high danger shots and scores more goals. These areas are much more valuable than what Marner brings. If Guentzel played for the Leafs, he would get 11+ million.

Enfoui

Casey DeSmith: 175 000 $ (1 250 000 $)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
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FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
22	81 500 000 $	60 324 125 $	132 500 $	3 832 500 $	21 175 875 $

Formation

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Guentzel, Jake 4 500 000 $4 500 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 5	Crosby, Sidney 8 700 000 $8 700 000 $ C NMC UFA - 6	Simon, Dominik 750 000 $750 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 1
McCann, Jared 1 250 000 $1 250 000 $ C, AG UFA - 1	Lafferty, Sam 767 500 $767 500 $ (132 500 $$132K) AD, C, AG UFA - 1	Tanev, Brandon 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 6
Kahun, Dominik 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 850 000 $$3M) AG, AD, C UFA - 1	Blueger, Teddy 750 000 $750 000 $ C, AG UFA - 2	Hörnqvist, Patric 5 300 000 $5 300 000 $ AD NTC UFA - 4
Aston-Reese, Zach 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Blandisi, Joseph 700 000 $700 000 $ C UFA - 1	Johnson, Adam 700 000 $700 000 $ C, AG UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Dumoulin, Brian 4 100 000 $4 100 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 4	Letang, Kris 7 250 000 $7 250 000 $ DD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 3	Murray, Matt 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ G UFA - 1
Pettersson, Marcus 874 125 $874 125 $ DG UFA - 1	Schultz, Justin 5 500 000 $5 500 000 $ DD M-NTC UFA - 1	Jarry, Tristan 675 000 $675 000 $ G UFA - 1
Johnson, Jack 3 250 000 $3 250 000 $ DG UFA - 4	Marino, John 925 000 $925 000 $ (850 000 $$850K) DD UFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Riikola, Juuso 850 000 $850 000 $ DG UFA - 1		Rust, Bryan 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 3
Gudbranson, Erik 4 000 000 $4 000 000 $ DD UFA - 2		Malkin, Evgeni 9 500 000 $9 500 000 $ C NMC UFA - 3
		Bjugstad, Nick 2 050 000 $2 050 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2
		Galchenyuk, Alex 4 900 000 $4 900 000 $ AG, C, AD UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Hörnqvist, P.		Crosby, S.		Guentzel, J.
	Schultz, J.		Letang, K.

Avantage numérique 2
Kahun, D.		McCann, J.		Simon, D.
	Pettersson, M.		Dumoulin, B.

Infériorité numérique 1
	Blueger, T.	Tanev, B.
	Dumoulin, B.	Letang, K.

Infériorité numérique 2
	Lafferty, S.	Aston-Reese, Z.
	Johnson, J.	Marino, J.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 14

AndrewLadd

Bo Horvat enjoyer

Rejoint: mars 2019

Messages: 10,711

Mentions "j'aime": 11,932

Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones

SammyT_51, Capitalfail67 et Gofnut999 a aimé ceci.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 20

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: AndrewLadd

Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones

That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate

jo_jo66 a aimé ceci.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 46

jo_jo66

Rejoint: oct. 2019

Messages: 128

Mentions "j'aime": 18

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate

How about we just say they both impact their teams in their own way

Capitalfail67 a aimé ceci.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 46

Capitalfail67

Caps fan idk why

Rejoint: déc. 2016

Messages: 11,358

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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate

Guentzel minus Crosby isn’t better than Kap

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 50

ClockReads2113

Rejoint: juill. 2016

Messages: 8,059

Mentions "j'aime": 3,250

Guentzel is a very good player, but he'll probably max out as a consistent 70ish point player maybe hit 80ish 1 or 2 times. Marner on the other hand will be a consistent 90ish point player that will hit 100 points a couple time. Marner is easily the better of the 2 players.

Dan10900 a aimé ceci.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 56

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Capitalfail67

Guentzel minus Crosby isn’t better than Kap

lmao stop. Thats not close to being true

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 57

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: ClockReads2113

Exactly. Marner will get a crazy amount of points, but I think Guentzel will get more goals just because of their roles

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 57

BuFfaLOFaN

Rejoint: juill. 2019

Messages: 9,507

Mentions "j'aime": 6,514

Quoting: ClockReads2113

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate

Quoting: AndrewLadd

Yup just like Jack Johnson is better than Seth Jones

It's funny, Pens fans have been trying to justify that there 25yr old winger is better than the other top wingers in the conferance that are 3+ year younger. Has yhis convo about Svechnikov and I still think Svech could be better this year or next. + 60% of Guentzels goals this year are assisted by Crosby...he makes Crosby better is just saying that he is better than other wingers Crosby has had. Crosby make Guentzel the scorer he is.

AndrewLadd a aimé ceci.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 58

BuFfaLOFaN

Rejoint: juill. 2019

Messages: 9,507

Mentions "j'aime": 6,514

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Exactly. Marner will get a crazy amount of points, but I think Guentzel will get more goals just because of their roles

Points is more important than goals.

19 oct. 2019 à 21 h 59

#10

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN

You clearly dont watch any pens games. Watch them play together and you'll change that opinion. People always say crosby makes all of his wingers, but I dont see too many 40 goal scorers crosby has played with in his career.

19 oct. 2019 à 22 h 0

#11

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: BuFfaLOFaN

Points is more important than goals.

Ok and? I agreed with him

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 14

#12

UpsideDownQue

Rejoint: août 2017

Messages: 8,440

Mentions "j'aime": 6,060

both guentzel and marner rely heavily on their centre to drive play for them. check guentzel with and without crosby and marner with and without tavares for the last 2 seasons

http://nhltools.com/Index.php

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 34

#13

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

That’s a terrible analogy. At least you can somewhat back up the marner guentzel debate

Sarcasm....learn it.

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 40

#14

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

Sarcasm....learn it.

Great response by you. You provided so much to this thread

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 43

#15

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Great response by you. You provided so much to this thread

You’re welome.

Psst...that’s sarcasm too.

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 44

#16

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

You’re welome.

Psst...that’s sarcasm too.

Kind of like the bruins winning the cup? Oh wait thats more of a joke than a sarcastic comment

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 46

#17

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Kind of like the bruins winning the cup? Oh wait thats more of a joke than a sarcastic comment

Ouch that hurts.

Again....sarcasm. ??‍♂️ Lol.

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 47

#18

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

Ouch that hurts.

Again....sarcasm. ??‍♂️ Lol.

Good for you little buddy

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 56

#19

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Good for you little buddy

Now you want something added...here you go:

He was being sarcastic because comparing the 2 is idiotic. That’s not a knock on Guentzel. He’s a great player. But the league is full of great players. If the NHL got crazy and voided all contracts and had a fantasy draft to restock the league, Marner would be a first round pick. Guentzel would go in round 4 or 5 roughly.

Again not a slight on Guentzel. So don’t get your panties in a bunch. There would be plenty of really really good players going after him.

19 oct. 2019 à 23 h 59

#20

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

Lmao obviously I know it’s sarcastic. Clearly you comprehended my response very wrong. It’s an idiotic sarcastic comment because Jack Johnson is horrible, and Seth Jones is one of the best. Why use those players when neither marner and guentzel are horrible? To say guentzel goes in round 4 or 5 is even more idiotic ?

20 oct. 2019 à 0 h 1

#21

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

You think he goes lower than 4-5?

20 oct. 2019 à 0 h 4

#22

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

You think he goes lower than 4-5?

Yup you’re right. Round 4 or 5 if he’s lucky. Are you done yet because this conversation is going nowhere

20 oct. 2019 à 0 h 8

#23

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Yup you’re right. Round 4 or 5 if he’s lucky. Are you done yet because this conversation is going nowhere

Homers. Lol. Sorry bud he would have hard time cracking the top 20 just within the division.

But ya, i’m done. Go put you Pens PJs on. Night night.

20 oct. 2019 à 0 h 9

#24

hockeyfanatic05

Banni

Rejoint: mai 2018

Messages: 3,489

Mentions "j'aime": 1,491

Quoting: Gofnut999

Homers. Lol. Sorry bud he would have hard time cracking the top 20 just within the division.

But ya, i’m done. Go put you Pens PJs on. Night night.

Lol I’m a homer even though I agreed marner is better? Are all bruins fans this stupid or just you?

20 oct. 2019 à 0 h 19

#25

Gofnut999

Rejoint: janv. 2017

Messages: 20,015

Mentions "j'aime": 8,950

Quoting: hockeyfanatic05

Lol I’m a homer even though I agreed marner is better? Are all bruins fans this stupid or just you?

Oh no Bruins have plenty of stupid fans. Pretty sure they stole a couple of other franchises dumb ones. They were just to dumb to realize they were cheering for another team.

And no, i understood your post perfectly. You complained about his comparison. He wasn’t trying to make a similar comparison because that is how sarcasm works. Getting bent out of shape over a sarcastic comparison was pointless, laugh and move on. ??‍♂️

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