Modifié 12 nov. 2023 à 14 h 13
Quoting: Xspyrit
Even with the 4th, Sens decline easily. Obviously not trading Pinto for a declining 34 y/o pending UFA. Even for Brannstrom, I would be looking to trade him for a similar young 2-way forward
Not that I would be against getting Tanev but the return would be around Kubalik and a 2nd or something like that
Other than there being no evidence Tanev is on the decline, other than making a generalization based on his age alone, all that's fair
If OTT doesn't want to offer up Brannstrom or Pinto and a 2nd + Kubalik is all they feel they should offer, they almost certainly will lose out on the Tanev Sweepstakes
Quoting: Xspyrit
Kylington has been MIA for a while, he has no value actually.
So you're saying more Dube for Zub + 4th which is obviously ridiculous
Brannstrom is good defensively and excels in transition (he plays with Hamonic though who has been one of the worst D-men in the NHL so far) plus Shane Pinto has been a great young building piece for the Senators for a while (think about how you perceive a Zary/Coronato right now)
Opposedly to Zub, who is 27 y/o and has term, Tanev is 34 y/o, declining and UFA after the season.
Age and contracts play a HUGE part in players' value.
Dube is 2 years and 4 months older and is nowhere near Pinto defensively despite having 4 full seasons already (compared to one for Pinto).
Dube has some offensive skill but Pinto too and has already scored more goals in his one season than Dube's career high...
Nobody among Sens fans would consider a 1 for 1 Pinto-Dube. People would actually be pretty pissed about it.
There's a chance Kylington comes back, but it's low and I thought Brannstrom was still out with injury when I posted that. I remember comparing Valimaki to Sandin & Brannstrom awhile back, which none were any good at the time, but I understand Brannstrom has turned things around and has improved and gotten much better since
Yup, Pinto is untouchable as fas as Sens Fans are concerned, I don't have a problem with that and agree of the 2, Pinto is more valuable due to his age and RFA status having 2 more years before he becomes Arbitration Eligible, but to say Pinto is better defensively or better than Dube is today = right now, that's quite the stretch. You would have to educate me as to how/why you feel Pinto is better defensively. Dube's Fantastic on the PK of which Pinto hardly plays any. Pinto has also received more ice time, especially on the PP as well as given better line mates.
If we were to do a deep dive and compare their last seasons:
Pinto: 20G+15A=35PTS/82GP = 0.42PPG -21 with 1310/TOI, of which 1105.4/Even Strength + 169/PP + 36/PK; vs.
Dube: 18G+27A=45PTS/82GP =0.55PPG -6 with 1243/TOI, of which 1030/Even Strength + 111/PP + 102/PK
I'm not disputing that Pinto is more Valuable given his Age/Size/Right Shot/RFA Status/Perceived Ceiling, but again, I simply don't accept Pinto is better defensively or offensively right now, he's just been afforded better ice time and offensive opportunities.
The Tanev/Zub comparison was a joke to show his comment was confusing and didn't make any sense and I agree OTT may not be willing to pay the price for Tanev, but a Team will and Tanev is still the Super Intelligent, Play Reading, Defensive Stud he's always been. He hasn't lost a step from what I can tell, he's just having a rough start to the season statistically due to playing with numerous D-Partners and his main one struggling to play at the top of his game as well this season in Hanifin