Retain on Graves for 5 years? Are you familiar with the robot term Does Not Compute

My brother in Christ the Pens aren't retaining 5 1/2 years on the Gravedigger! 😁

Go away PIT

You have nothing for anyone

"Have nothing for anyone" *continues to see cap friendly's with trades for Crosby Karlsson Malkin Letang Guentzel Rust Jarry Pettersson Nedeljkovic DOC*

Devils pass on that imo. Cant afford to lose bahl rn without another LD coming back

I'll be very happy when this season is over.

Why?

No more Fantasyland Jeff Carter trades! 😁

what are you going to do at the end of the season when there are no trades made by the penguins?? lol

Everyone declines and the penguins are not going to retain on Smith and Graves.

No thanks. And by the way, you guys do realize that trading off players you JUST signed as UFAs is a great way to stop getting any UFAs to sign with you.

Blues accept Graves at $3m per easily. It’s not going to happen but they would. Ignore Midnight - he’s bitter for some reason

GRAVES ISN’T GETTING TRADED

Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, but I don't think that's the smart move. He's not the type we need. I'd rather do nothing than do the wrong thing. Leddy should have taught everyone that lesson.

Never bitter

Simply direct

Not for everyone

you have a league where Jack Johnson still has a job defense is needed everywhere to the point the penguins got 2 AHL level players on their 3rd and yet you think you have to retain on Graves and not even get a 1st back.
You could move him no retention and get a 1st. Because the need for defense is that great in the league.

Trading out draft picks is a total waste of time for this team.
Smith is worth more than what your getting. It's best to keep a player like that in a contract year anyway.

You couldn’t move graves without retention for future considerations. If teams wanted graves at 4.5 million x 6 they’d have signed him in free agency. Now he’s been very disappointing and his value has dropped into the negatives

non of that is true.
Him being in the wrong system doesn't mean he has no value.
A quick look at the history of defense man trades and signings clearly states otherwise.
You are part of the same people who said things like you'll never move Matheson or Gudbranson.
Or that Cody Ceci had no value.... and yet there they were traded and are still playing in the league.

There is such a lack of defensemen in the NHL that even Graves, who is much better than your typical cap friendly poor evaluation, has a ton of value.
There are much worse defense men in the league some of them making way more than Graves.

Ceci wasn't traded for anything of value.
Matheson wasn't traded for any meaningful value
Gudbranson wasn't traded for any meaningful value

Which team wants graves at more than 4.5 mill, and now still wants him after he's quite frankly sucked.

Lets be really clear about this.
Those players that you say were not traded for any "meaningful" value.....were always said to be completely untradeable cap dumps and it would COST the penguins a 1st to move them.
Which says a lot about how people on here have 0 clue about player value and completely and totally fail to understand the defense market.
Hell none of them were to ever get another contract again ever!!

But you know what, CBJ signed Guddy to a $4 mil x 4 deal next year. So don't come at me with "which team wants graves at 4.5 mil" because if guddy can get a 4x4 contract moving Graves for assets ain't a problem. EDM signed Ceci at 3.25 x 4 and without a doubt in a few years Matheson will be handed another contract when his expires.

I'm not hearing it and you clearly don't know how the defense market works.
Let me point you to NYR, COL and CHI as all having employed Jack Johnson over the past few years, where every PENS fan would tell you how extraordinarily bad he is as a defenseman. But yet you persist to give this "take" on what the defense market is.

Matheson: you took back an even worse contract in ancient petry at 6+ million who you had to eat 3 million dollars of retention+pay a 2nd round pick and Casey Desmith to get rid of.
Ceci's contract in pittsburgh was 1.25 million dollars for 1 year
Gudbranson is an example of getting less than you paid for him. You paid pearson, and got a 7th back.


I also notice how you didn't include petry himself who you had to both pay and retain to get rid of

But again, all of these are examples of diminishing values.

and since graves starting trade value was 0 (acquired for free as a UFA), his new trade value after playing much worse is less than 0.

Jack Johnson is employed because his salary is dirt cheap. Which is a point in my favour. Teams prefer to have bad players for dirt cheap than overpaid expensive players

ok 1st Jack Johnson employed anywhere is not a point in anyone's favor except the opposing team. He has no business at the NHL lvl and proves my point on how bad the market is.
The fact you can't realize that these "really bad" defensemen are still getting contracts is amazing.

Yes, the penguins swapped players in making hockey trades.....but again, that is besides the point. It costs a 1st for them to move them remember????
Petry being moved for a 2nd has nothing to do with Petry and everything to do with doing what it took to get EK. No EK and Petry is still in PIT.

You fail to realize, that when you want defense....and there is none to the point that you have pay Jack Johnson or some bad AHL level player to suit up for you, then 6'5" 220lb Graves looks pretty damn good.
Which is basically the story of the whole NHL defense market well beyond just Graves, and anyone paying attention the past few years knows this. Because there are "really" bad defenseman getting big contracts with term every year and people at trade dead line pay way more than they ever should for guys who aren't that good or are expiring and not staying on the team example savard.
So a guy with term at a reasonable cap hit, who isn't a "bad" defenseman anywhere near the level of say Gudbrandson, is going to get a decent return.

Gudbrandson is a righty. There are very few righties. There are boatloads of lefties.

If teams thought graves was worth more than 4.5 million dollars (which is what they’d have to think to give +ve assets for him over the next 6 years), they’d have offered him more than 4.5 million dollars this offseason when he was freely available for any team to sign.

Now he’s having frankly a horrific season.

The reason teams are stuck employing 775k bad players is because they employ too many overpaid players.

Petry didn’t just get dumped for a 2nd. You also had to retain 1.5 mill for 2 years.

It’s why the Pens employ like 3 of said AHLers

again you are not listening to anything.
Petry didn't get moved because of Petry, he got moved because they wanted EK. His trade has nothing to do of his value, what they paid or retention. It was simply the COST of getting EK. What part of that is hard to understand. When you have to scramble to make a deal that is what happens.

Trying to give a righty lefty argument for Guddy getting a contract is absurd. There are just as few good lefties as righties. The penguins are a good example of this. Their 3rd pairing is equally bad on both sides. They are not the only team in the league of that. It's just as bare a market on the Left as it is the right.

This whole if the rest of the league on Graves is nonsense. you can say that on any player. That doesn't make it true. At some point a market ebs out on a player and they choose where they want to be. That doesn't mean other teams don't want him.
And this "horrific" season is not that. His Corsi and Fenwick are both at roughly 50% in 5v5 play. He has a higher goals for than goals against. Which means his winning on the ice.
You are making it out like this guy is Jack Johnson on the ice.....he's not. In all aspects he's an average defenseman this year.
Stop making out like he's some ancher. Compare that to 4x4 Gudbranson who's got a 44% corsi and 45% fenwick. So stop trying to make this guy out like he's one of the worst defenseman in the league. None of that is even remotely true.

An average defenseman with term on a fairly average contract for a defenseman 2nd pairing. You want to act like he has no value.

To claim that there are even nearly as many quality righties as there are lefties is just lying to yourself

Gudbranson also sucks hope this helps. Nobody would pay for him today either.

people have been saying no one would pay Gudbranson for years....and yet here we are 4x4 from "someone"

Which is the whole point. The market is way worse than you think in general, and having anyone of any even average level has way more value than you are giving credit.
He's not a dump, he's not going to return nothing. He's also not getting a return like a forward based on his skill level. He's getting a return based on where the market is. And the market for defense is a sellers market not a buyers one.

If the market is so favourable to dmen and there are so few of them, why did graves only get 4.5 million with 32 suitors coming off an actualy good season?

because the market for 2nd pairing defenseman is about 4.5 mil per year.
Like I said, he's an average player who got an average contract for a 2nd pairing defenseman.