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Dubas was a bad gm

Créé par: BasementGM
Équipe: 2023-24 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 28 janv. 2024
Publié: 28 janv. 2024
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Hyman, Zach
Détails additionnels:
Letting Hyman walk to sign Ritchie and Mrazek was a head scratcher.
2.
TOR
  1. McCann, Jared
Détails additionnels:
Protecting Holl over McCann is a head scratcher. No idea what he was thinking.
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28 janv. à 11 h 27
#1
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Trust, there are worse gms out there,

Try signing Karlsson to an 11.5x8 while letting like 4 key players walk
Signing vlasic to a 8x7
Jones to a 5x5

Ur just fine I do not feel bad for you HAHAHAH

Wilson did keep us competitive for years tho so I guess it just happens
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28 janv. à 11 h 29
#2
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Quoting: Letsgosharks
Trust, there are worse gms out there,

Try signing Karlsson to an 11.5x8 while letting like 4 key players walk
Signing vlasic to a 8x7
Jones to a 5x5

Ur just fine I do not feel bad for you HAHAHAH

Wilson did keep us competitive for years tho so I guess it just happens


Re-signing Evander Kane and letting Pavelski go? 😬
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28 janv. à 11 h 35
#3
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I mean, you can not like the moves, but it's pretty obvious logic why the moves were made
Hyman was a 28 injury prone guy with a 40 point career high and he was demanding a massive long term contract that is almost all well past the aging curve point of no return, what he's done in edmonton is basically unprecedented.
McCann was exposed because the Leafs needed RD more than anything and the prices for guys significantly worse than Holl were insane and the Leafs had one of the best offences in the league.
You can pick two worse moves that made less sense from any gm in the league easily.
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28 janv. à 11 h 36
#4
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Both of these moves have justification.

His real failures were his handling of the Nylander Marner and Matthews negotiations (Marner specifically)
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28 janv. à 11 h 39
#5
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Quoting: dgibb10
Both of these moves have justification.

His real failures were his handling of the Nylander Marner and Matthews negotiations (Marner specifically)


and even in that the Nylander and Matthews deals were, at worst, perfectly fine. People are just mad they weren't super duper amazing steals and the cap went flat right after. Marner was a pretty solid over pay, but at the same time no worse than any gm has made
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28 janv. à 11 h 43
#6
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Drafting players was Dubas weak spot.

Can we name more than 2 players he Drafted that are Nhler's >?
28 janv. à 11 h 47
#7
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Quoting: SharkTank
Re-signing Evander Kane and letting Pavelski go? 😬


God i forgot about that one too
28 janv. à 11 h 49
#8
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Drafting players was Dubas weak spot.

Can we name more than 2 players he Drafted that are Nhler's >?


I remember him drafting mostly short players.
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28 janv. à 11 h 52
#9
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Modifié 28 janv. à 12 h 0
The funny thing about McCann v. Holl, was with all the Dmen the Kraken had to pick, League wide, if Holl was selected he would have been a bottom pair Dman for them.

Meanwhile Dubas and Keefe valued Holl as a #3 Dman, not a #5-6 Dman which was more true.

Dubas could have easily bribe the Kraken with mid Rd pick or an elc player to select Dermott instead.
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28 janv. à 11 h 54
#10
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Quoting: SharkTank
I remember him drafting mostly short players.


Sandin and Durzi have been his best selections and he traded both away for scraps.
28 janv. à 12 h 3
#11
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Sandin and Durzi have been his best selections and he traded both away for scraps.


Sandin isnt very good and calling Jake Muzzin scraps is a pretty hilarious attempt to sidestep reality
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28 janv. à 12 h 5
#12
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Drafting players was Dubas weak spot.

Can we name more than 2 players he Drafted that are Nhler's >?


i mean, yeah, easily. Knies, Robertson and Holmberg are pretty clearly NHLers on top of durzi and sandin
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28 janv. à 12 h 7
#13
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
and even in that the Nylander and Matthews deals were, at worst, perfectly fine. People are just mad they weren't super duper amazing steals and the cap went flat right after. Marner was a pretty solid over pay, but at the same time no worse than any gm has made


The problem was the lack of term combined with the overpays relative to comparables.

It's virtually impossible to not get a good deal on a 1st time RFA contract.

Looking at the Nylander deal, he had worse numbers than Filip Forsberg (6x6) and much worse numbers than Pasta (6.6x6), and got 7x6.
Matthews is tough to evaluate with limited comparables but 11.6 vs McDavids 12.5 I'd say is an overpay, and then only getting 5 years is a disaster.

Marner deal is honestly some of the worst negotiating ever. No other wingers had anything close as RFAs at the time, for a guy coming off a 26 goal season.

Rantanen signed after (meaning he was able to use the Marner deal as a comparison), and with better production and imo a better player got nearly 2 mill less AAV.

Good deals would have looked like
Marner 8.5x6 or 9.5x8
Nylander 6x6 or 7.25x8
Matthews 10x5 or 12x8

Honestly, a lot of leafs fans disagree but the cap flattening somewhat bailed you out on not getting term on these guys.

Imagine what Marner, Nylander, and especially Matthews new contracts would have/would look(ed) like if the cap was at 93 million this year.
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28 janv. à 12 h 10
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
i mean, yeah, easily. Knies, Robertson and Holmberg are pretty clearly NHLers on top of durzi and sandin


Wow, you found three bottom 6 forwards.

Oh where would the Leafs be without them.

Good job.
28 janv. à 12 h 12
#15
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Wow, you found three bottom 6 forwards.

Oh where would the Leafs be without them.

Good job.


These 3 players are future Hockey Hall of Famers. 🙄

Yet Leafs fans are always trading them on CFACGM. 🤔

Well not Knies. He REALLY is a future hockey Hall of Famer.
28 janv. à 12 h 13
#16
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Holl was extremely under appreciated on this team. For 2M what Justin Holl brought to this team could not be replaced by anyone making less then that by a signing or in the system. The leafs are actually dealing with his loss this season. They havent been the same on the PK. Same with Kerfoot. He brought an element to this team that nobody has stepped up to fill yet consistently.
I dont think Keeping Holl and Kerfoot was that bad of an idea. The leafs couldnt afford to resign McCann to the 5mil plus he wanted. Thats probably why they chose tolet him go over kerfoot.
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28 janv. à 12 h 14
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Sandin isnt very good and calling Jake Muzzin scraps is a pretty hilarious attempt to sidestep reality


The trade could have been made without Durzi, he clearly wasn't a key piece to that trade.

The trade for Muzzin was for a 1st, a roster player and a prospect (any prospect could have been used, Dubas hadn't signed Durzi so he tossed him into the trade).
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28 janv. à 12 h 16
#18
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Quoting: DJP1117
Holl was extremely under appreciated on this team. For 2M what Justin Holl brought to this team could not be replaced by anyone making less then that by a signing or in the system. The leafs are actually dealing with his loss this season. They havent been the same on the PK. Same with Kerfoot. He brought an element to this team that nobody has stepped up to fill yet consistently.
I dont think Keeping Holl and Kerfoot was that bad of an idea. The leafs couldnt afford to resign McCann to the 5mil plus he wanted. Thats probably why they chose tolet him go over kerfoot.


Leafs fans liked using Holl as a scapegoat.

It's easier to blame 1 player rather than the entire team for playoff failures.

See Gardiner, Kadri, Andersen...

Refs, injuries, luck
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28 janv. à 12 h 17
#19
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Quoting: DJP1117
Holl was extremely under appreciated on this team. For 2M what Justin Holl brought to this team could not be replaced by anyone making less then that by a signing or in the system. The leafs are actually dealing with his loss this season. They havent been the same on the PK. Same with Kerfoot. He brought an element to this team that nobody has stepped up to fill yet consistently.
I dont think Keeping Holl and Kerfoot was that bad of an idea. The leafs couldnt afford to resign McCann to the 5mil plus he wanted. Thats probably why they chose tolet him go over kerfoot.


McCann would have replaced Hyman, instead of Dubas trying to use N. Ritchie to do the job.
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28 janv. à 12 h 17
#20
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Quoting: dgibb10
The problem was the lack of term combined with the overpays relative to comparables.

It's virtually impossible to not get a good deal on a 1st time RFA contract.

Looking at the Nylander deal, he had worse numbers than Filip Forsberg (6x6) and much worse numbers than Pasta (6.6x6), and got 7x6.
Matthews is tough to evaluate with limited comparables but 11.6 vs McDavids 12.5 I'd say is an overpay, and then only getting 5 years is a disaster.

Marner deal is honestly some of the worst negotiating ever. No other wingers had anything close as RFAs at the time, for a guy coming off a 26 goal season.

Rantanen signed after (meaning he was able to use the Marner deal as a comparison), and with better production and imo a better player got nearly 2 mill less AAV.

Good deals would have looked like
Marner 8.5x6 or 9.5x8
Nylander 6x6 or 7.25x8
Matthews 10x5 or 12x8

Honestly, a lot of leafs fans disagree but the cap flattening somewhat bailed you out on not getting term on these guys.

Imagine what Marner, Nylander, and especially Matthews new contracts would have/would look(ed) like if the cap was at 93 million this year.


well, the main issue is that people compare cap dollars and not cap %, because that is what players get paid relative to, so you have to factor that in.
Nylander i mean, his numbers were a little worse over 2 years than Forsberg and he got a tiny more cap % but he had two good years to pasta's one and got a slightly smaller cap %. He was well within his wheelhouse for value. High end of his comparables? sure, but he was still a good deal.
Matthews you also basically cant over pay, there was one player you could compare him to in McDavid and Mcdavid taking a pay cut on purpose isnt matthews fault. an extra 1 million for the best by far goal scorer in the league is well worth it.
Marner's I agree, he's about 1.5 over paid to where he should be and im pretty sure that was management above dubas caving than dubas himself. They were worried about a hold out and obviously thought Marner was better than he was. That's why the negotiations went from "the leafs and marner are super far appart" for months and months to "the leafs have caved to marners demands" in like an hour
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28 janv. à 12 h 17
#21
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Quoting: SharkTank
Leafs fans liked using Holl as a scapegoat.

It's easier to blame 1 player rather than the entire team for playoff failures.


Yes remember Jake "Mr Game 7" Gardiner.
28 janv. à 12 h 18
#22
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Don't forget refusing to trade Johnsson and Dermott for Weegar.
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28 janv. à 12 h 19
#23
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Wow, you found three bottom 6 forwards.

Oh where would the Leafs be without them.

Good job.


wow, you said NHL players and dubas drafted more than double of what you said they did. It's almost like not having high 1st round picks and most of his drafts being less than 4 years out have something to do with lots of those picks not being developed yet, like they are for literally every team.
also, lol at Knies being a bottom 6 forward
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28 janv. à 12 h 20
#24
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Quoting: Byrr
Don't forget refusing to trade Johnsson and Dermott for Weegar.


I remember Weegar Mania but was that an actual offer? 😬
28 janv. à 12 h 20
#25
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
McCann would have replaced Hyman, instead of Dubas trying to use N. Ritchie to do the job.


Oh yeah. Thick Nick Ritchie.

Don Cherry loved that guy. 🤔
 
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