Jarry's numbers suggest he's not worth what you're asking, especially not from Chicago's perspective. Mrazek is locked up for the next two years and while Soderblom has been horrendous I don't think they're ready to give up on him. If they are, Stauber has been on fire down in Rockford after a terrible start and played well last season when called up. If there's a team willing to pay your asking price, great. That's just not a need for this team at the moment.

Hawks aren't interested in the leagues most average goalie.

Jarry's contract lowers his value significantly. PIT is unlikely to get this much for him. If this were at last years deadline or at least before he was signed to that contract, you'd probably have a better argument. Most teams can go get a comparable G in free agency for half the price, maybe even less.

Hawks no way give up a high 2nd for Jarry

OTT dont want smith, dont have the cap space for smith

the magical FA goalie.....

Most goalies in FA are Old.
The ones that aren't have never carried a full time load or very few and far between.
For every goalie carrying a full time load, when they move a spot is open.
If it was really so easy, so many teams wouldn't be looking for one.
Fact is you can look at Jarry and say...oh other have similar numbers. But none of them were ever All stars for their play not once but twice. He's not old enough to say... he's washed. There is plenty of tread on those tires.
Jarry had arguably one of the worse defense in the entire league in front of him all year. The 3rd pairing has been AHL level all year.
EK and Letang are disasters in their own end.
I mean really, In a game that was basically a must win against BOS, EK just watched the puck go right past him and it ended up resulting in a goal. That's the kind of help penguins goalies have had this year in a nut shell.
If you put any defensive help in front of Jarry, those numbers don't look like that.
Fact is Jarry can stand on his head and everyone has seen it. That's why he's been to all star games. You can't just "find that" in free agency.

Easy no for the Hawks

Mrazek has a better sv % on the hawks this season than Jarry does on the Pens. Hard Pass.

The hawks Dcore is much worse than the pens this season, Mrazek still has a better sv %. Not to mention we have young goalies in the system that will get looks over the next 2 seasons. Jarry makes literally no sense for the hawks to buy.

It's kinda weird how you love talking bad about basically every Pens defenseman - but then also defend Ryan Graves like your life depends on it.

But I agree with you on Jarry. He's a better goalie than his numbers this season. He would be the best goalie on the market if he was a UFA. His numbers took a nosedive when the Pens just decided to take the month of March off haha. And the defensive play wasn't great in the prior months either

That is fair, but you could also say that about most professional goaltenders. Just like you could say Swayman is overrated because of the team playing in front of him. The truth is, he has questionable statistics and consistency, a HUGE risky contract with a significant amount of term, in a cap strapped league. The planned cap raises for the next couple seasons are NOT going to be the norm, that extra cap space will be eaten up quickly for most teams and things will quickly go back to normal, where teams will be up against the cap. So, contending teams will want retention, and rebuilding teams like CHI will want a chance to profit off of flipping him in exchange for giving PIT cap relief. Otherwise, maybe PIT should just stick to their decision to sign him to that contract, keep him, find another way to create cap space, and fix the defense playing in front of him.

that's because I don't watch grave get paid 10 mil to casually watch the puck go by him so it can be shot into the net in a must win game.
I really hate to break it to you, but he's pretty invisible on the ice, he doesn't make a ton of errors, and a lot of games you don't really notice him...which is what you want in a defenseman who's job is to play defense.
Almost every time I see him on the ice and a goal is scored, he's usually paired with Letang or EK.... and they put him in a 2 on 1 or some other bad position.
Like the goal Letang put into his on net.... I mean FFS tell me when Graves has done that?
Everyone here rips Graves and turns a blind eye to defensive murder because of a name on a jersey or some obsession. Meanwhile, he's the only non- F up defenseman they have.

I'm not saying this is "good" for chicago, or "bad" for chicago. I could give a F. But don't come posting about the magical FA goalie that there isn't out there. That's a unicorn.
IF he's available, and no one knows that he is or isn't. He's instantly better than anything on the market. Period. Because what's on the market, as typical, isn't all that good. It's actually a lot of very old goalies that no one really looks at like it's a viable solution to their issues especially for any length of time past 1 season.
Most teams keep their starting goalie. They aren't out there letting them walk. If they got a really good backup or prospect, then someone is usually traded out before they can ever hit FA.
Like the list of goalies the penguins have moved out over the last few years. Not just MAF or Murray either I mean like Clang, etc..... Prospect no room and out the door.
So you can go on about "questionable" what ever that means, but he's a 2x all star which means he can play an he's only 28. You can't find that in FA.

I never said it did.
what I said was, don't tell me about the unicorn magical FA goalie that doesn't exist.

lol. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the biggest homer on cap friendly. You just can't help yourself, can you. You are wrong, dude. Get over it.

The Pens give up less shot attempts, scoring chances, expected goals, and high danger shots with Karlsson on the ice than Graves. I'm not saying Karlsson is good defensively, just pointing out that your argument is flawed.

Unfortunately you do notice him - making a lot of errors. What you described is basically Chad Ruhwedel, not Ryan Graves.

Yeah of course he's paired with them - when he's not getting demoted of course. And there you go just making stuff up again haha.

Letang never put a goal into his own net. Ironically Graves has haha. He did it against the Stars. We rip Graves for good reason, and don't turn a blind eye to defensive murder. No - he's not. You're the only one here who seems to be turning a blind eye because of the name on the jersey or some obsession. The rest of us are just living in reality.

yeah, because they hide him in the Ozone every chance they get. Pretty hard to get shots in when you don't have the puck.
I mean really do you watch the games?
Letang did put the puck in his own net.
I believe he was on the ice with Malkin when that one happened as well.
The two of them playing "catch"

But lets be clear about it. Trading Graves, you will be right back where you are again next season. Wondering why nothing changed without fixing the real issues.
People did the same thing to Dumo last year. Oh he's horrible...... Goes to SEA and plays fine.
Then you wonder why you don't have a shutdown defenseman anymore who can actually help in his own end.

sure thing there, yet no one has heard the name of your magical unicorn better than him FA.

They don't "hide them in the ozone" - they are the top pairing dmen and are offensively gifted. That's like saying they "hide Crosby in the ozone", or any top pairing defenseman for that matter.. Also, Letang has a higher defensive zone shift start % than Graves according to MoneyPuck and EK is only 4% less - so your point is moot anyway.

I do - do you? Because your comments say otherwise.

Letang didn't put the puck in his own net. This is just a factually incorrect statement. Malkin did.

Or you could spend that money to improve the team - which would be fixing the issue that is Ryan Graves and his contract. Yeah - Dumo was horrible last year. He makes less money and significantly less term and has been "fine" in a sheltered 3rd pairing role. That's not what we signed Graves to do. Dumo wasn't a shutdown defenseman last year - and Graves clearly isn't a shutdown defenseman based on this year - or any year for that matter. So no, we won't be wondering that

This is like saying they didn't hide Shultz in the Ozone because he was "offensively gifted" and not the fact that he was inept at playing defense and everyone knew it.
Some guys are sheltered in the Ozone. That's just the way it is.
This is why 2 offensive guys who don't play defense well don't work on the same team. SJS EK and Burns... now EK and Letang... it's the same problem. As you can't keep both out the Dzone.
Given Letang is better on defense than Burns was, but he's still very much prone to errors and lapses. He frequently leaves his partner and goalie exposed.

It's not the same as saying hide crosby in the Ozone.... If they really need a PK stop, they have put Crosby out there.
If they really need a PK stop, they aren't putting EK out there and you know that's true.
One is an all around player, the other is a liability in his own end.

hockey ref.. has 5v5
Letang 48%
Graves 58%

I didn't look at all situations, because that's not a telling stat for several reasons. 1 being Graves can split PK with MP.
Who's Letang going to split with? Not EK....the 3rd pairing guys suck. So I have no doubt Letang probably pulls most of the PK starts because there is no one else on the right side to do it.

As far as Dumo... you chased a guy out who was coming off a broken ankle. It can take 2 years to recover from that. But you run him out calling him "horrible".
you can trace his "decline" to the injury. You never gave the guy a chance to fully recover. It was just "he's horrible, he sucks"
Break your ankle and then try to skate on it. Then come tell me about it and rip a guy for being "horrible".

It took him time to heal. Which he did. But fans here were hell bent to scapegoat him. Even now you won't give him credit for his good play.
Talk about loyalty.
You wonder why I stick up for Graves.
Believe me there were plenty of things wrong with the Pens that year. Going after the guy coming off a broken ankle is least best of options to blame it on.

I already proved your "hide him in the ozone" point incorrect - so move along. None of the Pens defenseman are sheltered in the ozone though.

You can't just say they don't work lol. It would work if they had a 2nd competent LHD for the 2nd pair - but they don't. Clearly they don't need to keep both out of the dzone. Yeah and so does Graves.

Huh? What are you even bringing up the PK for? Makes no sense. Plus Crosby hasn't even touched the PK in like 6 years. So no - clearly they aren't putting him out there.

My apologies it was set to all situations. At 5v5 dzone starts it's Graves 12.7%, Letang 11.3%, and EK 10.7%. So basically no difference. Certainly not a big enough one to help your argument or point.

I didn't do anything. Yes - he was bad last year. That's just an accurate statement. It's a fair thing to point out. You have no idea if he was ever going to recover. And you also don't know how bad he would have been here if he had to take on more responsibility - we didn't need a 3LD, which is what he is now. We needed a 2LD. I will rip a guy for playing bad if he's playing bad. This is professional sports man. You can't just let people linger year after year in hopes they recover after the age of 30. Dude they simply pointed out he played bad lol - there's nothing wrong with that. I did give him credit - for being a fine 3rd pairing defenseman. Loyalty? What do you think he is, my brother? I can't acknowledge when any player is playing bad - but you're allowed to? Makes no sense.

Yes - I genuinely wonder why you stick up for Graves. And I'm still wondering - because you have yet to explain or prove it. There's nothing wrong with pointing out when a player is bad. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. I don't know why you're so adamant in saying Graves has had a good season when he obviously hasn't.

Kind of some one side ism here. a 2% difference in zone starts is pretty big. You know MP's is probably lower too as he's linked to Ek in the Ozone starts. The 3rd pairing, LD is constantly hidden with Letang in the Ozone as well aka POJ. So what we see here is Graves is clearly the Defense man getting the Dzone Starts. It's clear who they depend on.

As I said, this number changed during the year. When they realized the defense was awful and could not be trusted. Graves got shifted to the Dzone starts to stop the bleeding of the goals.

Prior to that, they tried the top 4 pairings, letting them play Ozone, EK-MP and Graves-Letang. But the 3rd pair could not be trusted for crap. Which is how this whole "demoted" bs started.

They hid the 3LD with Letang in the Ozone as much as possible because Letang can control the puck, and the more they were in the Ozone the less damage could be done. They played Graves as much as they could in the Dzone. Which is why his minutes didn't go down, but was paired with a 3RD occasionally (go look at the minutes he's always 3rd or 4th never played 3rd pairing minutes). because who else could play there.
It wasn't going to be EK, as you can see above, they don't want him in the Dzone we both know why stop tryng to pretend he's a better defender than Graves, that has been a laughable argument from you.

The only other person was Letang. So it would be Graves and who ever was able to shift between the 3RD and Letang. It could not always be Letang because he might have just got out his shift.

Somehow this gets twisted in PIT fan base to "demotion"

So lets stop the "not big enough to help the point" it shows exactly what is happening on the ice. Which is what I'm trying to tell you from the start. Graves was the 1 guy all year who could play his own zone.
Not that MP couldn't play his zone, but he was stuck with EK which prevented him from really helping there.

They can't trust the AHL level 3rd pairing.
MP followed EK in the Ozone as much as possible because EK needs a competent partner as he's a defense liability. Clearly you know that is true.
So Letang got dragged down, usually with POJ, sometimes Ludvvig.
And Graves got stuck with Chad or Ivvany or Shea.

You want to constantly blame this guy for a "bad year." Yet his goal per 60 is the lowest, and he was used the most to defend his goal and keep the puck out. With a legit AHL level partner for a lot of that time.
The numbers tell the story, you just don't want to see them.

For the record, there is a difference between playing bad and playing injured. To say something like "no idea if he was ever giong to recover....is really a sad excuse. He was thrown under the bus here by a fan base. That's what happened. It's pretty bad that they did Dumo dirty like that.

I have no problem point out a player is "bad". I point it out all the time. But at least I get it right and don't just throw them under buses because that's what the crowd did.
Graves has done what was asked the best he could as an average 2LD. He did it fairly well. He stopped the goals going in. The oiGA/60 and oiGA shows that. His deployment shows that.
You don't want to recognize what the numbers show and just say he's "bad" but at no point are you showing me any statistical evidence as to it. Only asking people "prove he's good".
Where is the proof he's "bad". he gets almost 60% starts in Dzone and yet had an almost 50-50 corsi-fw. He's a net + player, His oiGA are lowest on the team. He's depolyed use is mainly defensive so his offensive number aren't going to be high.
So I'm waiting for this proof on how he's bad. Because all the numbers show at the very least an average 2LD which is what they paid for.

It's really not a big difference - not one that would explain your point. Pettersson is 12.3% dzone starts at 5v5 - basically the same as Graves. POJ gets the same ozone starts as Graves - so not sure what your point is there. No - it's not really clear who they depend on. And that also doesn't prove Graves is doing well or that he's not having a bad season. And again - of course Letang and Karlsson are going to get more ozone starts. You have no point here.

Yeah you said that. And you have provided absolutely zero proof that is the case. Graves isn't stopping any bleeding of goals. No - the demotion was because Graves wasn't playing well.

No - they didn't. And yes - he can. No - they didn't play Graves as much as possible in the dzone. Graves playing time took a big hit starting in January - so again, you're wrong. EK isn't a lefty so you're comparison there is nonsensical. It's actually not at all a laughable statement from me - it's just accurate based on this season specifically.

It was literally a demotion - there's no twisting.

No - I won't stop - because what I said is correct. He wasn't the one guy all year that could play in his own zone. This is just factually and laughably incorrect. Pettersson is significantly better than Graves in his own zone - it's not even close.

Why does your argument always come back to comparing Graves to league min 3rd pair guys? This is a horrendous point. Also, you should really look at the numbers when EK/Letang play with Graves vs the AHL POJ haha. Yes - EK isn't good defensively. The issue Graves hasn't been good defensively either. And isn't even in the same realm of offensive talent. Graves got put with Ruhwedel because he was playing bad so they demoted him to see if POJ could perform better than him.

Yes - because he's had a bad year. There's no quotes needed there. I already explained why his GA/60 is the lowest. He didn't have an AHL level partner for a lot of that time. This is just factually incorrect, like most of what you say. Ironically, he's been the one dragging down EK/Letang. Correct, the numbers tell the story - and prove me right. You just don't want to see them.

Yeah and Dumo was playing bad. No - it's not even remotely a sad excuse. And no - he wasn't. He was a beloved player that people accurately pointed out had a bad season. Why are you allowed to criticize players but nobody else is? No - it's not bad at all.

Yes haha - you love pointing out a player is bad. And yet you refuse to acknowledge Graves has been bead - which is just a factual statement. Hence my question on if you're related to him or something - because it makes no sense. No - you clearly don't get it right. No - Graves hasn't done what was asked. Certainly not fairly well. He didn't stop goals going in. Neither of those things show that.

I'm the one here looking at the numbers man. You refuse to do so. I said he's had a bad season. This is just a factually correct statement. He gets 12.7% dzone starts dude - not even remotely close to 60%. Hes a +1 at 5v5. He got dragged to that +1. The rest of the top four are +6, +8, and +19 at 5v5. He has a negative Corsi - 49% at 5v5. The rest of the top 4 are 51%, 52%, and 54%. No - the numbers do not show that. His Jfreshhockey player card has him at 17% offensive WAR and 29% defensive WAR. And where's your proof? All you have is GA/60 which I already proved is because of his abnormally high on ice sv%

Just to add even more proof - look at Letang and EK combined numbers when playing with Pettersson vs Graves vs POJ.

Pettersson:
+18
52.5 xGF
53% SCF

Graves:
-2
50% xGF
49.5 SCF%

POJ:
-1
49% xGF
50 SCF%

So EK/Letang are doing as well with Mr AHL POJ as they are with big contract Ryan Graves. And yet you'll argue that POJ is an AHLer and Graves is having a good season for his contract. And where's your proof? All you have is GA/60 which I already proved is because of his abnormally high on ice sv%

Lets look at your stats first.
his corsi is almost 50%, he does as hockey-ref show get 58% of his starts in dzone.
that's about what you should expect there. It's average. No other top 4 is getting those dzone starts.
Is that it?
lets do some comparable around the league.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/oleksja01.html Jamie Oleksiak
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/romanal01.html Alexander Romanov
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/w/walkese01.html Sean Walker
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lindees01.html Esa Lindell 5.8 mil
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/l/lauzoje01.html Jeremy Lauzon
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mcnabbr01.html Brayden McNabb
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gavrivl01.html Gavrikov, Vladislav 5.8 mil
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/orlovdm01.html Dmitry Orlov 7.7 mil



I picked those almost random. Some I had to pass on, low number of games, or I knew they were not 2LD like on PHL who traded their 2LD to COL.
It's 1/4 the league. Depth chart has them as 2LD.
It's from a mix of team roughly same level as the penguins some teams are better. I tried not to take bottom teams as their stats might be a bit bias against the defensemen.
Graves number are roughly average for a 2LD. You can see so above.
There are 1 or 2 who are better defenseman than Graves. There is no doubt Orlov is a better defenseman than Graves. He is also getting 7.7 mil per.
One could argue some of Gavrikov stats have him as a slight improvement. He's getting 5.8 mil per.

You are going to have to do better on your statistical arguments. As you got an average 2LD there, on an average 2LD salary.
Jamie Oleksiak is one of the closest comparable. Big, defensive defenseman, roughly same salary. Near identical numbers.
You don't here SEA fans slamming him all day long every day.

Try again.