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Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs28 févr. à 1 h 43
Sujet: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>Let's say you're Brad Treliving and this offseason you receive a tip that the Canucks are trying to accommodate a trade for Elias Pettersson, who has expressed a lack of desire to remain in Vancouver. You see that Tavares is expiring soon and is only getting older, meaning this team will have a very large hole at 2C. If you were trying to swing a deal for Petey and trying to outcompete just about 31 other teams with interest, what kind of package would you put forward to acquire the superstar center?

I'd have to think the whole thing starts with Knies, Minten, as well as an NHL caliber player (Jarnkrok? We all know Allvin has an affinity for Swedish players). Obviously you'd have to add significantly more to this package as well. Personally, Im not trading Marner for Petey, Marner is the better player and should be untouchable. What else can we even muster up to stand a chance at landing Pettersson? How are we able to construct a roster around the first year of this hypothetical Pettersson contract (~12m)? I'd love to imagine a universe where Pettersson is a Leaf, but I just can't see it happening. Maybe you guys see it differently though, in which case I'd be curious to see the kind of trade you would table to land him.

Here's a roster I managed to put together with Niemela, Knies, Minten, and Jarnkrok going back the other way. Obviously that is a little less than what the Canucks would be getting back (additional draft capital among other things), but I just can't think of a legitimate offer that would work. I'd like to use Eichel as the comp. in this scenario, but Tkachuk is the better blueprint in which case we really don't have what it takes.

<img class="for_img" src="https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1042856800346701960/1212263394246393856/Screenshot_2024-02-28_000121.png?ex=65f13343&amp;is=65debe43&amp;hm=7afc9a66bac770841f3100e1c1e4904d98aceabcdd112ff19db47bbe638ac1a0&amp;=&amp;format=webp&amp;quality=lossless&amp;width=1130&amp;height=807" alt="Screenshot_2024-02-28_000121.png?ex=65f13343&amp;is=65debe43&amp;hm=7afc9a66bac770841f3100e1c1e4904d98aceabcdd112ff19db47bbe638ac1a0&amp;=&amp;format=webp&amp;quality=lossless&amp;width=1130&amp;height=807"></div></div>

I'd first like to ask you about how you feel about this team's depth over the past 6 years.

The truth is...a move like this one will definitely cause more problems in terms of lack of depth, especially if you're in the camp of keeping Nylander and Marner while adding Petterson.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs28 févr. à 1 h 33
Sujet: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>fangm</b></div><div>

2. What is the plan on D? I know there has been lots of debate here about who to pickup. Personally I think that Carrier is going to be the biggest steal of the deadline. He put up 30 points and was elite in his rookie season playing with Ekholm, since then his offence is gone but he's among the league leaders in hits and plays a really solid defensive game. He's small which is the biggest knock but his and Rielly's analytics profiles look like together they would be an elite #1 pair. I think the worst move we can make is Rasmus Andersson, he's essentially a bigger, bad version of Rielly. He is top 5 among defenseman for D zone turnovers and has less hits than Carrier despite Carrier being 5'11.

I see two paths on D; (i) We leave Brodie-Lili, Benoit-McCabe and focus on finding a partner for Rielly. (ii) Tre tries to significantly redo the D by finding a partner for Rielly AND upgrading either Brodie or Lili.

Thoughts?</div></div>

I remember people saying too much is being made of RD vs LD (I remember <a href="/users/palhal" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">@palhal</a> definitely being one person) and well...tonight kind of showed what happens when you play guys out of their natural side.

Before the last 6-7 game stretch, Brodie looked horrible out there but during this stretch of 6-7 games he's been solid...so what changed? He was playing on naturally stronger side.

I don't know about the TDL but RD definitely needs to be addressed in the off season whether it's a trade or signing Matt Roy or someone who can bring stability to that side of D.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs27 févr. à 1 h 36
Sujet: 50Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 5 - TDL additions (Go Big or Go Small)
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>palhal</b></div><div>Speaking of Matthews. Did anyone notice in the game in Arizona, the camera angles. Was it just me, but the by the positioning of the camera (probably closer to the ice), the ice surface looked wider than it does in other televised games. Really looked they were playing on European ice.</div></div>

The cameras in that arena are closer to ice level than all the other arenas in the league. Of course it's also a minor league arena so that has everything to do with it.

Was listening to the Overdrive show and they were talking about if/when Matthews is headed to the Hall of Fame, footage from that game would probably be part of his highlight package and how it would be sad seeing that a memorable moment for Matthews happened in a minor league arena with around 4K fans only.

During the second intermission ofthe game, Justin Bourne joked about this game being a private ceremony for Matthews. LoL

This is so embarrassing for the NHL.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs23 févr. à 23 h 34
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>Lose 4 in a row and we all want the coach fired and to sell at the deadline

6 game winning streak and nobody is mentioning keefe and everyone is ready to buy

what a magical thing it is to be a fan</div></div>




<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Keefe along with the team seem to have woke up after what Rielly did. He finally made some adjustments and they worked. As man it was looking ugly for a while and some of those losses u could kind of point to him for not adjusting or calming his team

Like the one sour game hes got out of the 6 is PHI where they blew a 3-1 lead

But the ARI game was good for him as notice when ARI was getting a bit to strong momentum wise he called a time out to settle things down and it kind of worked. Then whatever he said in the intermission also worked

Then against VGK almost the same but no need for a timeout. Team responded well

Now keep going</div></div>

A 6 game winning streak hasn't really convinced me this team can figure it out in the playoffs.

If this current effort was consistent through most of the season, I'd be more optimistic about the playoffs but this team can lose 4 straight and we'll have some of the same complaints we've had all season.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs16 févr. à 1 h 28
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Juice</b></div><div>Would you guys do Lilly for Tanev 1 for 1?

Would Calgary?

I've been a Liljegren supporter since he's been drafted but I'm just not seeing him take that step. For me, it would depend on how extension talks have gone...but he's not someone that has earned $3m+ to me...maybe worth the risk if that's a long term deal...but I've just been seeing a lot of mental errors recently.

From calgary's end...they obviously get a younger guy that can step right into the lineup with control vs a typical draft pick.

TIme to cut bait or hold the line?</div></div>

Totally understand why you're asking this question and we'll.. it's a difficult one for sure. The biggest problem is Tanev's age and yeah, probably won't get more than 2 good years out of trading for him and signing him to probably a 3-4 year deal.

I was really hoping Lillijegren would figure it out and become at least a rock solid second pair D but right now he's only a steady third pair.

I suppose the real question is what to do when Tanev does start declining because this team as is may still be trying to win.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs13 févr. à 20 h 19
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>In general Keefe's been HC since 2019 and has won 1 playoff series

Granted it was against a team who went to SCF 3 times in a row but thats not an impressive resume. And sure people will say what about reg season. Dean Evarson also had an impressive reg season record with wild and where he now...Fired


Keefe was gifted a team with 4 stars and was able to work with it. New GM comes adds 3-4 guys who arent fitting with his Keefe's system and now hes struggling?

Like if adding Bertuzzi, Domi, Gregor is causing this much confusion for the HC he should not be in the position. Good HC make adjustments to adapt their style to fit these guys

Brad should have fired the moment Berube became available but now its to late. This summer there is a real opportunity for a coaching change with Brid'Amour and Berube probs being available go get em. As I just dont see Keefe as a Tree guy nor does his system work with the guys Tree loves. He kept him to just keep things stable until better guys became available


Like I think this OS we gonna see 3 prime candidates for HC: Berube, Brid'Amour, Sullivan as I am in serious doubt Keefe makes it to 2024-2025 and if he does even with a roster fix with 2 new 4th liners, a top 4 Dman or two I wont have much confidence as he just gonna get outcoached again when it matters</div></div>

Brind'Amour and Sullivan are the interesting names but no guarantee either will be available as of right now.

Whoever takes over at whatever point has to sell the thought of showing up more nights on time than we've seen and more importantly raising your compete level especially in the playoffs.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs13 févr. à 20 h 14
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Yes, same with Bertuzzi and Domi

Like remember under Babcock how bad Barrie was. Then Keefe came in and immediately remedied the issue

I think those 3 would heavily benifit from a new HC.

Cause rn im scared Domi and Bertuzzi go to new teams next year utterly dominate and were just still stuck with Keefe. Cause there is a history of Keefe doing this stuff to players before they go somewhere else and thrive

Barabanov
Kubel
Vesey
Lafferty

List just goes on and it blows. And while those aint big names we soon probs gonna be adding Domi and Bertuzzi come 2024-2025</div></div>

I think Bertuzzi is going to look for a term deal that pays him something that the Leafs can't afford. Domi could be back but also could sign elsewhere. The thing with Domi tho is that he grew up in that building and so does he pass up playing here vs possibly being a better fit somewhere else.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs13 févr. à 12 h 18
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>I think he is maximizing the talents of the group. The roster just plain and simply isn't any good. I'm not saying that the roster is supposed to maximize his talents (actually yes I am, you should want a complimentary coach/roster pair, it goes both ways) but every coach/system is going to have players that aren't a great fit. Acquiring those players isn't ideal.

He hasn't figured out which line he can do that with because there isn't one that exists on this roster. The personnel isn't there.</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>I think he is maximizing the talents of the group. The roster just plain and simply isn't any good. I'm not saying that the roster is supposed to maximize his talents (actually yes I am, you should want a complimentary coach/roster pair, it goes both ways) but every coach/system is going to have players that aren't a great fit. Acquiring those players isn't ideal.

He hasn't figured out which line he can do that with because there isn't one that exists on this roster. The personnel isn't there.</div></div>

The roster is flawed but you know what has nothing to do with flawed rosters? One thing I point to is how often this team has failed to show up on time this season and past seasons. That is on the coach, flawed roster or otherwise.

Remember Babcock? He was fired for many reasons but among them was not being able to make in game adjustments. Keefe suffers from this same issue and it's been glaring for a few seasons now.

Any coach was going to have decent to good record with the amount of talent on this roster but a very good coach finds ways to get the team to show up consistently on time and can make in game adjustments especially in the playoffs.

One last point. Holding players accountable is not something Keefe does well at all. If you can't keep the core 5-6 guys accountable, what does it matter if you healthy scratch Kampf or Reaves or any other bottom six player?

I can't remember who here mentioned that the Leafs get every team's best effort night in and night out....well, what do you expect? Especially in the playoffs.

Nobody is laying down for you just cause you're the Toronto Maple Leafs. Gotta go out and take it.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs13 févr. à 1 h 41
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>

And when you’ve got a coach who has gotten amazing seasons out of his best players and generally done a very good job since taking over, shouldn’t the more important thing be finding players that DO fit his system</div></div>

I think you have to take into account the talent on this roster and how much they were/are going achieve certain successes based purely just on talent, regardless of who the coach is.

Also...the coach is supposed to maximize the talents and effort levels of the roster, not the other way around.

I thought Keefe should have been fired more than a year ago, nothing has changed because the same problems exist that were pointed out more than a year ago. The issue with firing Keefe right now is the choices for replacement are just not as appealing as when Bruce Cassidy was available for example.

How many games into this season? Keefe hasn't figured out which line he can send out blindly and be comfortable with said line settling things down. His words, not mine.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs9 févr. à 12 h 56
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>The funny thing is despite the fact yes his play could be better at times

Rn Marner's on pace for 35 goals and 95 points

For an offseason by his standards that ain't bad</div></div>

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>RipNasty</b></div><div>A crisis of confidence is very similar. Pointing at one being put on waivers is a weird comment to make</div></div>

I understand the stats part of all this. The part people get frustrated with Marner's comments are when the team/individuals play ****ty for a period and a half or two periods and then come out guns aand after the game say "we played a good game".

If you have no problem being given your flowers when you play a good/complete game then ya gotta own it when you play ****ty.

As for the waiver comment, Samsonov was no doubt playing to stay in the NHL. Can the same be said about Marner? Absolutely not.

Bottom line is, yes players have crisis of confidence throughout their career, but...man, compare yourself to your past performances instead of others on your team because stuff like waivers, your salary, and the leadership part of being on the team can really make you look like an ass.

Lastly, of course people want to see the hometown kid win, including me despite how you may feel after this post, just be honest, if you played great, own it, if play ****ty, OWN IT.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs7 févr. à 2 h 2
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>Issue is there arent many Dman rn on Marners caliber that would be offered in a trade if at all. We already saw that with Willy

Nobody was gonna give Leafs what they wanted for him so Marner's probs gonna be the same

Its basically a penny to the dollar trade.

Like Dman off Marner's caliber are what teams lock up then never field trade offers for unless they ask out</div></div>

You're not wrong in saying some of what you pointed out, it's just that some of us expected more out of Marner than we've gotten to date. What I mean by that is, Marner maybe (hopefully?) understands the plight of a Leafs fan and at least some of us had the hope he would rise above the bs between the lines but instead we get for example a quote from him before the second Winnipeg game of his situation being similar to Samsonov's.

One guy was put on waivers, there were somewhat serious questions about him being an NHL'er going forward if he hadn't figured it out....meanwhile, the other guy makes 10 sheets, hasn't once had to worry about being put on waivers and has the gall to compare situations with the other guy.

I'll let you guys figure out why some people have a love hate thing with Marner.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs5 févr. à 1 h 19
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Leafsfan98</b></div><div>I don't think this would be a downgrade tho...

Barzal would be a 35 goal scorer, 100 point player with Matthews... Marner would become a 80-85 point player in NYI...

You're right, this would be Treliving redeeming himself for the Tkachuk trade...

And need I mention that Barzal's signed until he's 33-34 years old? Whereas Marner, if he were to sign an 8 year deal, would be 36-37 by the end of his deal... For 3-6 mill more</div></div>

I said a few pages back that this roster is flawed and part of the flaw is the amount of $$$ allocated to forwards. A potential Barzal deal would not fix that even if he's 3 million cheaper because it's really not addressing the D at all with such a trade.

Ideally, trading Marner allows for acquiring/signing a top notch RD because that is a position that has been a sore point for this roster in this core's history.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs27 janv. à 16 h 42
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>One guy I'd really like to see the Leafs make an offer to this offseason (assuming he reaches free agency) is Chandler Stephenson. He's having a bit of a down year, but he would be a perfect target to act as a stop gap at 2C. He can come in, force Tavares down to 3C, and be a viable center option until Minten is finally ready to take over the responsibility of being a 2C. I think he would mesh perfectly with Nylander, and could be a very savvy addition.

That being said, I'm not convinced he's leaving Vegas. It's a nice thought though.</div></div>

You still want Tavares signed to another deal after this current one?

Look, mostly he's been good through the current deal but this year in particular we are seeing age catch up to Johnny. Even at 5 million, I'd rather just pass on him and just look for younger players who offer speed among other things.

This roster has gotten slow over the years and for a league that is trending towards speed, some of the decisions have to be based on age and yeah,speed and defense.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs24 janv. à 18 h 18
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>LeafsFanForSomeReason</b></div><div>One of the craziest parts about all the WJC stuff is how the teams continued to play these guys regularly and have them represent the organization. There's no way FO's of teams didn't know if their players were involved. I understand they probably couldn't do anything drastic - like terminate their deals - based on unproven accusations, but they were under no obligation to dress these guys every night. It's insane.</div></div>

I watch HNIC every Saturday night and sit through the bull**** that is "Hockey is for everyone" segments they do every few Saturdays and shake my head because these people don't understand crap about inclusion and positive culture.

Am I shocked that teams continued to play these suspected players? Absolutely not...the NHL and hockey in general is so backwards and stuck in the stoneage, no wonder it's a niche sport and why this league continuously lags behind the other big sports/leagues in North America.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs21 janv. à 19 h 5
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 4 - Mid Season Slump
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>aadoyle</b></div><div>I dont see Brad selling as it makes 0 sense for this team to do. They have their issues but recency Bias also be a thing. FLA almost missed but they didnt sell they stood pat but used the fire coach card, same for some other teams like STL who bought one cheap Dman.

Either make a trade for someone with term to give Keefe a new toy or use the fire bullet to allow u to stand pat at the TDL. Or heck do both those be Brads 3 options rn

Like if Brad went and spent assets for Chycrun or Fabbro or someone thats here beyond 4 months I got 0 issues as it allows em to plan ahead for next year

As then they have

Rielly, Chycrun, and McCabe as their LD going into 2024-2025.


As yea as we learned in FA its a world where u can have 4 or 5 targets but end up with one or two and the end result = often overpaying for said guys


Roy for instance could cost us 6.5-7m or we may miss out

We know Brad had his eyes on keeping ROR, Gudas, Dumba, keeping Schenn, Acciari, etc before settling on the others last offseason

Thats how FA works though cant get em all and they may ask for to much or not want to come.</div></div>

Leafs are in win now mode but they also have way too many holes to fill to make the team a true contender at the TDL.

This needs to addressed in the off season but I'm not even sure how that happens in the off season with extensions kicking in and others needing new contracts.

I definitely don't see any way this team being improved just magically at the TDL.
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs17 janv. à 1 h 59
Forum: Toronto Maple Leafs17 janv. à 1 h 47
Sujet: Leafs 2023 2024 Season Discussion Part 3 - Winter Blues
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>NorthernLeafsFan05</b></div><div>I mean I'm not really giving up hope yet. Atleast we aren't buying into a team that we know is garbage. These are the growing pains of retooling a roster to fit a different mindset, like the 2019-20 Leafs. I have no doubt they'll figure it out, and I am a fan of Treliving's roster construction philosophies (that Calgary blueline was a work of art). I can't say that the results this season have really been surprising, and atleast the core is locked up so we don't have to worry about them

I'm not giving up yet. Whether that belief is blissful ignorance or not is yet to be seen, but I think the Leafs will be fine. Keefe will finish this season as head coach, the Leafs will make no major moves at the TDL (maybe a Robertson / Timmins prospect swap of sorts?), and we will get bounced in the first round of the playoffs. It'll be the same old story as always.

I personally like to think that the lack of success recently has fallen largely on our goaltending. This team will be fine when Woll is back. I also believe that this kind of forward group is EXACTLY what Treliving wants, but the blueline is still a long ways off. That'll be the priority this summer. For now, I want to see some strategic long term additions. Give me Alex Texier, give me Brandon Duhaime, give me Mario Ferraro (unless he costs more than like a 2nd round pick combined). Just be smart with our assets, that's all I want</div></div>

I agree with most of what you've said. The part I'm troubled by is $$$ allocation. Yeah it's great to have these top forwards, just wished the organization would have smartened up a bit on negotiations because that could have meant a more balanced roster.

Right now, if the top 2 lines aren't continuously racking up the goals, the team loses because defensively they haven't figured out the "bend but don't break" strategy.

Also I know there's alot of faith in young Woll but especially looking into next season, the team should want a goalie who will push Woll for minutes. The whole idea of "iron sharpens iron".