This cannot be the real ask? Dumping a bunch of contracts and not giving up anything of value for Erik Karlsson and 4.7 mil retained. I think that if this happens it has to include Owen P, the 24-1st and Pettersson. Start from there and still add.

That isn't even enough for dumping Petry, let alone third party retention on EK.

Grier is dumb, you'd be surprised.

I think a 2nd for Petry is more than fair. It’s not like Petry is putrid. He’s still a top 4 D. Just overpaid. But I would agree that it needs more for the retention.

I wouldn't say dumb. He tricked New Jersey into giving up a haul for Meier and rid himself of a 60-70 pt guy that costs almost 9 mil. Not sure what he has done to look "dumb" but I would say he looked very smart so far. Guy was left a team with a bunch of players that were signed to very bad contracts.

This is the reason why the Canes still lurk…price enforcing or getting EK at some dumb crazy low deal.

The real issue for the Pens will be the cost of moving money.

The Burns trade was catastrophically terrible for San Jose.

Pettersson has already been refused by Dubas in discussions. No team is offering a huge package for Karlsson. Seravelli discussed this on his podcast this week.

Chicago declines

Based on past trades by Kyle from Chicago, @Garak is right. Hawks would not take Petry's 2 year, $12m cap hit for just a 2nd. He'd be a REALLY overpaid 3rd pair guy on the Hawks behind Jones and Murphy. And with Jones running PP1, that aspect of Petry's game is that important either. If a 2nd is the best the Pens will offer, Dubas probably needs to find a different trade partner for Petry.

Show me one instance where Grier was dumb.

- He literally restocked the Sharsk entire defense prospect pool in one season. That's bringing in Shakir, Thrun, Pulli, Okhotiuk (not to mention drafting Havelid, Cagnoni, Pohlkamp +)
- Got Jacob Peterson for Reedy (lol)
- Got Duclair for an 4th liner/AHLer and a 4th
- Actually committed to getting a top draft pick in Will Smith (securing a future top Center)
- Traded Timo for = top pairing D-man and middle pairing shutdown d-man prospects (mentioned above), a young middle six forward with top six potential, a First (Musty already looks like a steal), and another potential 1st
- Picked up a top five pick from 5 years ago on a no-risk 1 mil prove-it deal (Zadina)

I guess it's possible. But, If he were a TRUE top 4 D, $6.25M wouldn't really be an overpayment and PIT would likely be able to trade him for positive value or keep him instead of dumping him. Also, CHI doesn't have a need for RD or the roster space, especially not 35 year old heavily declining and overpaid D. So, the only important considerations here are cap hit, salary, term, and how badly PIT needs the space.

CHI charged VAN a 2nd at the beginning of last season to dump half as much. They also charged NYI a 2nd to dump one year of Bailey who had a lower cap hit, only $3.5M in actual salary, and they were able to buy him out for next to nothing. CHI's roster is now full, and they have essentially announced that they are done for the summer unless there is a deal they can't refuse. This isn't a deal they can't refuse. Now, if you can find a team that actually has a need at RD, isn't rebuilding, and has the cap space, you might convince them to take on his contract for a 2nd.

But yeah, definitely would cost a lot more with the retention on EK. I honestly don't even know why PIT is interested in EK. Seems more desperate than smart, and would cost way more than it is probably worth, in the big picture. Especially with SJS ownership handcuffing Grier, not allowing him to retain the full 50% or take back salary to get assets for their rebuild. If it isn't ownership handcuffing him and it is all his idea, then he was an awful choice for a rebuild, but I doubt he is that awful.

That's literally hindsight. Burns was straight up not good in his final couple years in SJ.
They made that move to make cap space. Dude is 39, no one expected him to get back to a solid offensive game + miraculously turn into a 2-way beast. Credit Rod, don't blame Grier.

Plus Lorentz was the main piece (plus a 5th) to bring over Duclair and Makiniemi is pretty damn good. His stats are actually very good for how bad the Sharks/Cuda are

Yeah. I highly doubt "Grier is dumb". I think it's SJS ownership that is handcuffing him. I think an EK trade would've already been done and they would've added some very nice assets for their rebuild if he were just allowed to retain the full 50% and take back some cap as well. But, if that is his call and not ownerships, then I severely doubt his ability to see their rebuild through.

Yes, 100% of trades are judged in hindsight. And for that trade Waddell exploited Grier. And insiders are all reporting that is exactly how the Karlsson deal will go down or no team will be interested in taking on the risk.

I'm going to come across combative, but it's not my intention.

The defensive core he's building likely won't play in the NHL. With the exception of Thrun and Shakir.

He lost the Burns trade by a LOT. EK trade isn't looking good.
I'll give you Peterson, though he won't be here in a couple of years and won't really have an impact long term.
Duclair isn't a long term solution, he's likely traded at the TDL.
Musty was a steal potentially, but that's more because others didn't select him.
Zadina really came here because of Hertl.
The top pick this year was because he fumbled this season and got lucky with how bad we were.

Most of the moves he made won't help us contend in the long run imo. They're filler moves. Smith, Musty, and Bys might be there when we're better, but the rest I have a hard time seeing.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, I just don't think he's done a good job and has made dumb moves.

I'd be pretty annoyed if EK did go to the Canes with retention.
Just prop up the Canes even more.

Honestly don't want to see a SJS/CAR trade for 5 years.
Same with NJD or OTT.

Respectfully, he didn't get a haul. He got a 2nd line dman at best plus a 2/3 line forward so far. The rest of the pieces won't matter in a couple years.

He inherited a tough position though, I agree.

There's no reason to rush an EK trade. We're in the dogdays of the offseason. GMs are on vacation spending the few months they have with their family. EK is in Sweden. literally no reason to push for a bad return just to get it done sooner. the last time EK was traded was literally during the preseason. These types of deals don't happen at this time of year very frequently

50% retention would be awful. Pitt doesn't have the assets to get EK at 50%. SJ ownership is among the best in the league in terms of trusting the GM in spending to the cap to make hockey moves.

I just explained how it was a fair deal at the time, and may end up even more fair if Makiniemi becomes, even just a 1b. How did they get exploited.

And literally the opposite is being reported about EK. Grier is holding steady on limited retention, and a good return. You're contradicting yourself

6.25 is a bit steep for a 2nd pair D. But even if it wasn’t, combine that with his age and that’s why I say he’s a bit overpaid. I agree that I don’t think Chicago would be the right place. I know people think cause Chicago is close to Detroit but I think a team like Minnesota would be a better fit for Petry as they would need a Dumba replacement. And the pens could probably take back easier tradable contracts to get EK or just sign Dumba to a cheaper contract and forget about EK.
I honestly think the longer SJ waits the less they will get. Carolina has already signed TDA which makes it less likely they pay big for EK. Dumba is still available for teams interested as a cheaper option that likely would only be a 1-2 year commitment as opposed to 4.

not sure why SJ wants another LD anyway. We're overloaded like PIT in LDs

And Seravelli is an idiot, but if he's right SJ is going to just sit on Karlsson and try again at the TDL and not take the low ball offers. I was always in the camp that he's not getting traded... at least yet

Seravelli sounds more convinced that Grier will keep Karlsson at least into the season. I agree that Grier should take the risk and get an actual return instead of giving him away like Burns. San Jose can tank just fine with a Norris winning Karlsson.

- Burns was a mediocre at best player when traded - Lost the trade a bit at the time and honestly, depending on what they get for Duclair at the deadline may turn out to be fair (since Lorentz was dealt for Burns) + Makiniemi has starting/tandem potential
- EK deal hasn't happened so not sure how that can be criticized. There's 2 months until training camp, the time when EK was traded last time
- Pulli & Okhotiuk are seen as 7th D-men CURRENTLY while Havelid, Cagnoni and Pohlkamp are all seen as steals from where they were selected and have great NHL potential.
- Why wouldn't Peterson be here? He's a very good player, an RFA, young & the Sharks have the cap to lock him up - If he can help the team, he'll get signed
- If it wasn't Musty it was Lindstein, Nadeau, Cristall, etc. - This was a great draft to have a late 1st. We got lucky Musty dropped a bit but it was going to be a good prospect regardless
- Exactly - Duclair was healthy in the playoffs and tore it up. He could get a 1st plus if he's playing on our top lines - he was picked up to be flipped for assets (which then you can connect back to the Burns trade)
- Zadina also came here because he'd have a chance in a bigger role, Grier jumped on that opportunity to sign him, whether Hertl played a part or not. Hertl isn't the only Czech player in the league
- Not sure how you can say we fumbled this year - We traded our minute munching d-man, our top forward, shopped around our 100 pt d-man. He understands that we need to take a step back to get better assets