To MTL and WPG Fans

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: Cory

This pure rental stuff is funny. Dubois wants to win. Montreal is far from it and Arafay nailed it with his description. Hockey Writers came out and said that their are multiple teams that will be interested in Dubois. Carolina, NYR, Colorado, LA, Boston, and of course Montreal. If Kidney, Dvorak and a late first is all Montreal offers, then I am glad we can all shut the Dubois to Montreal fluff down because every one of those other teams will blow that offer away.

THW say and write a lot of stuff with various degrees of legitimacy, like writing that MTL should be interested in Horvat (in a very similar article several months ago) despite his pending UFA status and them being in a rebuild or the Leafs should trade Nylander for Eriksson Ek.

Of the teams mentioned NYR, LA and Boston are currently very tight to the cap with other holes to fill. They would need to trade away some of their high salaried players to make room for PLD and likely require a third team to do so since most of these players have trade protection and WPG is likely to be on most of these (also BOS have probably the worst prospect pool in the league and no 1st or 2nd round pick for the next 2 years which adds more complexity). Carolina for their part are a very process driven team and well known to be unwilling to pay premium assets for pending UFAs. For them to beat the proposed MTL offer (Kidney, Dvorak, FLA 1st) they would 100% need PLD to be locked down with term or a dramatic shift in management policy. Colorado is more of a possibility but their cap situation is quite uncertain at the moment so its hard to speculate one way or the other.

All this to say that while many teams are likely interested in PLD actually trading for him will probably be more complicated than most people realize.

MisstheWhalers, habitantlecolon et Cory a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 16

#52

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Quoting: DumplingAndChase

Chevy has set himself up for a bidding war between the best teams. Dubois will be traded at or just before the draft to whichever contender offers the most. Habs fans pretend that they are the only team that can make a trade.

IF we OS Dubois how can he be Traded to a contender at the deadline ?
What Contender is looking to OS a player ?Most have used up the Required picks to do so

Friedman went over all this on Tv.
Said that no matter who OS it wouldnt be more then 6m likely as WPG has no leverage.
Every team knows that if WPG matches any OS that Dubois is theirs for 365 days as per CBA to avoid shady tactics like you suggested with Resigning then trading him a few months later.
You havent been able to do that since what , 2012?

You're ignoring Timelines in Which Offers have to be either Accepted or Rejected.
Once Initiated there is no waiting for later , the decision will be calculated based on your choice of action.
CAR tied our hands like this , MTL did it with CAR as they game AHO the term CAR wasnt offering that would walk him up to being a UFA(not that it mattered he stayed anyways)
CAR Matched and Aho's contract wasnt allowed to be traded for a year.
MTL didnt and CAR got KK who couldnt be traded for a year.

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 20

#53

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: jonh514

Great! He's a terrible horrible player and he's all ours! Keep watching those stats and interpreting them as predictive sir!

Okay keep him, he's shown zero 5 on 5 improvement since his rookie year.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 21

#54

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: dgibb10

Don't know. I don't think he's anything special. But he has size and draft pedigree. Hasn't really improved his 5 on 5 production since his rookie year (which was his best outside of a 18 game 2019 sample size)

Advanced stats... The best way to take 6 on 6 hockey and blame one guy for the results.

Not one Canadiens fan who watched him play cares what you think. We're gonna keep all our "awful" players and go on living our lives

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 25

#55

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: jonh514

Who else would you like to blame when his most common linemates were Suzuki and Caufield?

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 26

#56

Rejoint: déc. 2017

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Quoting: dgibb10

Why exactly is dach worth more than he was traded for? He still hasn't matched his 5 on 5 production from his rookie year

2019-20 8 goals 12 assists at even strength with 23pts
2022-23 8 goals 12 assists at even strength with 38pts

Increased playtime by 4 minutes and 15 seconds
Longest Shift time 24 minutes without OT in a game vs BOS where he had 1 goal and 1 assist
Increased Advanced Metrics like FF/CF% by 5%
Everywhere he grew except Point Share's which are down 0.5%
I mean his Takeaway's could be better as he's about 10 behind his 3 year average before that

Overall we're completely happy with Dach and he loves MTL committing pretty quickly to a team friendly bridge deal to prove himself.
Last time we found a 1st rounder with this much Potential and Talent was Phil Danault

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 27

#57

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: pensburgh571

What do you think the trade value of a 1st line center in his prime is then?
Do you remember how Buffalo had "no leverage" at all with Eichel ? Yet got a great return?
another similar example ( dated but eerily similar ) when jordan staal forced a trade out of pittsburgh. It was well documented that he only would sign in carolina. The penguins offered him the exact contract he took with carolina but he publicly turned it down in Pittsburgh. yet even with no leverage they still got an 8th overall pick. A top defenseman prospect. and a direct replacement to staal (Brandon Sutter).
MTL fans are full of it when they act like they can get a top line player without giving up any decent assets.

The Eichel trade really isn't a comparable because he had 5 years of term on his contract, he wasn't anywhere close to FA and in a completely different situation. As for the Staal trade that was a different time and I don't think Trader Jim is comparable to any other GM in the league, he's always done things his own way for better or worse as I'm sure you'll agree.

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 32

#58

Rejoint: déc. 2017

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Quoting: dgibb10

Who else would you like to blame when his most common linemates were Suzuki and Caufield?

Common Linemates?
Historically Injured Roster the last 2 years
We set the record last year for the Habs and this year for the Habs and the NHL with 62/82m on LTIR or IR at one point.

He started on Monahan's wing
Monahan was thriving but Anderson stalled out on top line so Dach and Anderson switched.
Caufield-Suzuki-Dach played together i think 15 games then Monahan went down which brought Dach to 2nd line Center behind Suzuki.
Not long after Caufield seperated his shoulder for the 2nd time this season and was sidelined.

Dach's most common linemate after CC/SM went onto LTIR was Mike Hoffman and a rotation of Wingers.
cs.unb.ca/~mwf/habs/forw_77KD.html

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 35

#59

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: Billy739

Yep, same EV production as when he was a rookie.
Getting more minutes =/= improvement
His FF%/CF% have gone up by 2.4% and 1.6% since his rookie year at even strength. Getting more PP minutes (where corsi and fenwick are generally 90%) is inflating those stats.
Even strength xGoals%: up 2%.

Signing a 3.4 million dollar AAV deal when your career high is 26 points isn't a team friendly deal. You'll see laffy with vastly better production sign something similar.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 39

#60

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: Billy739

Dach had just 9 5v5 points that suzuki/caufield weren't involved in (and 16 total). So if he spent most of his time playing away from them thats a YIKES.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 40

#61

HuGo is a Boss GM

Rejoint: déc. 2021

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Quoting: dgibb10

Who else would you like to blame when his most common linemates were Suzuki and Caufield?

It's all good. I'm saying YOU are right. YOU know more that Jeff Gorton, Kent Hughes, MSL, Nick Bobrov and company about what makes a good hockey player. The Habs players are mediocre at best and the injuries, the number of rookies, the quality of the division, have nothing to do with it. You don't have to spend any more time trying to convince me, I'm on your side.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 42

#62

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: DumplingAndChase

The problem here is that most contending teams don't have a spare $8-9m lying around to pay PLD and/or are already pretty well set down the middle, they would need to move out cap to bring him in and most of the players with high cap also have trade protection (where WPG is prominently featured). Its a bit more complex than just saying team x wants PLD, team x can want him but also has to be able to fit him in.

MisstheWhalers et habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 43

#63

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: jonh514

Got it, montreal GM who wanted dach: experts??
Chicago front office who wanted dach gone: not experts??

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 49

#64

MisstheWhalers

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Quoting: Billy739

Nope
CBA protects players from teams doing that.
Its why teams do "Sign and Trade" deals

What, why can't they?

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 51

#65

MisstheWhalers

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Quoting: Cory

I read a quote from The Athletic's Winnipeg writer about Dubois, sounds like he's more concerned with fashion and his lifestyle then he is with winning.

Just_A_Guess a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 52

#66

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: dgibb10

Got it, montreal GM who wanted dach: experts??
Chicago front office who wanted dach gone: not experts??

Clearly my dear fellow, you feel it is the other way. I see what you did there. You really are so smart. You're just the best to be slumming it with us here on this thread. How did we get so lucky as to have a swell guy like you around?

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 21 h 54

#67

Just_A_Guess

Rejoint: avr. 2021

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Quoting: Cory

I hate that offer sheet option. I have to think if Montreal or any team did that just to screw over Wpg or any team in the same situation. The whole league would never talk to that team again.

That would be a very dirty play and I would think all of the owners would band together to get that GM and owner kicked out.

If it's such a "dirty play" why is it a legal move that teams can do? I'm not saying it's going to create great relationships between clubs but if there was that big of an issue with it, it would be banned. Business is business and if it's a legitimate option who cares? Has Bergevin been blacklisted? Is MTL blacklisted? It's uncommon and you might not like it but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. I fully expect teams to talk to and offer CC a contract if we don't get him locked up ASAP. Would I be pissed if another team snagged him on an OS? Can't say I'd be tickled pink about it but it's a savvy business move imo.

habitantlecolon a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 5

#68

I Love J Boqvist

Rejoint: janv. 2023

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Quoting: jonh514

Take a deep breath, its okay. Your franchise saver can't outscore matt martin 5v5. That's okay

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 8

#69

MisstheWhalers

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Quoting: dgibb10

Take a deep breath, its okay. Your franchise saver can't outscore matt martin 5v5. That's okay

🤣

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 11

#70

DumplingAndChase

Rejoint: avr. 2023

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Quoting: Billy739

The DRAFT, not the DEADLINE.

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 13

#71

DumplingAndChase

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Quoting: LumberJacques

The same can be said for Montreal, and yet Dubois will play somewhere

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 15

#72

Rejoint: déc. 2017

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Quoting: dgibb10

Got it, montreal GM who wanted dach: experts??
Chicago front office who wanted dach gone: not experts??

That said your statement suggests Debrincat ,Hagel and Mccabe were not all moved with Dach for the new GM to build his team.
That was the Explanation he gave after all but F me right for paying attention and not just making **** up on the fly like you have lol

habitantlecolon et Just_A_Guess a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 19

#73

HuGo is a Boss GM

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Quoting: dgibb10

Take a deep breath, its okay. Your franchise saver can't outscore matt martin 5v5. That's okay

I thought YOU were my Franchise Saver! I don't really care about your ability to score my friend, I believe in your deep penetrating insights! Your observations about Habs players are so POWERFUL, the players themselves are actually thinking about calling it quits! I'm serious about that; I heard Dach is thinking about opening a Subway franchise (not too shabby!) and Slafkovsky is gonna be an Uber driver (yowza!)

Thanks again for slumming it with us!

habitantlecolon et Just_A_Guess a aimé ceci.

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 20

#74

Rejoint: févr. 2019

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Quoting: DumplingAndChase

The same can be said for Montreal, and yet Dubois will play somewhere

What do you mean by "The same can be said for Montreal"? They have close to $20m of cap space with Price on LTIR and only Caufield and RHP to re-sign. That should easily leave $9-10m free to add PLD without needing any other corresponding move.

31 mai 2023 à 22 h 20

#75