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Zegras is not coming to MTL please stop

Créé par: Blazingbat11
Équipe: 2024-25 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 26 avr. 2024
Publié: 26 avr. 2024
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
In a way, there's a bit of similarity with Zegras this summer with Dubois last year. Not that we know Zegras is available (we don't), as opposed to knowing 100% Dubois was available, but more in the sense that the cost to acquire Zegras will be similar to the cost to acquire Dubois, as in paying a premium for a player that should be considered nothing more than a complimentary piece to a contending team.

The asking price for Zegras will be high, no one is debating that, but the cost to acquire him will be that of a foundational player, which Zegras simply isn't (if he were, we wouldn't be hearing his name in trade rumors, and he'd be considered in the same core ANA group as Carlson, McTavish, and Gauthier).
So why are we hearing his name in trade rumors??? I believe the answer came from ANA GM Verbeek's end of season press conference,

https://www.nhl.com/ducks/news/verbeek-cronin-recap-ducks-season-address-teams-future-plans

Although Verbeek was referring to his defense (having a lot of lefty's and needing more righty's), I think you can apply this as well to their core forwards. Apart from Troy Terry (and to a lesser extent Ryan Strome) in their top 6, a lot of their future core forwards are lefty's (McTavish, Carlson, Gauthier, and Zegras). Verbeek also mentioned wanting to get bigger and more physical (this comment was toward his bottom 6, but again imo you could apply this across the roster).
So it's seeming Verbeek, to get what he's asking, might be willing to move his most expendable Lefty "core" forward, similarly (to a much lesser extent) to what MTL will probably do with Barron (He's their most expendable RD prospect, so MTL will probably move him to fill another team need).


So the asking price for Zegras is becoming far clearer. Big right shooting guys (Dmen or forwards). So what does MTL have that might interest ANA:

Barron and Mailloux. Sure, both fit the bill of what Verbeek seems to be asking for (Mailloux especially) but although they might have to be included in the deal, they definitely aren't the key asset for Zegras, and would only be complimentary pieces. a key asset would still need to be added.

So what key assets fit that description from MTL?....... Habs have three. Their 2024 1st rd pick (that would be used to draft one of the top RD prospects), David Reinbacher, and Kirby Dach.
And now we've circled back to the Dubois comparisons. The rumored asking price for PLD from Cheveldayoff to Kent Huges was a Kirby Dach package deal (Which is similar to the Vilardi package they actually ended up getting), to which MTL rightly refused (Thank god!).
So if we follow Habs management's past decisions, they will pass on the asking price for Zegras. Stick to the plan, and look elsewhere.

Zegras won't be coming to MTL this offseason. move on, forget it. The cost will be too high and simply not worth it.
Transactions
ANA
  1. Dach, Kirby
  2. Mailloux, Logan
Détails additionnels:
What ANA will ask for


Alternative deals they could ask for:

- Reinbacher + Mailloux or Barron
- Habs 2024 1st rd pick + Mailloux or Barron
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2024
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2025
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2087 000 000 $70 473 750 $1 022 500 $4 670 000 $16 526 250 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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7 850 000 $7 850 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 7
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7 875 000 $7 875 000 $
C
UFA - 6
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6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
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1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
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4 450 000 $4 450 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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812 500 $812 500 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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2 900 000 $2 900 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 3
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3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
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1 700 000 $1 700 000 $
C
UFA - 1
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950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance3 500 000 $$4M)
AD, AG
RFA - 1
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5 750 000 $5 750 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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4 875 000 $4 875 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
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3 150 000 $3 150 000 $
G
UFA - 3
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1 400 000 $1 400 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
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766 667 $766 667 $
DD
UFA - 1
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890 000 $890 000 $
G
RFA - 1
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950 000 $950 000 $ (Bonis de performance750 000 $$750K)
DG
RFA - 2
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance420 000 $$420K)
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 2

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26 avr. à 16 h 35
#1
Danny B is here
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Can’t lie as a Flyers fan that likes Zegras I would buy those two for him u have plenty of other insane prospects already that I would go get him
26 avr. à 16 h 38
#2
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I agree with almost your entire assessment, except for the portion about Dach. I think it's been shown he's not durable enough to be an NHL player, let alone the kind of physical player Anaheim is looking for.

6OA + Mallioux, might be in the ballpark. I think Reinbacher and Mallioux is asking too much, you can't strip out a teams prospect pool of an entire position like that, so if it were Reinbacher, it would be a forward or a pick paired with it.

However, if MTLs not willing to part with an impact piece, Anaheim isn't willing to part with Zegras.
26 avr. à 16 h 46
#3
Banni
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Quoting: GiggywithGibby
I agree with almost your entire assessment, except for the portion about Dach. I think it's been shown he's not durable enough to be an NHL player, let alone the kind of physical player Anaheim is looking for.

6OA + Mallioux, might be in the ballpark. I think Reinbacher and Mallioux is asking too much, you can't strip out a teams prospect pool of an entire position like that, so if it were Reinbacher, it would be a forward or a pick paired with it.

However, if MTLs not willing to part with an impact piece, Anaheim isn't willing to part with Zegras.


Dach isnt durable no argument there but your argument falls apart when you say ignore Zegras health issues and build, play style. You cant nitpick your arguments here. They really are the same player and Dach was picked even earlier than Zegras so that whole sunk cost thing doesnt apply either.

Regardless, MTL and Hughes likely have no interest as they are trying to be tougher to play against. Neither team will make this deal as BlazingBat specifically stated. Good luck getting what you think he's worth, I doubt you'll find another Marc Berge....errr Rob Blake. This is much like PLD at this point.
26 avr. à 16 h 47
#4
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Yes please! Please stop!
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26 avr. à 17 h 5
#5
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You have no idea how much every Anaheim fan fervently hopes your Montreal colleagues will take your advice.
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26 avr. à 17 h 21
#6
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Quoting: Andy_Dick
Dach isnt durable no argument there but your argument falls apart when you say ignore Zegras health issues and build, play style. You cant nitpick your arguments here. They really are the same player and Dach was picked even earlier than Zegras so that whole sunk cost thing doesnt apply either.

Regardless, MTL and Hughes likely have no interest as they are trying to be tougher to play against. Neither team will make this deal as BlazingBat specifically stated. Good luck getting what you think he's worth, I doubt you'll find another Marc Berge....errr Rob Blake. This is much like PLD at this point.

When did any of us, let alone the OP or anyone in this thread, let alone Giggy mention Zegras' health issues or build or play style or some oblique reference to allegedly "sunk cost"?

You have to stop re-characterizing what you hear people say, especially when they don't say it.
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26 avr. à 17 h 29
#7
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Quoting: GMDannyB
Can’t lie as a Flyers fan that likes Zegras I would buy those two for him u have plenty of other insane prospects already that I would go get him


Dach is an instant no go. Habs are fully committed to him. His injury's over the past 2 years sucked, but they aren't connected in any way, and this years was really just an unlucky freak accident.

And Dach's "ceiling" is pretty universally agreed upon by Habs fans that it's higher than Suzuki's, so everyone is perfectly fine waiting for him to get healthy. Not to mention he showed really good chemistry with Slafkovsky. So yeah, I think every Habs fan would rather roll the dice for Dach's ceiling than Zegras. It would seem Gorton and Hughes agree with this as well, because if they refused to include Dach in a PLD trade, I don't see how that would change for Zegras.
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26 avr. à 17 h 38
#8
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Quoting: GiggywithGibby
I agree with almost your entire assessment, except for the portion about Dach. I think it's been shown he's not durable enough to be an NHL player, let alone the kind of physical player Anaheim is looking for.

6OA + Mallioux, might be in the ballpark. I think Reinbacher and Mallioux is asking too much, you can't strip out a teams prospect pool of an entire position like that, so if it were Reinbacher, it would be a forward or a pick paired with it.

However, if MTLs not willing to part with an impact piece, Anaheim isn't willing to part with Zegras.


ROFL zegras ain't worth a top 10 pick, keep dreaming
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26 avr. à 17 h 39
#9
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Quoting: athrin
ROFL zegras ain't worth a top 10 pick, keep dreaming


The only dream here is that MTL can acquire Zegras bud.
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26 avr. à 17 h 39
#10
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Quoting: GiggywithGibby
I agree with almost your entire assessment, except for the portion about Dach. I think it's been shown he's not durable enough to be an NHL player, let alone the kind of physical player Anaheim is looking for.

6OA + Mallioux, might be in the ballpark. I think Reinbacher and Mallioux is asking too much, you can't strip out a teams prospect pool of an entire position like that, so if it were Reinbacher, it would be a forward or a pick paired with it.

However, if MTLs not willing to part with an impact piece, Anaheim isn't willing to part with Zegras.


Generally speaking, everyone seems to be giving Dach's injury this past season a pass, simply because it was unrelated to any past injuries, and really was just a weird accident. But no doubt if he gets injured again next season, it's over for him. The reputation will be set.
As for his style of play. for the 60 games Dach has played for MTL, he is a very physical player. Excellent along the boards and can move people and claim space in front of the net. He is great in transition and a great skater for his size. As mentioned in my last comment, because of all of Dach's "tools", everyone tends to agree Dach's "ceiling" is higher than Suzuki's which is why Habs fans (and from Habs managements refusal to trade him for PLD) are all in agreement that he's not for sale. Even in a Zegras trade.
26 avr. à 17 h 54
#11
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Quoting: Blazingbat11
Generally speaking, everyone seems to be giving Dach's injury this past season a pass, simply because it was unrelated to any past injuries, and really was just a weird accident. But no doubt if he gets injured again next season, it's over for him. The reputation will be set.
As for his style of play. for the 60 games Dach has played for MTL, he is a very physical player. Excellent along the boards and can move people and claim space in front of the net. He is great in transition and a great skater for his size. As mentioned in my last comment, because of all of Dach's "tools", everyone tends to agree Dach's "ceiling" is higher than Suzuki's which is why Habs fans (and from Habs managements refusal to trade him for PLD) are all in agreement that he's not for sale. Even in a Zegras trade.


That's fine that he isn't for sale, we don't want him, he's a reclamation project at this point, his development was mishandled in Chicago, and while this particular injury may have been an accident that could have happened to anyone (not unlike a broken ankle) the sheer number of man games lost is staggering. Dachs been in the league for 5 full seasons, for a total of 410 possible starts, he's played in 212 games. The reputation is already set, he'd have to have multiple 70+ game seasons to break the reputation at this point. Convince me he's any different than Patrick Laine. His style of play isn't in question, I know he tries to play physical, I'm saying he doesn't have the durability to do it.

Quoting: OldNYIfan
When did any of us, let alone the OP or anyone in this thread, let alone Giggy mention Zegras' health issues or build or play style or some oblique reference to allegedly "sunk cost"?

You have to stop re-characterizing what you hear people say, especially when they don't say it.


Really don't know what that ones on about, like you can compare one injury riddled season in a career of 3.5, the rest of which were completely healthy, to a guy who has managed to start just 51.7% of his career games due to injury. Like dude, the numbers are damning.

As to build and play style, yeah, I know Zegras isn't big or tough to play against, my point is he's only worth giving up the incredibly high skill ceiling if we get back someone who is.

And not sure what the whole sunk cost thing he's on about is either, no one today would still take Dach over Zegras in that draft, even after this season.

But then again, I put him on ignore ages ago, and I can't say I'm regretting that decision.
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27 avr. à 11 h 37
#12
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I'll offer a different choice. Keep making Zegras trades!

What we should do is stop taking Trades, AGMs, comments, etc that we don't agree with as some sort of attack, that through power of persuasion, will make said action more likely to happen IRL.

Its a fantasy hockey site. If you don't like someone's opinion of a value/trade, move on..... or comment against it! Who cares, as long as its done with respect.
27 avr. à 12 h 58
#13
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Quoting: F50marco
I'll offer a different choice. Keep making Zegras trades!

What we should do is stop taking Trades, AGMs, comments, etc that we don't agree with as some sort of attack, that through power of persuasion, will make said action more likely to happen IRL.

Its a fantasy hockey site. If you don't like someone's opinion of a value/trade, move on..... or comment against it! Who cares, as long as its done with respect.


Oh the purpose of this thread isn’t to literally ask people to stop posting Zegras trades. It’s mainly aimed at the folks who are trying to justify that Zegras to MTL has a very high likelihood of happening. And at a cheap (or even market value) cost.
Zegras just isn’t worth the asking price imo
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