Sabres decline

Leafs fans, just stop ALL trades to the Sabres
It’s not gonna happen- NONE of them
Move along to another team please

It's cute how you think that's the relevant trade here. Make it a 3rd, or a 4th, or a 5th. Make it a different team. It literally doesn't matter; it's a cap clearing trade for the Leafs and who ever gets Timmins will have a high potential defenseman for pennies on the dollar.

Dont mind him, hes overly bitter about the Sabres and refuses to acknowledge it.

Nothing personal dude
But Sabres fans on here have been getting blasted with trades from Leafs fans trying to dump players/Cap that we don’t have any interest in

That's fair and I will be the last one to defend Leafs fans as a whole, but you should judge each trade differently. Is a 2nd too much to ask? Possibly for sure, but worthy of discussion.

Just to clarify, I think you're far from a dumping ground and would consider your roster one of the more desirable starting points of any team in the league. That said, the embarrassment of riches you have with regards to cap and assets should leave you no excuse for not going out and getting a legitimate starter to supplement Levi. I can't think of a better landing spot for Hellebuyck than you guys,

All that and an impractical 20 man roster. Hoping you are making those trades based on extensions....becaause that doesn't happen.

Maybe read the additional details? Also, you need to get over your obsession with the 20 man roster thing. The Leafs entered last year with a 20 man roster that was much worse, it's called maximizing your roster for when it matters - the playoffs. This team is not going to be at risk of missing the playoffs because they chose to run a 20 man roster and there is no cap come playoff time.

Kind of a lot to unpack here
As far as Timmons goes, we already have 9 “nhl” defensemen
Is he an upgrade on some of them? Sure
But it’s hard to see us spending assets on another defenseman when we already have a surplus
*unless that defenseman was a legit top4 guy, but that’s not the case here

As for Hellebuyck:
On the surface, it does seem like a great fit
But the BIG problem is that his contract is up after this season & he’ll be 31 when his next deal starts
IF he were willing to sign for 3 or 4 years, then sign me up
But it seems like he wants a 7year deal at over $8mil per,
and as good as he is- that’s just a bad idea

Don't want to get caught up in the Timmins conversation because I can see now it might not be the best fit; this is why I welcome constructive criticism.

With regards to Hellebuyck, any reward that great comes with some amount of risk. The way I see it, you guys have acquired every piece you need to be a cup winner and goaltending remains the only question mark.

Having Cozens and Thompson as your top 2 centers signed for less than 8 mil long term is dreamy. Having Dahlin, Power and Samuelsson as the foundation of your D core for years to come is unfair. Then you add the talent you have at wing with guys like Tuch, Peterka, Skinner (for now), Quinn, Krebs etc.; add further your wealth of blue chip forward prospects like Benson, Savoie, Rosen, Ostlund; tradeable assets like Middelstadt and Oloffson; as well as your incredible amount of cap space and... man, Bringing in Hellebuyck gives you at least 5 years where you're a top 4 team in the leaue in my opinion. That to me is one of those rosters where a cup is just inevitable.

I understand there's risk involved, but in my opinion there's equal risk in not making a move like that as well. Look at Edmonton; if they had pulled off a trade for a player of Hellebuyck's caliber just as they were entering their window it's hard to believe they wouldn't have at least one cup to their name.

Your roster is incredible, it's time to take that next big step in my opinion...

I agree in principle
BUT
We don’t just need to take a “big step”
We need to take the “right” step

Hellebuyck is likely good for around half of his extension
If i thought he was the missing piece to a Cup, then I’d agree we should go for it & get him
But even if we got a good goalie, i still think we are a couple years away
Youngest team in the league, and very young at important spots- & young teams are inconsistent af
Plus, in another year or 2, we’ll have more significant decline from Boston & Toronto & Tampa, 3 big hurdles in our way

So if we’re still a couple years away,
how many more years after that can we reasonable project for Hellebuyck to be Cup winning caliber?
2 more, maybe?

And then having him on the books for 4 years after that could become detrimental to our chances of winning the Cup


Idk…..
if we did it, i wouldn’t “hate” it
But i bet i would about halfway through his extension

Of course you need to take the right step but that step seems so obvious. You have Mario Lemieux Lite as your 1C, Dylan Cozens who is the type of center you win cups with as your 2C, two elite defensemen on the backend and incredible forward depth to fill out your roster elsewhere. With Scheifele apparently being available as well I'd even try to include him in that deal. You say you're a couple years away but that move immediately vaults you into top 2 in the Atlantic beside the Leafs IMO. Boston has taken a step back, Tampa has taken a step back. If your management has the stones to pull it off then you're a legitimate threat to win the cup. Hellebuyck is a top 3 goalie in the league...

I would take Timmins, but not for a 2nd, give you Brett Murray or a 5th for him. Murray is probably better than the player Douglas you gave up for Timmins.

Don't know much about Murray, Would he make our roster?

He might, depending on your bottom 6.

Honestly not worth debating too much for me, just looking to get whatever value for Timmins I can. Murray's size is definitely intriguing for a 4th line option though, will have to learn more.

Horrible Nylander trade, truly dreadful

Yeah he's a big boy, his skating isn't the best but he's just built wide. Got pretty decent hands around the net.

Buddy you lost all credibility a long time ago. We get it, you're in love with Willy Nylander. Do you realize how much better this trade would make us?

@Stadel
@BUFF36
@homiedaclown
First, great comments.
Very refreshing not seeing insulting statements about the Sabre failures over the past 10 years or directed to the ACGM.
Actually, Edmonton did take a big swing and miss when they traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

But let's move on to the Sabres' roster.
Players who were traded for when they were very young, Jokiharju, Thompson, Levi and Krebs
Players who were traded or signed who had a connection to Granato or team mate Greenway, Clifton with Granato; Stillman with Hinostroza and Johnson with Okposo.
Players who have been on the team for what seems like forever Girgensons and Okposo.
Players who like playing for Buffalo Tuch and Okposo (yes he gets mentioned twice as he moved his family to Buffalo shortly after his signing).
Players were drafted by the Sabres Peterka, Quinn, Cozens, Bryson, Samuelsson, Dahlin, Power, Mittelstadt, Olofsson, and Luukkonen.
All others Lyubushkin, Comrie, Jost and Skinner.
All others is a very short list and other than Skinner are role players.
I will imagine Power and Dahlin will sign for less than expected as they will take the Western NY Cost of LIving discount.
You are correct, Buffalo has a wealth of cap space with a 24 player roster and only the Hawks and Ducks will be lower when the season starts as Wings, Preds and Yotes need to add a player while Buffalo will shed one.

Why Hellebuyck does not work:
First, he does not fit well in any of the above catagories.
Second, the cap space is a mirage because even without Connor some very difficult decisions will have to be made for the 2024-'25 season when Casey, Rasmus, Peyton and Owen are all looking for raises (along with Connor Hellebuyck).
All of the surplus cap space will just melt away when Conner wants his $10,000,000.
Third, the Sabres believe Levi will be their Hellebuyck, and so do I.
Lastly, their window starts in two years when Tampa, Boston and Leafs either cannot afford the talent that they have or the talent ages out.
There will be other challenges from the Devils, Wings, Sens but as you correctly pointed out it is not only the NHL roster that is young and talented but their pipeline is top notch as well.

Every team not named TML declines rather easily because you know they all lose every trade.

Appreciate your reply, here are a few thoughts in response:

Hellebuyck doesn't need to fit within those categories. If anything this move should be in stark contrast to the moves you made throughout the rebuild, exactly because it marks the transition of a team whose rebuild has been successful enough to acquire all the necessary pieces that would signal a move like this.

I don't believe the cap space is a mirage because I'm viewing it from the standpoint of the value (cap wise) you're getting at critical roster spots. Thompson is a $10 mil player today, with the cap going up that contract only gets sweeter and sweeter. Cozens will outperform his contract sooner than later. Power and Dahlin are still cost controlled and will far exceed their contracts.

Krebs' raise will be negligible. Middelstadt and Oloffson are the type of players you need to be wise enough to acquire assets for in a trade, rather than investing salary in them long term with such an abundance of potential replacements coming through the pipelines.

Any trade for Hellebuyck is contingent on an extension. I might agree that $10 mil is too much, but 7 x $8 mil with a rising cap? I think it's very reasonable and worst case would not be impossible to unload in the later years of his contract.

I think Levi is a great talent, but hedging your bets on him at the age of 21 may not only be a detriment to your team, but to Levi himself. Some of the best goaltenders in the league played behind elite starters before the torch was passed, if anything it should help their development for when the moment is right to assume the top job.

Let me translate my POV, Buffalo will not trade for a top notch player whose salary will exceed Tage or Dylan as it could create locker room issues.
Skinner is an obvious exception, but he appears to be a great locker room and on ice team mate.
I do not know if Connor will be a great team mate, but his $8,000,000 will be an issue in just 3 years, less than half way through his contract.

Every leaf fan that thinks there their players have value has no credibility to people like you.

There their he says....

I think our players have value which is why I'm proposing a trade with this amount of value coming our way in return.

I'll be completely honest, this argument is a bit of a reach for me.